Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
You convince me more and more bro KBX :)
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
How can anyone who only remains a Muslim by fear of death be an actual Muslim?
I'll follow the Quran on this.
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
How can anyone who only remains a Muslim by fear of death be an actual Muslim?
I'll follow the Quran on this.
Correct!
Islam is Submission to THE GOD, not submission to fear. Anyone who has taken on a "muslim" persona under peer pressure or threat is not muslim so how could he be an apostate if he finally breaks free of fear?
If anything, he is NOT MUSHRIK anymore in that sense.
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
Other point to add is none of them have brought any reference from the Quran, these actually shows the sad state of Muslims today, i again write we have become hadith worshippers following Islam blindly.
The Quran is just thrown into the bin and is just used for recitation. Well the earlier caliphs ruled by the Quran and they were successful. I fear this stage of muslims blind following.
Guess what even the sahaba karam radiAllaahuanhom, used to verify hadith from different sahaba most of the times. Here we are made to blindly follow the Imam system without questioning as this is become a trend.
Even in case of doubt we shoudnt be questioning ourselves, which again goes against the Quranic verses, even the sahaba karam used to question the Prophet in case of doubt.
Prophet itself is mentioned Islam as a religion make it easy, but our brethren today have made it the most toughest, by following something which is not within the Islamic fold.
I repeat again no one has brought verses from the Quran stating the apostate, and when we mention the idea of belief and then disbelief from the Quran none can counter. If people can bring Hadith i too, we too have brought hadith.
But cant help May Allaah help those who follow stuff blindly and associate falsehood to the Prophet.
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
Islam was meant to abolish the system of priesthood (for sunnis anyway) and misinterpretation by humans, but this seems to be what is actually happening.
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
To all who still refer to Ahadeeth and other but not the Holy Qur'an:
Give me please one surah/ayah from the Holy Qur'an where it's explicitly allowed to punish those who convert out of Islam. just one example !!!!!
As Khehkeshan said how can u be a Muslim just by fearing some misguided ones, those who look to punish u if u convert to any other religion.
Wake up PPL.
La Iqra'ha fid'deen. If this means something to u'll stop calling for Punishment for apostacy. But oh well it's all wishful thinking i guess.
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
They use the example of Moses saying to the isrealites: uqtiloo anfusikum... kill your nafs/ego... and they translate it as "kill yourselves (the wrongdoers)", which of course does not make sense since it is based on a biblical insertion... If God needed to say "the wrongdoers", it would have been expressed explicitly (God makes mistakes?)
To all who still refer to Ahadeeth and other but not the Holy Qur'an:
Give me please one surah/ayah from the Holy Qur'an where it's explicitly allowed to punish those who convert out of Islam. just one example !!!!!
As Khehkeshan said how can u be a Muslim just by fearing some misguided ones, those who look to punish u if u convert to any other religion.
Wake up PPL.
La Iqra'ha fid'deen. If this means something to u'll stop calling for Punishment for apostacy. But oh well it's all wishful thinking i guess.
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
To me there is no such thing as unchangeable. Even if HQ said people should not convert, it doesn't matter in current day circumstances where society, politics technology, economy everything is different from centuries ago.
People who refuse to change will surely cause terminal damage to their own cause. a living breathing religion is better than a stifled dead one.
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
To me there is no such thing as unchangeable. Even if HQ said people should not convert, it doesn't matter in current day circumstances where society, politics technology, economy everything is different from centuries ago.
People who refuse to change will surely cause terminal damage to their own cause. a living breathing religion is better than a stifled dead one.
The HQ does not talk about converting and reverting as such... it is a person's own choice: "The right has been made clear from the wrong" and whoever turn away, "hurt their own SELF".
The nations mentioned in the Quran all perished for violating human rights. Their customs and tradition were too important to them than socioeconomic welfare. They hence perished as inscribed stones fell on them (their own actions came back to haunt them). I fear our "muslim" society is on the same path...
The law of the universe (the inscribed/sijjeel) is simple... what you do to others will come right back at you.
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
How can anyone who only remains a Muslim by fear of death be an actual Muslim?
I'll follow the Quran on this.
Looks like the supporters of death for apostasy are not willing to answer this as they know logic, common sense and the Quran is not on their side. However the misinterpretations of some humans are on their side and it is good enough for them!
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
Looks like the supporters of death for apostasy are not willing to answer this as they know logic, common sense and the Quran is not on their side. However the misinterpretations of some humans are on their side and it is good enough for them!
exactly. If that doesn't prove the sly wicked self centered reasons of the religious sermons what else will? the mullahs are about to claim that HQ says they are above Allah
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
Bro Khanbabax, I have made my points very clear in this thread. The ahadith you posted are not guaranteed to be complete and have no historical context attached with them. So generalizing them is a mistake. Most of the ahadith talk about renegade apostates. Hadith are often explained by other ahadith. You have a general hadith and then another which made it more specific, some people may also call it Naskh in a sense. However this is a danger in the study of hadith or taking a few ahadith in isolation whilst ignoring all the others, the ahadith you have are not guaranteed to be complete, which is why you find ahadith on the very same topic with differing content. Some appear more general and some more specific with more detail in them.
With the ahadith we have scholars think there can be no other ruling except what they have. I would accept that if you could guarantee the ahadith collections are complete w.r.t everything the Prophet SAW ever uttered.
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
exactly. If that doesn't prove the sly wicked self centered reasons of the religious sermons what else will? the mullahs are about to claim that HQ says they are above Allah
They already have by claiming that hadith are superior to the Quran (nauzubillah)! Just like they have declared suicide as halal, there are no limits to their fitna.
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
if you consider islam as rules of country , then non muslim who obeys the rule can live, but who first adopt and then openly declare that i am leaving for so and so reason
then you can understand why islam declares then to leave the country othewise you will be killed because you will become cause of fitna
but in the country like Pakistan where religion and country rules are different there is no need that that ex-muslim should be killed unless he starts working against islam, but the one who declares himself ex-pakistan and indian and wants to live in Pakistan , will be forced to leave pakistan or otherwise will be punished
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
if you consider islam as rules of country , then non muslim who obeys the rule can live, but who first adopt and then openly declare that i am leaving for so and so reason then you can understand why islam declares then to leave the country othewise you will be killed because you will become cause of fitna
but in the country like Pakistan where religion and country rules are different there is no need that that ex-muslim should be killed unless he starts working against islam, but the one who declares himself ex-pakistan and indian and wants to live in Pakistan , will be forced to leave pakistan or otherwise will be punished
I agree with your point. I had even stated this before which doesn't seem to ring a bell to many people.
I just don't understand why people cannot understand you do not need to be a scholar to understand your religion. The Prophet SAW ruled with nothing other than the Quran, guidance from Allah SWT and his wisdom along with wisdom of his companions. No elaborate fiqha or scholarship was involved. They took the principles of Quran and used all sorts of worldly wisdom to apply it.
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
That people have made Islam into mafia.
Is there any reference from HQ as well or not? It’s very simple yes or no answer.
Walking naked in public and all usually effects the people around you, and if somebody eating pork how he is effecting the people around him. Too much religion and you guys start comparing tamatar and aaloo togather.
Grinding the gears to halt! Even if one man was killed because of something which was misrepresented is too much.
Who is afraid.
Oh yes, thanx for reminding. THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION. This straight from HQ, (some people will come now and say it was abbrogated by hadees)
Very good post SOA.
Yeah I remember the thread.
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
if you consider islam as rules of country , then non muslim who obeys the rule can live, but who first adopt and then openly declare that i am leaving for so and so reason then you can understand why islam declares then to leave the country othewise you will be killed because you will become cause of fitna
but in the country like Pakistan where religion and country rules are different there is no need that that ex-muslim should be killed unless he starts working against islam, but the one who declares himself ex-pakistan and indian and wants to live in Pakistan , will be forced to leave pakistan or otherwise will be punished
Exactly.
I agree with your point. I had even stated this before which doesn't seem to ring a bell to many people.
I just don't understand why people cannot understand you do not need to be a scholar to understand your religion. The Prophet SAW ruled with nothing other than the Quran, guidance from Allah SWT and his wisdom along with wisdom of his companions. No elaborate fiqha or scholarship was involved. They took the principles of Quran and used all sorts of worldly wisdom to apply it.
Keep up the good work they may understand one day.
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
Bottom line - you cannot comel anyone to follow what they don't want to. If you try to force them by enticement or threat by any means you are a terrorist by civilized definitions.Either the orthomuslims grow up and embrace post-industrial revolution or be sent back to caves. Misreading and misrepresenting HQ will no longer work - as you can see in this thread and board, anytime somebody pompously starts quoting ahdith HQ their ignorance is exposed quite routinely
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
^Case closed.
Re: Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert to other religions
^Case closed.