Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
yeh islami dance hey :cobra:
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
Peace brother vroom
I actually agree that discrete elements within the mawlid are all of those things … I had not even started … I was specifically addressing the point of 12th of Rabi-ul-Awwal as an annual event - This is the limit of what I was discussing. Of course there are all of those elements in it, but the real argument is only about the timing and an annual celebration event.
I was going to say when a neutral thing contains fard, sunnah, mustahabaat, etc … then even that neutral thing becomes necessary unless those faraid, sunnah and mustabahat are met in other ways. In which case the people who do not do Mawlid specifically but do other mawlid like things to maintain the love and focus of RasoolAllah (SAW) in their hearts then the annual celebration is not something that requires kaza or it is not a sin to miss it. I think you agree with this …
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
It is nothing wrong with reminding ourselves and others with different aspects of the life of the holy prophet (pbuh), his seerah and praising him through naats etc. but why fix a day for this purpose. His importance is such that he should be comemorated each and every day, any day, it could 12th rabiulawal or else. The main issue is what you do as part of celebration. I have seen people doing obnoxious things here in Pakistan on Eid-e-miladun-Nabi. We just need to be very careful of what we do keeping in mind the dignity of the great prophet (pbuh) we are associated with.
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
Fard and Wajab? Your mistaken- to say especially that without a solid foundation and Authentic hadiths is worrying. I think your opinion is this as your views are barelvi? Saw you say that from another thread.
I disagree and like I said before with a quote anything new created into the religion, for a good or bad purpose is against Islam, I gave the hadith which is authentic. I wont say anymore because this discussion won’t end.
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
Mawlid is not just a Birthday celebration, but it is the celebration of the Arrival of RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam.
It is Fard to be Happy with the Arrival of RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam
This is FARD, and it is MAWLID
You are welcome to talk as much as you like. The Hadiths you posted are not interpreted by Mainstream Muslims in the way you interpret and apply them
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
Brother Saleem – one must not make tall claims by misinterpreting the Blessed Quran to prove one’s point.
1: The Blessed Quran has nowhere ordered Muslims to ‘celebrate’ day of the Blessed Prophet’s (peace and blessings be upon him) day of birth with feasting.
Please care to show this ‘supposedly fact’ from the blessed Quran.
Everything that is ordered in the blessed Quran is very clear, unequivocal, direct and explicit.
The ayahs ordering Muslims to believe in tawheed, pray, fast in the month of Ramadan, pay Zakat, perform Hajj etc. etc. are direct, clear and unambiguous.
Let’s see what you have to say.
Also exact date of birth of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is in dispute, 12th Rabi ul Awwal just being the most popular one:
The different views regarding the date of birth are:
2nd Rabi ul Awwal: Ibn Abd al-Barr
5th Rabi ul Awwal: Ameer ud din
8th Rabi ul Awwal: Ibn al Qayyim, ibn e Hazm, Az Zuhri , Ibn e Dihya
9th Rabi ul Awwal : Muhammad Suleman Mansurpuri, Mubarakpuri , Shibli Nomani, Mahmud Pasha Falaki, Akbar Shah Najeeb Abadi,Moeen ud din Ahmed Nadvi, Abul Kalam Azad
12th Rabi ul Awwal: Tabari, ibn e Khuldoon , Dr hameedullah , ibn e hisham, ‘Allama Abu’l-Hasan ‘Ali ibn Muhammad al- Mawardi, ibn e ishaaq
10th Rabi ul Awwal: Abul Fida, Abu Jaafar al Baaqir, Al Waqadi , Al Sha’bi– 10
17th Rabi ul Awwal: Shia view; and they also believe that it was Friday
22nd Rabi ul Awwal: Also attributed to ibn e Hazm
10th Muharram: Abdul Qadir Jilani
Similarly the exact date of passing away of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is in dispute.
See the following link:
Date of Birth and Date of Death of Prophet Muhammad
2: The Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) NEVER ‘celebrated’ his birthday!
All he did was to honour the day he was born (Monday) and he NEVER honoured the date he was born on. And he honoured this day by fasting and he did not order anyone else to follow suit.
There is no historical evidence of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) having annul celebrations of his birthday.
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There is no record of his blessed Companions (May Allah Almighty be pleased with them all) celebrating his birthday.
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There is no record of those who followed the Companions (May Allah Almighty be pleased with them all) nor of those who followed them.
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There is no record of the four eminent Imams and their contemporaries (May Allah Almighty have mercy on them) celebrating his birthday.
Lady Aisha (Radi Allahu Anha) reported that Rasoolullah Sall Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam said:
"For every people there is a festival, and this (Eid ul Fitr) is our festival." [Saheeh Al-Bukhari]
Anas ibn Malik (ra) narrated that Rasoolullah Sall Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam said:
*“Allah has given you better than those festivals (of pagans): ‘Eid-ul-Adh-haa (festival of sacrificing) and ‘Eid-ul-Fitr (festival of breaking the fast).” * [An-Nasai and Abu Dawood; Sanad Saheeh]
So authentically Muslims have only 2 annual Eids = ‘Eid-ul-Fitr and ‘Eid-ul-Adh-haa.
Friday is the day of ‘Eid for Muslims on weekly basis
So those who do celebrate the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) are not as a fact following his Sunnah. They are celebrating the birthday of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) out of sheer love and devotion to him. And these people have no right to demean those who do not follow their way.
There are many other authentic ways to show one’s love and devotion the ‘Best of Creations’
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
I have yet to see a counter claim to this argument. Why choose 12 Rabi ul Awwal?
I have also yet to see clear comments about the ‘ways’ in with mawlid is celebrated, specially in India/Pakistan from those who strongly support celebrating date of birth of our Prophet (PBUH). Why is there such loud and clear rejection of saying Merry Christmas (because, omg, that is supposed to be the date of birth of Jesus AS) or candle light vigils (omg, the jews use candles, but for 12 Rabi ul Awwal we would allow it) or music (omg, music is haram, but we won’t say anything if done on 12 Rabi ul Awwal) or subscribing to anything ‘mushriks’ do (but we would allow Santa Claus like figures for 12 Rabi ul Awwal) or taking out processions and floats like Hindus do for their gods (omg, haram, but we would stay quiet on 12 Rabi ul Awwal). People are quick to label those who do not subscribe to celebrating on this date as ‘deviants’ but no words about how pagan this celebration is becoming?
I understand the need for one to stick to a point of view but please openly accept when the followers of your point of view go crazy … just trying to ‘get into the face’ of those who reject that point of view and not for the love of our Prophet (PBUH).
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
^ my apologies I meant to say
So those who do celebrate the birthday of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) are not as a fact following his Sunnah. They are celebrating the birthday of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) out of sheer love and devotion to him. And these people have no right to demean those who do not follow their way.
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
It is the most popular date
The people of knowledge organise Milad gatherings throughout the Month of Rabi Al Awal. And some Milad Gatherings happen throughout the Year
The merry christmas issue should be understandable to you from its thread. if not you may never understand.
Some of the issues you mentioned have some basis in the Shariah, so their prohibition is not possible. Some are iktilafi issues [they have some support from accepted Scholars and some who do not allow them]
These acts are not necessarily pagan, some of these issues have approval in Islam with conditions
Those who reject can also fall into many categories. One is: he who does not partake and does not forbid. One is someone who does not partake and forbids Mawlid all together, one is who tells one set of people that they think anyone who forbids Mawlid is a Kaffir [in a blatant lie to be seen as Sunni] and then goes onto produce the biggest haters of Mawlid ever.
Mawlid can become corrupted with Muharamaat. For example mixed gatherings are Haram. They remain Haram during Mawlid.
But something like what jasos posted of the singing/dancing would be seen as permissible by some Ulema.
The people who forbid Mawlid forbid all types of Mawlid including gatherings which have Islamic talks delivered to a seated people. They have done many years of propaganda against a range of issues effecting Traditional Islam. The country i live in Milad is limited to Mosques and Houses [for women], and everything is orderly. The days of gatherings are many, one each day possibly for a week
So when you see me calling someone a deviant it is for specific positions, like forbidding a practice that carries overwhelming support not for not partaking. The people who cite not partaking as a reason for their mistreatment forget to say what else they also did. Also the wording I use is supposed to be the wording of the opposition, so you may be confused with regards to a lot of what you are seeing
Its a shame, but you best just focus on something else. Come into religion with by calling Upon Allah Ta’ala for help, not by following these sectarian wars
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
As I said before, with limited knowledge, I look at things more or less as an outsider and the thing that bothers me is the double standards applied when discussing them.
Absolutely no problems with this. This is rather great and nice to remember and praise the greatest Human to have graced this earth. My problem is that in my country, these limits are not observed and you take a lenient view on people not observing such limits saying things like…
Now these are double standards. Either you take a lenient view and accept ‘ikhtilafi issues’ from scholars you do not agree with and not issue fatwas left, right and center OR strongly issue ‘deviant’ fatwas to such acts that are clearly borrowed from other religions (taking out processions with Santa-like characters on Eid Milad-un-Nabi).
While I agree with you that celebrating birth of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) within limits is a good thing, why stop me from celebrating birth of Prophet Jesus (AS) within similar limits that I have absolutely no intention of considering him God or son or God?
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
kia bat hey janab :cobra:
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
Ok let’s get something clear here …
The people who celebrate mawlid are not enforcing it on others, it is some of the ones who do not celebrate it who are telling the ones who celebrate mawlid to stop.
This is the inherent problem …
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Some mawlid celebrations can interfere with the well-being of others and some people use mawlid to taunt the people who do not celebrate it. The solution is that the people who celebrate Mawlid need to absorb the Sunnah of compassion and be nice to others on this occasion - especially nice and not just to fellow mawlid goers, but to the whole community.
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If for the purpose of inculcating love a mawlid gathering is attended - if they should stop doing that attendance then a feasible and proven method of obtaining that love for RasoolAllah (SAW) needs to be substituted - for some people it is the only time they get to experience their religion and those doors are closed by preventing the celebration then we might end up turning the people away completely. In fact the biggest cause of secularised mindset in Muslims is the disenfranchisement of people’s hearts from RasoolAllah (SAW).
A sign of a person who loves RasoolAllah (SAW) is in his obedience to RasoolAllah (SAW). This does not mean love is obedience. Rather true love has stages and the highest manifestation of love is emulation. We need to reconnect with our dear prophet (SAW). Love is a very human emotion you all know it - you know it when you kiss your mother and hug a pet … Let not the callous interpretations of hadith distance this understanding of love you know and experience differ from what you emanate towards and receive from RasoolAllah (SAW). There is a context to statement of obedience = love of RasoolAllah (SAW) … but it does not remove what we already understand about love.
That is if you have a living heart enough to understand it !!!
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
what’s the differance Between Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah and the shades of wahabism??
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
“RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam would fast to commemorate His Blessed Birth Weekly or twice weekly” could you please provide referance of this please.
secondly if the above is the case, are people following the same action of RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam?? i guess not. And i don’t have to tell you what does innovations mean in Islam.
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
hmmmm, i cant really understand..
1- are we following Quran, Haidths and Sahabas or are we following Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah??
2- tradition???, well i this that was one of the reasons why Prophits were sent to this world. to break free of Traditions and worship one God. RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam is shown us how to do that.
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
There should not be any double standards applied by myself.
Great Comment early on
Mawlid should not be commemorated with prohibited acts, although it is permissible for ALL people to celebrate. So in this situation you may get a lala from the backwaters of rural life, or more likely a slave from slavery that commemorates with unlawful acts. May Allah Ta’ala have mercy on such a person. I personally am a friend, a brother, a protector of this person if anyone tries to transgress upon him. However there is another type of person who may do haram acts knowingly at Mawlid, i am not this persons friend.
They are not double standards. I only accept issues as Iktilafi from a certain type of scholar, not all sects and possibilities. These people are those whom are the inheritors of the Prophets, they issue Fatawa, sometimes we can get iktilafi issues. The religion recognizes them
The loyalty here given to one group over another is given by the religion. Meaning from the islamic sources you can gather who those are upon correct Islam. For example Ijma of Ahlus Sunnah means anybody who disagrees is not Ahlus Sunnah. Ahlus Sunnah and the main body of Muslims is validated in the Hadith, so we are to follow them
Also there is thoughts among so called muslim groups present now that are clear falsehood such as opinions which imply the fatwa of kufr [astagfirullah] upon Islam itself! I mean they say such and such belief is shirk when it is actually Quran approved
So before you can criticize me regarding calling people deviant - you need to be aware of what Islam has allowed us, and what Islam has not allowed us and have such knowledge. Calling people deviant is ok as a risk for me because it is me shouting my beliefs out, its something i want my Lord to recognize me for, its something i expect reward for. I am protecting Believers. However it can be dangerous if done incorrectly so some one like yourself is best advised to stay away from these polemics
I am only stopping you celebrating christmas which is christian festival [if you are a muslim only], i implied celebrating the birth of Isa Alaihis Salam could be impermissible for other reasons, could even be permissible when those reasons are removed.
The Quran has honoured the day Isa Alaihis Salam was born by mentioning it in the Quran
It would be impermissible to celebrate the birth of someone called Jesus because i am not aware of this being any Prophet or Wali of Allah.
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
itni tention kion laitey hain? Jesus is just an English pronunciation of the name of Prophet Isa Alaihis Salam. Either that or you think that Bible talks about a different person?
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
The difference implied there is the permissibility of Mawlid
The Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah consider it a good practice
Wahabis forbid it [having no authority to do so]
Shades of wahabism - was meant to signify that the ulema/school the person i was talking to worships originally held it to be permissible and then stopped commemorating it, and then made takfir of those who forbid it, and then produced a massive army of people who prohibit Mawlid
This reference has been provided a number of times, and should be known by anyone commenting on a Mawlid related topic
1 We are following Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah who in turn follow the Sahaba/Tabieen who in turn follow RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam. We [laymen] do NOT make rulings from Quran and Hadith ourselves. Those guided to do that are a high rank among us
2 What i meant by break from tradition can be understood by my comment above on shades of wahabism. You see the people were united upon being part of one sect prior to 1 hundred years ago, Even 70/60/50 years ago the amount of new sect adherents was minimal. Almost Every one followed Traditional Islam known as Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah, now sometimes referred to as Barelvi.
Also we are not to take new ideas into account over Islam now that Islam has been established. We are warned in Hadith about hearing new things which contradict what Islam brought, and contradict what our [Muslim] forefathers have been upon! This point will be totally opposite of what you were thinking!
By the way your signature! you no interest in Islam do you? if you do get rid of it and write I seek refuge with Allah from the accursed Shaitan
In Sha Allah my effort helps you
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
The comment was designed to get you thinking, there is no tension in me
I am wallowing in a kind of peace
The bible is corrupted no end. It is only available in translations with wholesale ‘‘corrections’’ by people who thought they knew better. I am not aware of the name Jesus being validated from Islamic sources
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
I just cant get over your icon/idol [avataar]
i do not know who you are. Never come across you before. tell me about yourself. If you are hindu as i have got you down as, or do you consider yourself Muslim. I HONESTLY do not know.
I am a Sunni from Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah, those who consider Mawlid a GOOD practice, nice to meet you. I take it you want to discuss Islamic sources?