Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

[USResident]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

@khanbabax

Whats worse - killing or apostacy?

Whats the penalty for killing?

Ok then.

There is ijma’ that the apostate is put to death as cited by Hafiz Ibn Hajar 'Asqalani in his Fath al Bari - a consensus that was reached during the time of the Companions themselves which makes it of the highest form.

This is consensus is also mentioned in al Jawhara’s Nawadir al Ijma’ and by Ibn Qattan in his book on Ijma’.

To go against the Ijma of Sahabas is in the least haram and can lead to kufar at time. This is not a game but a serious issue. Personal opinions of any scholar doesnt hold any water against the Ijma of Sahabas (which is a qatee proof in Sharia) let alone view of Gup-Shupers (which is a qatee proof in Sharia).

The Fuqaha (Jurists)

All the 4 Mazhabs are unanimous that a renegade must be executed if he does not revert to Islam. Hereunder are classical texts from each of the 4 Mazhabs:

Al-Hanafiyyah

Imam al-Marghinaaniy says: "If a Muslim, may Allah forbid turns away from Islam, the religion of Islam should be presented to him. If he has any doubts they should be cleared…and he should be kept under supervision for 3 days. If he reverts to Islam, he must be set free, otherwise he should be executed. (Al-Hidaya)

Allamah Ibn ‘Aabideen says: “Note well! It is unanimous that a renegade from Islam must be executed” (Rasaa’il Ibn Aabideen)

Al-Maalikiyyah

Imam Maalik says: “The one who renegades from Islam to another religion and exposes it will be asked to repent from his action. If he does not repent, he must be executed.” (Al-Mu’atta lil Imam Maalik)

Al-shaafi’iyyah

Imam al-Shaafi’iy says: “One who renegades from Islam will not be left alone, either he reverts to Islam or he will be executed.” (Kitab al-Umm)

Al-Hanaabilah

Allamah Ibn Qudaama al-Hanbaliy says: “All the scholars are unanimous that a renegade must be executed.” (Al-Mughniy with Sharh al-Kabir Vol.10 Pg.74 Dar al-Kutub al-Ilmiyyah Beirut)

From the above it is explicitly clear that there is no leeway in the religion of Islam regarding executing a renegade from Islam.

and Allah Ta’ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

Bro

First off going against the opinion of Ashaba is not haram though it may not be advisable and lead to Kufr as you stated.

Secondly, as given in this post of yours and I am sure you just like me have read most if not all of the ahadith related to apostacy in the Siha Sitta and the word used in most of them is that of renegade. A renegade apostate is one who has become rebellious and traitorous. I think there is no one on this thread so far who has denied or not agreed that if the Apostate has become a renegade or harmful to the cause of Islam and life of muslims that he should be let go without punishment.

However all in all, the opinions presented are all too simplistic to cover all cases of Apostates in real life and that is where my difference of opinion lies. For the record I do not disagree that the capital punishment can be given to the Apostate if he has become a renegade. What I do disagree is that not all Apostates of today fall into this one specific category whereas most of the Apostates in the time of the Prophet SAW and the times of the companions did fall into this category as muslims were constantly at war and an Islamic state existed. This is why I simply cannot blindly follow the opinions of jurists of the past because our times are different from theirs. Every single jurist of the past in our history lived in the bipolar world of an Islamic state and non-muslim states. They only ever lived under muslim rule whether good or bad. And they only ever knew one type of Apostacy, that is one done to harm Islam and join n a war against muslims.

You may disagree with me and have a right to do so however the muslim ummah is on the decline not only because we do not follow our religion but also because we have failed to progress ourselves along with the universal laws of the Allah SWT which govern the matters of humans and this universe. Even if we follow Islam we err in judgement because we continue to see things as if they are happening in the past.

JAK.

[Khehkeshan]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

@khanbabax

Whats worse - killing or apostacy?

Whats the penalty for killing?

Ok then.

There is ijma' that the apostate is put to death as cited by Hafiz Ibn Hajar 'Asqalani in his Fath al Bari - a consensus that was reached during the time of the Companions themselves which makes it of the highest form.

This is consensus is also mentioned in al Jawhara's Nawadir al Ijma' and by Ibn Qattan in his book on Ijma'.

To go against the Ijma of Sahabas is in the least haram and can lead to kufar at time. This is not a game but a serious issue. Personal opinions of any scholar doesnt hold any water against the Ijma of Sahabas (which is a qatee proof in Sharia) let alone view of Gup-Shupers (which is a qatee proof in Sharia).

The Fuqaha (Jurists)

All the 4 Mazhabs are unanimous that a renegade must be executed if he does not revert to Islam. Hereunder are classical texts from each of the 4 Mazhabs:

Al-Hanafiyyah

Imam al-Marghinaaniy says: "If a Muslim, may Allah forbid turns away from Islam, the religion of Islam should be presented to him. If he has any doubts they should be cleared…and he should be kept under supervision for 3 days. If he reverts to Islam, he must be set free, otherwise he should be executed. (Al-Hidaya)

Allamah Ibn ‘Aabideen says: "Note well! It is unanimous that a renegade from Islam must be executed" (Rasaa’il Ibn Aabideen)

Al-Maalikiyyah

Imam Maalik says: "The one who renegades from Islam to another religion and exposes it will be asked to repent from his action. If he does not repent, he must be executed." (Al-Mu’atta lil Imam Maalik)

Al-shaafi’iyyah

Imam al-Shaafi’iy says: "One who renegades from Islam will not be left alone, either he reverts to Islam or he will be executed." (Kitab al-Umm)

Al-Hanaabilah

Allamah Ibn Qudaama al-Hanbaliy says: "All the scholars are unanimous that a renegade must be executed." (Al-Mughniy with Sharh al-Kabir Vol.10 Pg.74 Dar al-Kutub al-Ilmiyyah Beirut)

From the above it is explicitly clear that there is no leeway in the religion of Islam regarding executing a renegade from Islam.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

And this is why "sharia" is a brutal medieval system of law. Every sane person knows it, but is afraid to admit it openly.

[Ajju]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

I notice that your fatwa does not have any reference to Quran neither a Hadees is sighted. Also, Imam Abu Hanifa and Ahmad Bin Hanbal are not quoted.

[khanbabax]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

First off going against the opinion of Ashaba is not haram though it may not be advisable and lead to Kufr as you stated.

Salam,

You have said that it can lead to kufar, but on the other hand you said its not haram? Again view of all the Ahle Sunnah is that its either haram or kufar (depends on the situation). It is never allowed to go outside the Ijma, let alone the Ijma of Sahabas. Ijma of the Sahabas is highest form of Ijma.

Secondly, as given in this post of yours and I am sure you just like me have read most if not all of the ahadith related to apostacy in the Siha Sitta and the word used in most of them is that of renegade.

the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.’"

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/083.sbt.html#009.083.017

Prophet s.a.w could have said, only kill the aposate if he is rebellious or traitor, but thats not the case. These are not the words of Prophet s.a.w. His order is very clear, and thats how Sahabas understood it (who could have understood Islam better than Sahabas?) and thats who all the Salaf understood it. They knew more Arabic than us.

Bukhari *Volume 9, Book 89, Number 271: *Narrated Abu Musa: A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu’adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu’adh asked, “What is wrong with this (man)?” Abu Musa replied, “He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism.” Mu’adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle.

Also I gave the example of people who refused to give zakaat. Thats all, they didnt rebel or anything. They considered themselves as Muslims. But Sahabas fought against them and declared them apostates.

A renegade apostate is one who has become rebellious and traitorous. I think there is no one on this thread so far who has denied or not agreed that if the Apostate has become a renegade or harmful to the cause of Islam and life of muslims that he should be let go without punishment.

As I have said, Prophet s.a.w and Sahabas made no distinction between these types of apostacy. Can you show some hadees where Prophet s.a.w made this distinction between different types of apostacy.

[khanbabax]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

@Ajju

I notice that your fatwa does not have any reference to Quran neither a Hadees is sighted. Also, Imam Abu Hanifa and Ahmad Bin Hanbal are not quoted.

Refer to my post above.

Also Madhabas are not based on opinion of one scholar but of 1000s of scholars during the different times. So these are not just the views of 4 Imams but of whole madhabas which means view of 1000s of scholars in every century.

[khanbabax]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

@USResident

Bro

You may disagree with me and have a right to do so however the muslim ummah is on the decline not only because we do not follow our religion but also because we have failed to progress ourselves along with the universal laws of the Allah SWT which govern the matters of humans and this universe. Even if we follow Islam we err in judgement because we continue to see things as if they are happening in the past.

JAK.

I think because we have left the the Islam as it was understood by Sahabas and started to give our own opinions. Every person who cant even read Arabic is giving his own fatwas about what is Islam. This is the main cause of our downfall.

[hypnotix-2000]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

Dear bro Pak-One,
There is no such thing as dilute Islam, orthodox Islam, hardlined Islam, liberal Islam. Islam means submission and it cannot be partial, diluted, orthodox or liberal.

In the light of the Quran, I fail to understand the wisdom behind killing of apostates when "There is No Compulsion in the DEEN/way-of-life/obligation".

Here's a thought, "We are not compelling you, however, if you do not comply, we will execute you in 3 days"...

@pak-one

Bro, we are all Muslims here right? We don't need to dilute the religion so that it is PC. If he has a difference of opinion than so be it, that executioner would be supported by Orthodox Islam.

You can pick and choose tenets of Islam to match your lifestyle but do realize that you will not have the theological support to back up your assertions.

Shifting gears to the reality, can you identify cases where the apostates were actually hanged by the government/Islamic court? You will note that they have been few and far in between.

[hypnotix-2000]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

@khanbabax

So these are not just the views of 4 Imams but of whole madhabas which means view of 1000s of scholars in every century.

The earth used to be flat as well bro KBX.

[hypnotix-2000]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

Bro USR, I think it is best if we define the word renegade here so that one can understand the difference from an apostate:

Renegade is he who after deserting a cause, works covertly or openly to undermine and destablize a group, cause or nation.

It is almost if we are defining a terrorist! That is what is punishable by death, not someone who found a problem with tradition for instance and voiced his opinion that one should only follow the message as presented in the Quran.

If a person does embrace God’s system, he cannot defect from it for it is God’s promise: “There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.”

So if a person is born in a muslim family, or embraced Islam under peer pressure, and then converted to another religion, then to me he never really accepted Islam to begin with so how can he be an apostate?

Moreover, it is between that person and God…

Only when he uses his resources to destablize the state, is he subject to punishment by the state, but then, anyone who unjustly does that is subject to punishment since he has broken his covenant with God (no matter how he/she dresses or acts).

Regards

@USResident

Bro

First off going against the opinion of Ashaba is not haram though it may not be advisable and lead to Kufr as you stated.

Secondly, as given in this post of yours and I am sure you just like me have read most if not all of the ahadith related to apostacy in the Siha Sitta and the word used in most of them is that of renegade. A renegade apostate is one who has become rebellious and traitorous. I think there is no one on this thread so far who has denied or not agreed that if the Apostate has become a renegade or harmful to the cause of Islam and life of muslims that he should be let go without punishment.

However all in all, the opinions presented are all too simplistic to cover all cases of Apostates in real life and that is where my difference of opinion lies. For the record I do not disagree that the capital punishment can be given to the Apostate if he has become a renegade. What I do disagree is that not all Apostates of today fall into this one specific category whereas most of the Apostates in the time of the Prophet SAW and the times of the companions did fall into this category as muslims were constantly at war and an Islamic state existed. This is why I simply cannot blindly follow the opinions of jurists of the past because our times are different from theirs. Every single jurist of the past in our history lived in the bipolar world of an Islamic state and non-muslim states. They only ever lived under muslim rule whether good or bad. And they only ever knew one type of Apostacy, that is one done to harm Islam and join n a war against muslims.

You may disagree with me and have a right to do so however the muslim ummah is on the decline not only because we do not follow our religion but also because we have failed to progress ourselves along with the universal laws of the Allah SWT which govern the matters of humans and this universe. Even if we follow Islam we err in judgement because we continue to see things as if they are happening in the past.

JAK.

[hareem01]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

@khanbabax

Salam,

Also I gave the example of people who refused to give zakaat. Thats all, they didnt rebel or anything. They considered themselves as Muslims. But Sahabas fought against them and declared them apostates. .

wa salaam brother, Those who refused to pay zakaat were the ones who started war and attacked muslims of Madinah first.

"When the delegation of the tribes waited on Abu Bakr, Abu Bakr explained to the delegates that if they professed Islam, they had to observe all the injunctions of Islam in to. There was no half-way house in Islam, and it was not permissible for them to pick and choose according to their whims in the matter of religion. Islam had either to be accepted or rejected, and there was no room in Islam for any compromise on fundamentals. Zakat being a fundamental injunction of Islam had to be made, and any refusal to pay Zakat implied apostasy. Addressing the delegates, Abu Bakr declared in unequivocal terms:

“Under the circumstances, if with reference to Zakat you withhold even as much as a string to tie a camel, as a Caliph of the Holy Prophet, it will be my duty to fight for it whatever the consequences.”

Umar sat by the side of Abu Bakr as the delegates met the Caliph. Thus rebuffed the recalcitrant tribes decided to accept the challenge. **As the main Muslim army under Usamah was out of the country, the tribes felt that Madina was vulnerable and would easily fall to any attack. The tribes held a council of war among themselves and decided to attack Madina. One night the tribes marched to Madina and opened the attack. **

Abu Bakr and Umar were alive to the gravity of the situation. They took precautionary measures and every able bodied male adult in Madina was called upon to come forward for the defense of the city. With all the forces that could be mustered the Muslims marched to face the invaders. The invaders threw inflated water skins in the path of the Muslim army. That frightened the camels on which the Muslims were riding, and the camels ran towards Madina. The tribes felt jubilant at the retreat of the Muslims.

Abu Bakr and Umar rallied the Muslim forces. In the late hours of the night, the Muslim forces marched out of the city and led a violent attack. The tribal forces were taken unawares and were cut to pieces. Those who survived fled in confusion. Before the day dawned the Muslims had won the victory and the threat to Madina was over."

witness-pioneer.org

[hareem01]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

@USResident

Behna

The author pretty much said what I had been saying from the beginning. To summarize, the actions of a person that follow his apostacy determine his fate. Or in other words apotasy has degrees of which all are not subject to capital punishment.

Sigh!!! Sometimes I wish people had the intelligence to understand the knowledge they present.

**Every single jurist of the past in our history lived in the bipolar world of an Islamic state and non-muslim states. They only ever lived under muslim rule whether good or bad. And they only ever knew one type of Apostacy, that is one done to harm Islam and join n a war against muslims.
**

Wa alaykum salaam brother.

I just want to clarify the bolded part you’ve written in another post.

The incident in Abu bakr(ra)'s khilafa that I posted above shows that one(muslim) who denies any pillar of Islam can be named also as an apostate, those who refused to pay zakaat were muslims, they didn’t change their religion, but they did worse than changing their religion, they tried to pick and choose teachings of Quran, in this way they were causing harm to Islam and after that they even waged war against muslims.

So they knew about different types of Apostates.

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

First up, this is very much a debatable topic, and according i adhere to USR becaus times are different, and if brother USR remembers we did have discussion about this earlier, because apostacy has different rulings with different time.

Secondly, here i will bring in few verses of the Quran and few hadith to back up the claim. First up we have to understand Apostacy as a penalty is promised by Allaah in the Quran, than for the human.
After that in again becomes situational based and then the word 'renegade' comes into picture.

My first Verse is,

There is no compulsion in religion Verse 2:256.

Now keeping the above verse in mind is apostacy a fair ruling then. One place in the Quran it states no compulsion in religion, and then if some disbelieves cut him down. But for a murtid who is the the one who punishes. For these verses in the Quran below clearly states if someone first believes and then disbelieves Allaah will penalise them.

Say, The truth is from your Lord: Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it): for the wrong-doers We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable a couch to recline on!
[The Quran ; 18:29]

**90: Surely, those who disbelieve after their believing, then increase in unbelief, their repentance shall not be accepted, and these are they that go astray.

91: Surely, those who disbelieve and die while they are unbelievers, the earth full of gold shall not be accepted from one of them, though he should offer to ransom himself with it, these it is who shall have a painful chastisement, and they shall have no helpers.**
[The Quran ; 3:90-91]

Please also refer verses 4:137-138. Also check 18 21,22.

So infact in the above verses the person is continually inclined towards disbelief even here there was no question of apostacy. Well, again the reason is its situational based and if charged for treason.

So we find no evidence from the Quran. One more interesting stuff to note here is just suppose a person disbelieves in Islam, but still just to show to the outside world is still a Muslim but this is an act of hypocrisy, and believe me hypocrisy is a much bigger sin compared to Apostacy.

---

Now let me back it up with hadith also,

Narrated by Bukhari Vol 9, hadith 316
Jabir ibn `Abdullah narrated that a Bedouin pledged allegiance to the Apostle of Allah for Islam (i.e. accepted Islam) and then the Bedouin got fever whereupon he said to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) "cancel my pledge." But the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) refused. He (the Bedouin) came to him (again) saying, "Cancel my pledge." But the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) refused. Then he (the Bedouin) left (Medina). Allah's Apostle said, "Madinah is like a pair of bellows (furnace): it expels its impurities and brightens and clear its good."

This has always been my say someones wants to quit Islam then let him do it.

[Aliyish]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

Let me add one more qurani Ayaat which clearly deals with capital punishment issue .
Allah says in Quran “On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.” [5:32]

Therefore IMHO unless or until apostacy becomes treason , it is not punishable by death .

Allah knows better !

[Sir_Dig_A_Lot]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

Most of the Mullahs confuse apostasy with 'treason against the (Islamic in this case) state'.

A person starts believing in some other faith, fine, let him.

A person declares his allegiance to a force fighting against yours, that's treason, and is punishable by death in lots of non-Muslims states also.

In the Medina days of Islamic state, harsh measurements were taken against people who not only changed their faith, but their allegiances. Given that the state of Medina was constantly in a state of war, it is understandable that they'd want to keep people from conspiring against the state. Sadly, most Mullahs, learned and otherwise, have confused this with apostasy.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

^ That's because they lack critical thinking skills. A real intelligent human being understands the difference between the statements "believing in another faith" and "believing in another faith, and fighting your faith".

Mullahs just see a lot of big words and get confused.

[khanbabax]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

[QUOTE]

"Under the circumstances, if with reference to Zakat you withhold even as much as a string to tie a camel, as a Caliph of the Holy Prophet, it will be my duty to fight for it whatever the consequences."

[/QUOTE]

Salam,

Yes this statement of Hazrat Abu Bakar r.a is clear that if they wont give zakat, they are apostates and I will fight them. This is clear cut proof that all types of apostates are killed.

Bukhari *Volume 9, Book 92, Number 388: *

Narrated Abu Huraira: When Allah's Apostle died and Abu Bakr was elected as a Caliph after him, some of the Arabs reverted to disbelief, 'Umar said to Abu Bakr, "How dare you fight the people while Allah's Apostle said, I have been ordered to fight the people till they say 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah' And whoever says: None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' waves his wealth and his life from me unless he deserves a legal punishment lusty, and his account will be with Allah! Abu Bakr said, "By Allah, I will fight him who discriminates between Zakat and prayers, for Zakat is the Compulsory right to be taken from the wealth By Allah, if they refuse to give me even a tying rope which they use to give to Allah's Apostle, I would fight them for withholding it." 'Umar said, 'By Allah, It was nothing, except I saw that Allah had opened the chest of Abu Bakr to the fight, and I came to know for certain that was the truth."

So it doesnt matter who attacked first. Hazrat Abu Bakar had decided to fight them after they refused to give zakat. And Ijma of all the Sahabas is on this and all 4 madhabs.

[hareem01]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

@khanbabax

Salam,

Yes this statement of Hazrat Abu Bakar r.a is clear that if they wont give zakat, they are apostates and I will fight them. This is clear cut proof that all types of apostates are killed.

Bukhari *Volume 9, Book 92, Number 388: *

Narrated Abu Huraira: When Allah's Apostle died and Abu Bakr was elected as a Caliph after him, some of the Arabs reverted to disbelief, 'Umar said to Abu Bakr, "How dare you fight the people while Allah's Apostle said, I have been ordered to fight the people till they say 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah' And whoever says: None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' waves his wealth and his life from me unless he deserves a legal punishment lusty, and his account will be with Allah! Abu Bakr said, "By Allah, I will fight him who discriminates between Zakat and prayers, for Zakat is the Compulsory right to be taken from the wealth By Allah, if they refuse to give me even a tying rope which they use to give to Allah's Apostle, I would fight them for withholding it." 'Umar said, 'By Allah, It was nothing, except I saw that Allah had opened the chest of Abu Bakr to the fight, and I came to know for certain that was the truth."

So it doesnt matter who attacked first. Hazrat Abu Bakar had decided to fight them after they refused to give zakat. And Ijma of all the Sahabas is on this and all 4 madhabs.

salaam brother
"fighting against them" doesn't necessarily mean to kill them or may be it is, Allah hu alim.

The four opinions you gave from 4 schools of thought have used word "renegade".

Then there is also this hadith that SlaveofAllaah has posted.

Narrated by Bukhari Vol 9, hadith 316
Jabir ibn `Abdullah narrated that a Bedouin pledged allegiance to the Apostle of Allah for Islam (i.e. accepted Islam) and then the Bedouin got fever whereupon he said to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) "cancel my pledge." But the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) refused. He (the Bedouin) came to him (again) saying, "Cancel my pledge." But the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) refused. Then he (the Bedouin) left (Medina). Allah's Apostle said, "Madinah is like a pair of bellows (furnace): it expels its impurities and brightens and clear its good."

Brother I will not argue with you anymore on this issue as I respect you a lot and I trust you and agree with you mostly.

wasalaam

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

Fighting isn’t the same thing as killing.

If they’re not paying their taxes, they get punished. Happens in most civilized parts of the world. It doesn’t mean you get your head chopped off if you didn’t pay your taxes (which basically Zakat was the equivalent of one tax at the time).

This is your problem. You’re trigger-happy. Any incentive to hurt others and you take it to the extreme.

[Shaheen]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

@PyariCgudia

This is your problem. You’re trigger-happy. Any incentive to hurt others and you take it to the extreme.

Fataawa-e-Raast baaz
Edition: 7
Page number 420
az Muftan PyariCgudia

[khanbabax]

Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

salaam brother "fighting against them" doesn't necessarily mean to kill them or may be it is, Allah hu alim.

The four opinions you gave from 4 schools of thought have used word "renegade".

Salam,

Ok my last post unless something new comes up. =) Everyone is free to chose what he wants, and I will stick to the Ijma of Sahabas and 4 Imams and all the scholars of 4 madhbas till now. Its only last 100 years or so people have started to question many of the commandments and orders of Islam because they are so heavily influenced by the West. They look at everything through Western eyes and they think this punishmenet is cruel.

But here it means to kill the apostate, we will see it in the context of the ahadees of the Prophet s.a.w (which doesnt differenciate between any types of the apostate, or Prophet s.a.w would have restricted in only to the traitor). This is how it was understood by the students of the Sahabas as they studied under the Sahabas and they knew the meaning of these statements.

Also in the 4 madhabs, there is no differenciation between the different types of apostates.

Also keep in mind this cannot be referring to traitor since why would you give a traitor 3 days to repent? Thats whole different issue.

Also keep in mind that the people who refused to give zakat, Sahabas referred to them as apostates (murtads) and not rebels.

Let me give few more examples of the Khulfa e Rashideen:

Let start with Hazrat Abu Bakar, and his wars against the apostates.

[quote]

I have come to know about the movement of those among you who have accepted following Satan and who, having no fear of God, have turned from Islam to kufr. Now I have sent you someone with an army of faithful followers[24] and have advised him to accept nothing from anyone except faith and to execute no one without first inviting him to God, the Mighty and Glorious One. Then whoever accepts his invitation to God and, after confession, maintains good conduct, he will accept his confession and assist him in walking in the right path. And he will fight whoever refuses until he returns to the commandment of God. And he has been ordered to leave no one alive whom he has seized among those who have refused, to set fire to their villages, to destroy them, to enslave their women and children and to accept nothing from anyone except Islam. Thus whoever accepts his word does it for his own good and whoever does not will not be able to impoverish God. I have also directed the commander whom I have sent to announce my plan in all your assemblies and that the sign of accepting Islam is the call to prayer. Do not oppose the village where the call to prayer is heard. Where there is no call to prayer, ask the people why. If they refuse, attack them. If they confess, treat them as they deserve.

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al-Badayah w'al-Nahayah (Vol. 6, p. 316).

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A man who was formerly a Christian, then was Muslim, and again became a Christian was brought before Ali. Ali asked him: What is the cause of your conduct? He replied: I have found the religion of the Christians better than your religion. Ali asked: What is your belief about Jesus? He said: He is my Lord (Rabb); or else he said: He is Lord of Ali. Hearing this, Ali ordered that he be executed.

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.Tahawi, Kitab al-Siyar, Bahth Istitabat al-Murtadd

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Sad ibn Abi Waqqas and Abu Musa Ashari sent a messenger to Umar after the Battle of Tustar. The messenger presented a report of the events to Umar. Finally Umar asked: Did anything unusual happen? He said: Yes, Leader of the Faithful. We caught an Arab who had become a kafir after accepting Islam. Umar asked: Then what did you do with him? He said: We killed him. At that, Umar said: Why did you not confine him to a room, put a lock on the door, keep him there for three days and daily throw him a loaf of bread? Perhaps during that time he may have repented. O God! This act did not take place at my command or in my presence; nor after hearing about it am I pleased with it. Nevertheless Umar enquired no further about the matter from Sad and Abu Musa Ashari, nor did he plan to punish them.
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This proves that the action of Sad and Abu Musa was indeed within the limits of the law, but that in Umar's opinion it would have been much better to have given the person an opportunity to repent before killing him.

Tahawi, Kitab al-Siyar, Bahth Istitabat al-Murtadd; also Bayhaqi, Muwatta; al-Shafi'i, Kitab al-Umm.

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Ali was informed about a group of Christians who had become Muslims and then became Christians again. Ali arrested them, summoned them before himself and enquired about the truth of the matter. They said: We were Christians. Then we were offered the choice of remaining Christians or becoming Muslims. We chose Islam. But now it is our opinion that no religion is more excellent than our first religion. Therefore we have become Christians now. Hearing this, Ali ordered these people to be executed and their children enslaved.

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