Espresso Lahore protest

[diwana]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

Lol I would never argue with the great Diwana.

Like I said, there is no law. Do I think the restaurant should have accommodated her? Yes. But if they didn't, or were unable to, then she should protest by taking her business elsewhere. No law, no obligation.

Why keep bringing law when we know she did not sue the restaurant.
She protested like anyone who is denied a small place just to pray.

Exactly...prayer is mandatory. And I want to make sure that I have a comfortable place to offer my prayers in peace, not some dingy corner underneath the stairs of a cafe. *To me, it seems like the responsible thing to do would be to make sure that the establishment has suitable areangemrnts, so that I'm not caught off guard when I get there. * But that would make too much sense, wouldn't it? ;)

None of us here this forum were there to witness what happened. We don't know what the attitude or reactions were for either party involved. The waiter was most likely wrong in dismissing this lady's request, as a patron of the restaraunt, accommodations should have been made. On the flip side, something tells me she was most likely not very docile herself. She very well could have gone postal on the poor waiter, creating a scene in true desi aunty eshtyle.

Moral of the story: due diligence is paramount. And more importantly, it's Ramadan...a little compassion and mutual respect on both parts would go a long way.

Well, then you are completely unaware of what prayer is and what it means to people who pray. Those who pray for prayer reason are happy to pray on train station, park, airport, restaurant, roads etc. Try not to think only from your perspective here.

You are more than welcome to wash the place with rose water or have a nice seclusive place on a red carpet at home.

Those who pray for prayer reason don't need these chonchlay! ;)

She was denied something which should be considered norm in the society which we are talking about. Period.

Try not to bring Ramadan and its spirit in almost all posts you make. Its becoming boring.

[CM]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

Some have stated malls in UK have a place to pray. Above post States while every restaurant does not have to set aside a designated area to pray they should be able to provide prayer space when requested.

Equating an Espresso shops footprint with a mall in Uk - not apples to apples. As for above post - if it is a small shop how do you come up with space when requested.

They are running a business in Lahore where real estate probably is pricey. It costs them money.

Now cant one pray anywhere? Why demand separate place? Isn't prayer about humility and sincerity rather tun making a scene

We don't know details. If espresso staff PREVENTED her from praying they violated her rights. If womand DEMANDED separate place rather than adjust with what is available she was wrong.

Agreed its not apples to apples. This is a Muslim country with its own norms and requirements. Attributing Western values to something that is inherently alien to the entire system is worthless.

Why a separate place? Simple. Privacy. Prayer is a sacred thing and in a coffee shop or restaurant where others are eating and chatting, do you really think that is the appropriate place to show devotion to God?

[diwana]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

Some have stated malls in UK have a place to pray. Above post States while every restaurant does not have to set aside a designated area to pray they should be able to provide prayer space when requested.

Equating an Espresso shops footprint with a mall in Uk - not apples to apples. As for above post - if it is a small shop how do you come up with space when requested.

They are running a business in Lahore where real estate probably is pricey. It costs them money.

Now cant one pray anywhere? Why demand separate place? Isn't prayer about humility and sincerity rather tun making a scene

We don't know details. If espresso staff PREVENTED her from praying they violated her rights. If womand DEMANDED separate place rather than adjust with what is available she was wrong.

You my friend have no idea what is being talked about. Its about right for a muslim to pray in a muslim country. You can keep your two cents and invest somewhere else. ;)

Estate being expensive not to accommodate prayer. That's a first. lol

[Ghost14]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

Why keep bringing law when we know she did not sue the restaurant. She protested like anyone who is denied a small place just to pray.

Because the law decides what someone can and can't do. Going by the law, the restaurant did nothing wrong. The world doesn't run on what Diwana's view should be.

[canadiandesigirl]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

Agreed its not apples to apples. This is a Muslim country with its own norms and requirements. Attributing Western values to something that is inherently alien to the entire system is worthless.

Precisely and not to mention even in a Western country I don't believe I would have a hard time finding a place where I could pray.

[diwana]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

Because the law decides what someone can and can't do. Going by the law, the restaurant did nothing wrong. The world doesn't run on what Diwana's view should be.

Not just my view, there are many who I share my views with here. :)

Like I said law has no meaning here. But I did say there should be a law to support those who ask for a place for prayer anywhere in Pakistan. Even in many western countries churches allow people to pray. No if and or but. And we are talking about Pakistan. Its all about respecting someone's religious right. The restaurant person was wrong and did an appalling act.

[Ghost14]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

Not just my view, there are many who I share my views with here. :)

And that's fair. You're entitled to your view, but you can't impose your view on others. As evident, there are many who disagree with you. Many who live in Pakistan. So how do we resolve the difference? The law. End of story.

[diwana]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

And that's fair. You're entitled to your view, but you can't impose your view on others. As evident, there are many who disagree with you. Many who live in Pakistan. So how do we resolve the difference? The law. End of story.

You can disagree also. No one is imposing the views on anyone except on those who have no idea what is the issue here.

[Ghost14]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

^ Lmao and that right there, is another "Diwana-ism".

[Southie]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

You my friend have no idea what is being talked about. Its about right for a muslim to pray in a muslim country. You can keep your two cents and invest somewhere else. ;)

Estate being expensive not to accommodate prayer. That's a first. lol

Not interested in communicating with you big guy.

[diwana]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

^ Lmao and that right there, is another "Diwana-ism".

:D

Not really!

[Southie]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

Agreed its not apples to apples. This is a Muslim country with its own norms and requirements. Attributing Western values to something that is inherently alien to the entire system is worthless.

Why a separate place? Simple. Privacy. Prayer is a sacred thing and in a coffee shop or restaurant where others are eating and chatting, do you really think that is the appropriate place to show devotion to God?

CM this is about the uppity class folks demanding a special place to pray in an Espresso shop. Real estate in cities such asxLahore can be pricey. And comparing the area in a Lahore depression shop to a UK mall area is what I meant as not apples to apples comparison.

How do the poor the homeless pray? For them any space in a coffee shop is sufficient. So it is all relative.

If one is religious one makes do with what is available. Not demand that a small shop set aside special prayer area. It is a business for Gods sake. Show humility and pray where you can. That is my opinion.

[Southie]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

Exactly...prayer is mandatory. And I want to make sure that I have a comfortable place to offer my prayers in peace, not some dingy corner underneath the stairs of a cafe. To me, it seems like the responsible thing to do would be to make sure that the establishment has suitable areangemrnts, so that I'm not caught off guard when I get there.

But that would make too much sense, wouldn't it? ;)

None of us here this forum were there to witness what happened. We don't know what the attitude or reactions were for either party involved. The waiter was most likely wrong in dismissing this lady's request, as a patron of the restaraunt, accommodations should have been made. On the flip side, something tells me she was most likely not very docile herself. She very well could have gone postal on the poor waiter, creating a scene in true desi aunty eshtyle.

Moral of the story: due diligence is paramount. And more importantly, it's Ramadan...a little compassion and mutual respect on both parts would go a long way.

Khatti - those who don't like to pray in a dingy corner or under stairs need not go to the Espresso. And as I stated to CM the poor the homeless etc don't have the luxury to choose where to pray. I have no doubt they would. Consider an Espresso shop spacious and plenty private for prayer.

Those who have God in their heart will not be so petty a the lady ( if she demanded better prayer space).

[CM]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

Again as I said to Ghost those are not the norms of the country or the people. People pray at restaurants all the time. Its a demand people have made, do make and will make. For the average Pakistani its very common to go to an area to pray. Iftars in restaurants ensure there is place to pray during ramzan. Simple as that. Its an expectation and demand the over all society has deemed acceptable.

Express Tribune by no means reflects the true nature of Pakistan. Why do I say this? Because the average Pakistani does have a home over his head let alone an internet connection.

[NS2]

Espresso Lahore protest

The poor the homeless dont even go to Espresso:smack2:
Im amazed that the lady even dared to ask when majority of the people going for iftaris and sehris at restaurants dont bother:hinna:

[Southie]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

You still have not addressed the poor and the homeless. They pray wherever they can. This uppity lady could have chosen to pray in the coffee shoo or go outside face the proper direction and pray.

Also anEspresso shop is really not a restaurant is it? Much ado about nothing. Those who flaunt their religiosity and demand special privileges ...

@CM

[X2]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

watch out PIA....

[CM]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

You still have not addressed the poor and the homeless. They pray wherever they can. This uppity lady could have chosen to pray in the coffee shoo or go outside face the proper direction and pray.

Also anEspresso shop is really not a restaurant is it? Much ado about nothing. Those who flaunt their religiosity and demand special privileges ...

So she should have done what you suggest instead of doing what society and norms of Pakistan deem acceptable?

[CM]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

watch out PIA....

Watch out all Muslim airlines. Oh wait they already do that. On flights during Ramzan most Muslim Airlines announce fajr and Maghrib prayer times, provide food for sehri and iftar and point out the direction of Kabab for prayers. They do it on Emirates and Fly Dubai for certain.

[X2]

Re: Espresso Lahore protest

Watch out all Muslim airlines. Oh wait they already do that. On flights during Ramzan most Muslim Airlines announce fajr and Maghrib prayer times, provide food for sehri and iftar and point out the direction of Kabab for prayers. They do it on Emirates and Fly Dubai for certain.

no still .."watch out PIA" because the topic is about a pakistani lady and her deal with a pakistani establishment in Pakistan

Anyhow as far as airlines go, there are no special private areas for prayers though. you want to pray, do it in your seat or wherever you can find the space and are not in the way of passengers or crew, or get permission to.

PS: mmmm kabab....