Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

It is a serious matter. To be become a Muslim is not a process that should be taken lightly. It is something that we make a commitment for life. Let the munafiqeens be judged in the afterlife.

To condone conversion out of Islam, is to make a mockery of the faith.

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

Sorry but a big NO.

see if i face a christian and tell him about the whole matter i need a quranic verse to show so i can base my claim on. Not an Hadeeth.

Since i reject all other claims from a christian which have other sources than the Holy Bible i'm bound to represent myself (and thus Islam) in the same manner

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

Christians don't have faith in Quran either. So what's the point?

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

There is no need to say Sorry to me.

If you could've convinced a christian just by Quran, wouldn't he be a muslim by now. Its your confusion about not acceptin Hadeeth, not your christian friend

Many scholars beleive (and I follow that thought process) that Prophet (PBUH) did not utter a single word where Allah (SWT)'s agreement was not present. Nabi and Rasools do not speak their mind, they speak commandments of Allah.

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

maybe u misunderstood me.

What i meant was: If a christian talks to me about Christianity and refers to other sources than the Holy Bible i won't accept that. Similar if i talk about Islam to a christian then he is bound to reject any source other than the holy Qur'an on this very basis.

I don't disagree with the status of Ahadeeth in Islam but a Hadeeth can be weak but a Quranic verse not.

Is there any occasion where someone who converted out of Islam (say a he/she became a christian) during the time of the Holy Prophet Hazrat Mohammad SAW and thus recevied severe punishment or any punishment at all?

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

I am sorry that if I misunderstood you.

The hadeeth I mentioned is from Bukhari so its not a weak one. Its actually very amazing to read about Imam Bukhari and how he set the criteria of selecting Hadith. Regardless of the topic we are discussing, reading his biagraphy is a good recomendation

I am not aware of any incident where someone was punsihed in prophet's life. I will try to find one. If you come across one, please share wiht us

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

And would u please elaborate to which Power one does that commitment ?

If ur answer is "The Almighty Lord Allah SWT" then leave such judgement like "making a mockery of faith" to that very Power.

'‘Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them the way’’. Surah 4. Women , ayahat 137 ]

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

:salam:

Bhai, the most commonly held view of apostacy is one in which are person is actually rebelling against a particular cause and joining an opposing cause. A law is a law however not a law if it does not take into account the circumstances.

Every example we have from our history is when muslims were at war and the apostates would fall into the opposite camp of those who are fighting the muslims. Its not just abandoning a faith but choosing to be enemies of the muslims. This is the particular type of apostacy that happened in the Prophet SAW time. And for that I whole sole agree with a capital punishment. This situation is akin to that of a Defector in modern terminology. And keeping Islam side even nations today award the severest of punishments for that. A present day example of that would the case of John Walker Lindh.

However this is not the point I have been trying to make. Apostacy is not always a rebellion. You might say it is a rebellion against Allah SWT but then isn’t everyone who is not a muslim in rebellion then, we should start killing them (unfortunately this is how jihadi’s are recruited).

Let me give you an example. Say muslims have a peace treaty with some non-muslim nation or clan or tribe. Now a person from that non-muslim nation is not satisfied with his religion or finds things in it confusing and explores Islam, He finds it acceptable over his religion and takes a Shahada. After a while he is not satisfied with his choice and has found answers to stuff in his previous religion. He now decides that he wants to go back to his previous religion because now he thinks he is convinced of its truth. His act of abandoning Islam and going back to his previous religion would be termed apostacy. However the muslims have a peace treaty with his nation and his nation is not hostile towards muslims but live in peace with them. This person on returning to his nation will not take up arms against the muslims. Now what should the ruler of the muslims do? Put the man to death or hand him back to his nation and be in peace with them.

Most of the apostacies in the days of the Prophet SAW were motivated by hatred, espionage or conspiracy. In todays pluralistic world, this is not always the case. In fact most people who apostasize from Islam are those who have been treated poorly in their communities and denied lawful rights by their governments. Most of these people are victims of circumstance and less of motivated conspirators. So tell me who really is the blameworthy party here? Is it the rulers who have deprived or failed to satisfy the welfare of their nation or the person who is seeking a helping hand to alleviate his circumstances and falls for some other missionaries motivation. Should the apostate in this case be put to death or helped out of his misery? He did not apostasize because he hates Islam but because the flagbearers of Islam in his time have failed to provide him the fruits of an Islamic environment. And if the root cause is not addressed the number of apostates will not decrease but rather increase.

Laws are not applied soley on actions but based on the reasons for those actions.

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

[quote]
Most of these people are victims of circumstance and less of motivated conspirators. So tell me who really is the blameworthy party here?
[/quote]
Bro do you really think this question will change opinions? If it does, then I am very happy for whoever understands what you have just said.

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

DEALING WITH APOSTASY

As observed above the Quran expects us to deal with apostates like other *kuff*a*r*. Therefore the Quranic guidance for dealing with the apostates is essentially the same as its guidance for dealing with other kuff*a*r. Briefly, this guidance is that we should treat them according to the degree of friendship or hostility they show to Islam and Muslims. To translate this into more specific guidance we can divide apostates in three categories and see how each category is to be treated:

1) An apostate leaves Islam because of ignorance of Islam or some confusion that leads him to think that his new religion or way is truer and better. Such a person will be willing to listen to the Muslims if they want to show him that he has made a mistake. The Muslims should treat him kindly and argue with him in the best possible way. (60:8, 16:125). But Muslims should be careful not to show him more kindness than they show to other Muslims, for, otherwise the apostate may be encouraged to stay an apostate.

2) An apostate leaves Islam, not out of a belief that he is moving to something truer and better, but to satisfy some of his worldly desires, e. g., to get greater importance or more comfortable life or greater acceptance of his lifestyle such as homosexual lifestyle. A sign of such an apostate is that he shows little inclination to listen to any reasoning. If such an apostate does not engage in any hostile activity against Islam and Muslims, he should not be subjected to any active hostility (4:90). But since he has clearly preferred kufr over im*a*n the following commandment of God will apply:

O you who believe! Do not take for friends and allies (even) your fathers and your brothers if they love disbelief more than faith: if any of you do so, they are the wrong doers. (9:23)

.............. read more in next post.

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

According to some traditions “this ayah was revealed concerning those nine men who after apostasy went to Makkah”. (Panipati, Tafsir Mazhari)

Beyond avoiding friendship and alliance with apostates of this second type, the Muslims can impose boycott against them, since such boycott was imposed by the Prophet on the three Companions mentioned in 9:118. These three Companions did not commit apostasy but simply failed to join the Muslims in jihad without a good reason.

3) The third type of apostate is one who leaves Islam and then engages in hostile actions against Islam and Muslims, e.g. knowingly engages in propaganda against Islam and Muslims blatantly ignoring facts that he is expected to know well, passes secrets to the enemy, takes part in fighting against the Muslims. Such an apostate can be punished by anything from exile to death.

And God knows better!

http://www.islamicperspectives.com/Apostasy1.htm#_edn5

Very well written by Ahmad Shafaat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shafaat

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

That means u can’t just go on and demand capital punishment becoz someone has converted to another religion.

Thanx for the explanation.

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

The commitment is towards following the guidelines of the faith. These guidelines are from the divine but understood to be practiced as long as we are alive in this world.

If we go by your argument to "let Allah decide" then why not walk naked on the street, drink alcohol constantly, and eat swine? After all many Muslims do that as well. I am not about fall into that trap of political correctness, secular-humanism BS. NO, if you become a Muslim you are required to follow a set of stringent rules. The faith disciplines towards becoming a better human being.

If we stop caring about our faith or the greater Ummah, we will be headed towards that same road of the Judeo-Christian west where religion has become analogous with backwardness, derided as faulty and its adherents in name only.

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

:salam: Behna

The author pretty much said what I had been saying from the beginning. To summarize, the actions of a person that follow his apostacy determine his fate. Or in other words apotasy has degrees of which all are not subject to capital punishment.

Sigh!!! Sometimes I wish people had the intelligence to understand the knowledge they present.

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

Whats worse - killing or apostacy?

Whats the penalty for killing?

Ok then.

There is ijma' that the apostate is put to death as cited by Hafiz Ibn Hajar 'Asqalani in his Fath al Bari - a consensus that was reached during the time of the Companions themselves which makes it of the highest form.

This is consensus is also mentioned in al Jawhara's Nawadir al Ijma' and by Ibn Qattan in his book on Ijma'.

To go against the Ijma of Sahabas is in the least haram and can lead to kufar at time. This is not a game but a serious issue. Personal opinions of any scholar doesnt hold any water against the Ijma of Sahabas (which is a qatee proof in Sharia) let alone view of Gup-Shupers (which is a qatee proof in Sharia).

The Fuqaha (Jurists)

All the 4 Mazhabs are unanimous that a renegade must be executed if he does not revert to Islam. Hereunder are classical texts from each of the 4 Mazhabs:

Al-Hanafiyyah

Imam al-Marghinaaniy says: "If a Muslim, may Allah forbid turns away from Islam, the religion of Islam should be presented to him. If he has any doubts they should be cleared…and he should be kept under supervision for 3 days. If he reverts to Islam, he must be set free, otherwise he should be executed. (Al-Hidaya)

Allamah Ibn ‘Aabideen says: "Note well! It is unanimous that a renegade from Islam must be executed" (Rasaa’il Ibn Aabideen)

Al-Maalikiyyah

Imam Maalik says: "The one who renegades from Islam to another religion and exposes it will be asked to repent from his action. If he does not repent, he must be executed." (Al-Mu’atta lil Imam Maalik)

Al-shaafi’iyyah

Imam al-Shaafi’iy says: "One who renegades from Islam will not be left alone, either he reverts to Islam or he will be executed." (Kitab al-Umm)

Al-Hanaabilah

Allamah Ibn Qudaama al-Hanbaliy says: "All the scholars are unanimous that a renegade must be executed." (Al-Mughniy with Sharh al-Kabir Vol.10 Pg.74 Dar al-Kutub al-Ilmiyyah Beirut)

From the above it is explicitly clear that there is no leeway in the religion of Islam regarding executing a renegade from Islam.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions


First of, either use friends or allies. The word is Aooliyaa and that's all. Secondly, Aooliyaa has almost always been translated incorrectly. It does not mean allies... it means PROTECTORS. The verse implies that those who do not share your belief will not protect your way of life for you. It is a pragmatic statement!

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

Thank you bro. You hard work in forwarding true light of Islam is much appreciated. The Hanafi view appeals to me the most because it allows the apostate to be exposed to the virtues of Islam, given the opportunity to think on his own. It is not my desire or intention to downgrade the other respected imams.

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

All 4 madhabs have this option, if you revert back (they just have differences over how much time can be given), then you are not punished.

Also in Hanafi fiqh, women can't be executed for apostacy, but she will be given life sentence.

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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

bro, exposed and then what, if he has a difference of opinion then hang'im high? This is one more reason why I cannot accept these schools of thought.

Aaj Kiss Baat Par Gussa Aaya ??????
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Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions

Bro, we are all Muslims here right? We don't need to dilute the religion so that it is PC. If he has a difference of opinion than so be it, that executioner would be supported by Orthodox Islam.

You can pick and choose tenets of Islam to match your lifestyle but do realize that you will not have the theological support to back up your assertions.

Shifting gears to the reality, can you identify cases where the apostates were actually hanged by the government/Islamic court? You will note that they have been few and far in between.