Re: Espresso Lahore protest
maybe i don't understand - .....
Maybe?
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
when restaurants are giving special iftar 'deals' and offers as part of their Ramadan promotions shouldn't it be understood that people who are there to break their fast would also want to offer their obligatory prayers? I think such restaurants and cafe's should at least give certain praying space to these people if not have a separate prayer area !
The point is that the woman was snubbed here by the staff. Did she ask for something wrong? Don't think so!
Pakistan is now seeing a new era of extremism , the extreme leftist/liberal attitude.
This.
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
This is such a misunderstanding spread by some people for their reasons.
First: Secular does NOT mean being anti-religion. It simply means separation of Govt. from religion. People are free to engage in religious affairs. Some countries and people have made this up as anti-religion movement.
Second: MA Jinnah never said to not allow a woman to pray at a coffee place. ;)
Third: What you consider hardcore conservative is merely a regurgitation of what you hear or read on media.
you my friend are too cool for school :)
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
when restaurants are giving special iftar 'deals' and offers as part of their Ramadan promotions shouldn't it be understood that people who are there to break their fast would also want to offer their obligatory prayers? I think such restaurants and cafe's should at least give certain praying space to these people if not have a separate prayer area !
The point is that the woman was snubbed here by the staff. Did she ask for something wrong? Don't think so!
Pakistan is now seeing a new era of extremism , the extreme leftist/liberal attitude.
Enigma: Well said. But don't you think this is an exception here rather than the norm? Pizza huts, Freddies, village, nandos all those buffet places still have prayers places.. I still think that both parties made it a bigger deal out of it than they should have.
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
The comments are so cringe-worthy. The liberal disease has taken a grip over Pakistan :(
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
Enigma: Well said. But don't you think this is an exception here rather than the norm? Pizza huts, Freddies, village, nandos all those buffet places still have prayers places.. I still think that both parties made it a bigger deal out of it than they should have.
I agree. It's possible that one person or just a few people were rude over this matter making them an exception and not the norm. Fair enough. But what really concerns me is the attitude people are showing towards this as if the woman is totally at fault...Comments like she should have gone to the mosque instead of the coffee place are totally uncalled for.
Is religion only confined to mosques in Pakistan now ..and mosques too have almost become a no-go zone for a lot of people around. We talk about a tolerant Pakistan. Where is tolerance in that? Heck even here in the UK we have prayer rooms in all major shopping malls and big restaurants etc.
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
I still think that both parties made it a bigger deal out of it than they should have.
Agreed but still the comments on the article are truly sad and hurtful.
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
The comments are so cringe-worthy. The liberal disease has taken a grip over Pakistan :(
exactly ! this is more that is bothering me than the incident itself.
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
I agree. It's possible that one person or just a few people were rude over this matter making them an exception and not the norm. Fair enough. But what really concerns me is the attitude people are showing towards this as if the woman is totally at fault...Comments like she should have gone to the mosque instead of the coffee place are totally uncalled for.
Is religion only confined to mosques in Pakistan now ..and mosques too have almost become a no-go zone for a lot of people around. We talk about a tolerant Pakistan. Where is tolerance in that? Heck even here in the UK we have prayer rooms in all major shopping malls and big restaurants etc.
That's what I wanted to say too. Especially the last bit!
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
Two sides to a coin. That story doesn't give too much details about what went down. A waiter denied a customer a place to pray. Was there more to it? Could she have taken it up with management before becoming "irate'? Could she have called the restaurant before hand to find out if they do offer a pace to pray? And if there was space wouldn't they have given it to her? Is it a restaurant's responsibility to have a prayer room? Just things to think about as well. I agree, though, that both side are blowing this way out of proportion.
And not too sure about the whole "liberal agenda". Yes, one part (less than 1%) has probably gotten more liberal over the years, but in general with the rise in powers of mullahs, the boom of all the people coming out from the hard core madrisahs built in the 80's , and the increase in the mass killing of minorities, I would hardly say that things are getting more liberal over there.
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
^ I agree with slims on all points! We have a lot of Pakistani restaraunts here in Dallas that offer special Iftaris, but I don't like going that much because I can never be sure of the prayer facilities or what accommodations are given. And personally, I don't feel comfortable praying in the corner of a cafe or restaraunt. Just my humble opinion.
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
Lol the irony…
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
Two sides to a coin. That story doesn't give too much details about what went down. A waiter denied a customer a place to pray. Was there more to it? Could she have taken it up with management before becoming "irate'? Could she have called the restaurant before hand to find out if they do offer a pace to pray? And if there was space wouldn't they have given it to her? Is it a restaurant's responsibility to have a prayer room? Just things to think about as well. I agree, though, that both side are blowing this way out of proportion.
And not too sure about the whole "liberal agenda". Yes, one part (less than 1%) has probably gotten more liberal over the years, but in general with the rise in powers of mullahs, the boom of all the people coming out from the hard core madrisahs built in the 80's , and the increase in the mass killing of minorities, I would hardly say that things are getting more liberal over there.
Why should she ask for a place for prayer beforehand, in a muslim country at the time of Iftaar?
Was she going to a nightclub or something like a booze party?
By the way how much place a woman needs for prayer anyway. Its not she would have asked for a huge space.
I think it should be made mandatory for every restaurant to have such place available in Pakistan.
And for other poster, what is so awkward in praying in the corner of a restaurant?
All Iftar dinners hosts do make sure there is a place for praying for guests.
Those who feel not going to Iftar dinners can stay home with family though. :)
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
^ You're missing the point. Both sides are being over zealous but unless there is a law requiring the restaurant to provide a prayer room, she has no right to demand one. It doesn't matter if it's a Muslim country, no law, no obligation. If that upsets anyone, they can show their displeasure by taking their business elsewhere.
I know you tend to get sidetracked within your own thoughts, so I've highlighted the important point above. Please don't go tripping shrooms on me.
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
You are just looking for an argument I know.
You missed the huge point. Prayer is mandatory, time for prayer may be short. Any place which is rather clean is acceptable for prayer. And lady had the right to ask. Restaurant person had a duty to oblige. Not by law but by common sense and courtesy. She was rightfully upset.
She was not asking for a million bucks or personal favor to wash her car.
And then came those idiots who wrote comments on that website…!!
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
Lol I would never argue with the great Diwana.
Like I said, there is no law. Do I think the restaurant should have accommodated her? Yes. But if they didn't, or were unable to, then she should protest by taking her business elsewhere. No law, no obligation.
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
Why should she ask for a place for prayer beforehand, in a muslim country at the time of Iftaar?
Was she going to a nightclub or something like a booze party?
By the way how much place a woman needs for prayer anyway. Its not she would have asked for a huge space.
I think it should be made mandatory for every restaurant to have such place available in Pakistan.
And for other poster, what is so awkward in praying in the corner of a restaurant?
All Iftar dinners hosts do make sure there is a place for praying for guests.
Those who feel not going to Iftar dinners can stay home with family though. :)
Exactly...prayer is mandatory. And I want to make sure that I have a comfortable place to offer my prayers in peace, not some dingy corner underneath the stairs of a cafe. To me, it seems like the responsible thing to do would be to make sure that the establishment has suitable areangemrnts, so that I'm not caught off guard when I get there.
But that would make too much sense, wouldn't it?
;)
None of us here this forum were there to witness what happened. We don't know what the attitude or reactions were for either party involved. The waiter was most likely wrong in dismissing this lady's request, as a patron of the restaraunt, accommodations should have been made. On the flip side, something tells me she was most likely not very docile herself. She very well could have gone postal on the poor waiter, creating a scene in true desi aunty eshtyle.
Moral of the story: due diligence is paramount. And more importantly, it's Ramadan...a little compassion and mutual respect on both parts would go a long way.
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
^ I agree with slims on all points! We have a lot of Pakistani restaraunts here in Dallas that offer special Iftaris, but I don't like going that much because I can never be sure of the prayer facilities or what accommodations are given. And personally, I don't feel comfortable praying in the corner of a cafe or restaraunt. Just my humble opinion.
Except you are talking about Dallas USA not Lahore Pakistan. Heck I bet if I went to a restaurant here in Canada and asked if I can get a quiet corner to pray they would happily show me the back where I could pray. I am not saying that every restaurant and cafe in Pakistan should have a designated area to pray but if someone asks the staff should be able to show them an area where it might be possible to pray. Now Slims is right we don't know the details on this case to comment what happened and if that was the correct course of action. I don't have facts or numbers on how liberal Pakistanis have become but going by the comments on the news article it seemed like the situation took place in a non Muslim country and the comments were made by a bunch of non Muslims.
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
Some have stated malls in UK have a place to pray. Above post States while every restaurant does not have to set aside a designated area to pray they should be able to provide prayer space when requested.
Equating an Espresso shops footprint with a mall in Uk - not apples to apples. As for above post - if it is a small shop how do you come up with space when requested.
They are running a business in Lahore where real estate probably is pricey. It costs them money.
Now cant one pray anywhere? Why demand separate place? Isn't prayer about humility and sincerity rather tun making a scene
We don't know details. If espresso staff PREVENTED her from praying they violated her rights. If womand DEMANDED separate place rather than adjust with what is available she was wrong.
Re: Espresso Lahore protest
^ You're missing the point. Both sides are being over zealous but unless there is a law requiring the restaurant to provide a prayer room, she has no right to demand one. It doesn't matter if it's a Muslim country, no law, no obligation. If that upsets anyone, they can show their displeasure by taking their business elsewhere.
I know you tend to get sidetracked within your own thoughts, so I've highlighted the important point above. Please don't go tripping shrooms on me.
The rules of Western Christendom do not apply to the Islamic world. So please don't apply them to the environment. The issue is not a prayer room but a place to pray. And in Pakistan like in Afghanistan, Sudan, Malaysia or Indonesia it is your obligation to provide it. Regardless of whether you like it or not, society and the majority of people deem it to be a requirement and a demand they can make. Considering the fact that I have prayed at restaurants around Islamabad, Lahore and Peshawar during Ramzan its very easily doable and is the cultural norm.
Just to point out my original comment was sarcasm. Intending to mock the responses that were gonna be posted stating the liberals were destroying Pakistan. And posts like yours just reinforce that idea. A typical point of view that does not take into account cultural context, local sensitivities or the norms of society. Rather you post like you know better than everybody who lives there and deals with this on a regular basis.