Eating halal food

[Mirch]

@wondergurl

Hadith is a source of guidance in these matters

On the authority of Abu Ya’la Shahddad ibn Aus, the Messenger of Allah said: “Verily Allah has prescribed proficiency in all things. Thus, if you kill, kill well; and if you slaughter, slaughter well. Let each one of you sharpen his blade and let him spare suffering to the animal he slaughters” (Muslim).

In an incident narrated by Rafi’ bin Khadij, the Prophet told Muslims who wanted to slaughter some animals using reeds, “Use whatever causes blood to flow, and eat the animals if the Name of Allah has been mentioned on slaughtering them…” (Bukhari).

** Islam being the final and perfect way of life for humanity, it supersedes all the previously revealed religions including Christianity and Judaism. The rituals in all matters were perfected by God (al-Quran 5:3)
**
Jews do not pronounce the name of God on each animal while slaughtering. They feel that uttering the name of God, out of context, is wasteful. Muslims on the other hand pronounce the name of Allah on all animals while slaughtering.

Based on the book, Islamic Dietary Concepts And Practices by M.M. Hussaini

These ahadees do not dictate how ahle kitab or people of book should be doing it. It is telling Muslims how they should be doing it .

Verse 5 of Sura a Miada is not specifying what you can eat or what you cannot eat at people of faith/book. sura Al Inaam verse 121 is not limited to saying name of Allah on animals while slaughtering an animal. You do not eat the raw meat you eat after it has been cooked then it becomes food. Raw meat is not food for Muslims.
It is saying for you can eat food of ahle kitab and they can eat your food. ( now again don’t bring the pig into picture that has been clarified already.)

[psyah]

Re: Eating halal food

^ Peace Mirch

When you read passages from the Qur'an please read the full context.

In Surah Al-An'am read from verse 118 through until 121. You will see that:

1) It shows that [food] is permissible when Allah (SWT) Name has been pronounced over it.
2) In verse 119 it points to other verses in the Qur'an where the details of the [food] in question is forbidden. The clue to where to go is where it refers to the parts 'except under compulsion'
3) It negates the eating of this [food] if Allah's Name has not been pronounced over it.

By verse 121 alone if we are to assume that this [food] refers to all food then everything is haram even vegetables unless Allah's Name has been pronounced over it. So I say that it is not every food rather it is every food talked about in those verses which are pointed to in verse 119.

So let's go to those verses:

Surah Al-Baqarah 173
Surah Al-An'am 145

In the second citing verse 6:145 It clarifies that everything is permissible unless ... and then gives its conditions. It talks about meat in this verse and talks about slaughtered for others than Allah. This is what links to the part about Allah's Name being or not being pronounced over the food in the earlier passages.

Going to 2:173 you see that this is echoed. In both of these reference verses you see the links to the term "unless forced by necessity"

It therefore means that the verses from 118 through to 121 must be talking about meat and nothing except meat.

[rozendeva]

^ Peace Mirch

When you read passages from the Qur'an please read the full context.

In Surah Al-An'am read from verse 118 through until 121. You will see that:

1) It shows that [food] is permissible when Allah (SWT) Name has been pronounced over it. 2) In verse 119 it points to other verses in the Qur'an where the details of the [food] in question is forbidden. The clue to where to go is where it refers to the parts 'except under compulsion' 3) It negates the eating of this [food] if Allah's Name has not been pronounced over it.

By verse 121 alone if we are to assume that this [food] refers to all food then everything is haram even vegetables unless Allah's Name has been pronounced over it. So I say that it is not every food rather it is every food talked about in those verses which are pointed to in verse 119.

So let's go to those verses:

Surah Al-Baqarah 173 Surah Al-An'am 145

In the second citing verse 6:145 It clarifies that everything is permissible unless ... and then gives its conditions. It talks about meat in this verse and talks about slaughtered for others than Allah. This is what links to the part about Allah's Name being or not being pronounced over the food in the earlier passages.

Going to 2:173 you see that this is echoed. In both of these reference verses you see the links to the term "unless forced by necessity"

It therefore means that the verses from 118 through to 121 must be talking about meat and nothing except meat.

Well Explained Psyah...

[_RestLess]

^ Peace Mirch

When you read passages from the Qur'an please read the full context.

In Surah Al-An'am read from verse 118 through until 121. You will see that:

1) It shows that [food] is permissible when Allah (SWT) Name has been pronounced over it. 2) In verse 119 it points to other verses in the Qur'an where the details of the [food] in question is forbidden. The clue to where to go is where it refers to the parts 'except under compulsion' 3) It negates the eating of this [food] if Allah's Name has not been pronounced over it.

By verse 121 alone if we are to assume that this [food] refers to all food then everything is haram even vegetables unless Allah's Name has been pronounced over it. So I say that it is not every food rather it is every food talked about in those verses which are pointed to in verse 119.

So let's go to those verses:

Surah Al-Baqarah 173 Surah Al-An'am 145

In the second citing verse 6:145 It clarifies that everything is permissible unless ... and then gives its conditions. It talks about meat in this verse and talks about slaughtered for others than Allah. This is what links to the part about Allah's Name being or not being pronounced over the food in the earlier passages.

Going to 2:173 you see that this is echoed. In both of these reference verses you see the links to the term "unless forced by necessity"

It therefore means that the verses from 118 through to 121 must be talking about meat and nothing except meat.

But Psyah, slaughtering for others than Allah and Allah's name not being
pronounced while slaughtering are two completely different things. Please resolve the confusion.

[psyah]

But Psyah, slaughtering for others than Allah and Allah's name not being pronounced while slaughtering are two completely different things. Please resolve the confusion.

Peace RestLess

Okay I think they are not two completely different things, but you do.

When we slaughter we say ... Bismillah i.e. in the Name of Allah (SWT) the purpose is that we are acting out the Sunnah of Ibrahim (AS) who sacrificed (by intention) his son for Allah (SWT) ... the life we take hence such as the animal we slaughter is to be done as a sacrifice and the words pronounced over it reflect this intent.

Other than this if you read verse 6:119 which I did not provide the full translation but shall do now ...

"And why should you not eat of that on which Allah's Name has been pronounced while He has explained to you in detail what is forbidden to you, except under compulsion of necessity? And surely, many do lead astray by their own desires through lack of knowledge. Certainly your Lord knows best the transgressors."

The term "wa qad" means the above red text in the context of the ayat. It connects the verse which contains the injunction to pronounce the Name of Allah over [food] to the verses which talk about the slaughter of meat. Now based on this connection what other meaning could pronouncing the Name of Allah take?

And even if we do pronounce the Name of Allah it is not a hollow action it has intent ... the intent is that it is done for Allah.

Lastly, the contention is that the verses 118 - 121 of Surah 6 do not openly state what type of food. In fact they don't even state food. Those verses could be talking about tree bark but we take the normal intent to mean food and then we take the context to mean meat.

[RealityCheck]

If you pay attention to what I and Hareem are discussing with the help of Quranic verses you will be able to decide on your own Inshallah , one way or the other. On personal note I do not eat non zabiha but more I read Quran and more I learn Arabic vocabulary and grammar the more I am leaning toward eating McDonals , I have not started that yet. This discussion is purely academic to resolves all the doubts in my mind.

Brother, just the fact that you are leaning towards eating McDonalds tells me that you are trying to read and understand Quran on your own and obviously not making good judgments.

You need help of an Alim to really understand what's being said in the Quran. Food at the McDonalds is declared haram by the most Muftis (not by some Google Molvi).

No matter what meanings of your personal likings you extract from Quran, McDonalds will stay Haram.

[psyah]

Re: Eating halal food

^^ Based on the above we have three conditions for meat:

1) That which is slaughtered for Allah (SWT) in accordance with the other rules
2) That which is not slaughtered for Allah (SWT)
3) That which has been slaughtered for anything other than Allah (SWT)

2) is given by verse 6:121
3) is given by verse 2:173 and 6:145

[RealityCheck]

a very wrong and confused understanding of halal....

a cow/sheep not slaughtered properly is also haraam just as a pig is haraam.... it is only halal if slaughtered according to Islamic rites....

Agree with you about Diwan's coments, he really needs help in understanding all this Halal/Haram issue.

A certain live animal (permitted for Muslims to eat by Allah) can be called Halal but not Zabiha.

Zabiha is a meat of a Halal animal slaughtered according to the Islamic teachings.

And Allah knows best...

[psyah]

Re: Eating halal food

Definitions:

Zabihah = slaughtered

Halal = Lawful

Haram = Forbidden

Condition for Halal meat = zabihah + Cannot be slaughtered with no Name pronounced + cannot be slaughtered with any other Name than Allah/God pronounced + the animals that are Halal.

The meat of a lawful (halal) animal will therefore be unlawful (haram) if it is not slaughtered properly with the rites.

[RealityCheck]

Definitions:

Zabihah = slaughtered

Halal = Lawful

Haram = Forbidden

Condition for Halal meat = zabihah + Cannot be slaughtered with no Name pronounced + cannot be slaughtered with any other Name than Allah/God pronounced + the animals that are Halal.

The meat of a lawful (halal) animal will therefore be unlawful (haram) if it is not slaughtered properly with the rites.

said the same thing above in 2 lines instead of 8....lol

[Mirch]

Re: Eating halal food

One thing I noticed that Yousuf Ali was clearly a meat eater he has added word meat in translation of Quran. That makes his translation biased though because was leaning to a certain position a group of Islamic Scholars take.
Now here is the translation of Sura Al Anaam verse 119 it is also clearly saying that we cannot eat any kind of food on which name of Allah has not been pronounced it means that whenever we sit to eat we have to say the name of Allah , nowhere it is mentioning or pointing to slaughtering an animal in the name of Allah. There is no mention of animal , slaughter or laham which is meat. It is pointing to the fact that we are not allowed to eat anything without saying the name of Allah. Yes in addition to stating the fact that we are not allowed to eat anything on which name of Allah has not been said it is is also pointing to those things which have been specifically made haram , like pigs meat, blood , dead animals etc etc.

*006.119 * *
YUSUFALI: Why should ye not eat of (meats) on which Allah's name hath been pronounced, when He hath explained to you in detail what is forbidden to you - except under compulsion of necessity? But many do mislead (men) by their appetites unchecked by knowledge. Thy Lord knoweth best those who transgress.
PICKTHAL: How should ye not eat of that over which the name of Allah hath been mentioned, when He hath explained unto you that which is forbidden unto you unless ye are compelled thereto. But lo! many are led astray by their own lusts through ignorance. Lo! thy Lord, He is Best Aware of the transgressors.
SHAKIR: And what reason have you that you should not eat of that on which Allah's name has been mentioned, and He has already made plain to you what He has forbidden to you-- excepting what you are compelled to; and most surely many would lead (people) astray by their low desires out of ignorance; surely your Lord-- He best knows those who exceed the limits.
*

Now let us look at verse 145 of Sura Al Anaam. It gives specific list of those things which are haram.
This list does not include the food of people of faith, if it was there to cancel the Verse 5 of Sura maida it will mention that , it is not mentioned here. Why not because That persmission is still there.
It forbids eating from the animal which was sacrificed in the name of any other diety other than Allah. This order and prohibition is strictly for sacrifical animals not for those animals which are slaughtered for sale in the market place . If they were also slaughtered in the name of any non Allah diety we cannot eat them . But if they were slaughtered without saying the name of non Allah diety then we can eat that by saying the name of Allah as per Sura Al Anaam verse 119 and 121.

006.145
YUSUFALI: Say: "I find not in the message received by me by inspiration any (meat) forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be dead meat, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine,- for it is an abomination - or, what is impious, (meat) on which a name has been invoked, other than Allah's". But (even so), if a person is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- thy Lord is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

PICKTHAL: Say: I find not in that which is revealed unto me aught prohibited to an eater that he eat thereof, except it be carrion, or blood poured forth, or swineflesh - for that verily is foul - or the abomination which was immolated to the name of other than Allah. But whoso is compelled (thereto), neither craving nor transgressing, (for him) lo! thy Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: Say: I do not find in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden for an eater to eat of except that it be what has died of itself, or blood poured forth, or flesh of swine-- for that surely is unclean-- or that which is a transgression, other than (the name of) Allah having been invoked on it; but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring nor exceeding the limit, then surely your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.

[Mirch]

Mirch ... I got into doubt after reading your post and then opened the Quran and checked the verse myself .... the article has the correct verse from the Quran. If you wish , please feel free to check if yourself :

Its Surah Al-Maida verse 5... ...

This should help resolve the queries of why eating any meat that does not have Allah's name recited at slaughter time is haram ... irrespective of who you get it from , another muslim who forgot to say Allah's name , a jew or a christian .

The verse is correct , in the meaning they have added the word meat. Which is not used in this verse. So it invalidates the whole article . Nobody is allowed to add words in Quran.

[Mirch]

@RealityCheck

Brother, just the fact that you are leaning towards eating McDonalds tells me that you are trying to read and understand Quran on your own and obviously not making good judgments.

You need help of an Alim to really understand what’s being said in the Quran. Food at the McDonalds is declared haram by the most Muftis (not by some Google Molvi).

No matter what meanings of your personal likings you extract from Quran, McDonalds will stay Haram.

I didn’t wanna disagree with a MOD but what the ------ lol…where is the fun if you don’t …

Good thing is he can’t move this thread anywhere else…lol

:nono: why can’t we carry a Islamic discussion in an Islamic manner without being presumptuous and judgmental ?

[diwana]

Re: Eating halal food

Bhai Armughal and Reality Check I said the same thing if you read my post again.

I was pointing out what is considered 'halal' meat as a literal meaning. And what is the reason why companies who sell commercial meat products label them as 'Halal'.

Hence care must be taken to see if the label says Zabiha. Using 'literal' meaning of 'halal meat' people sell non-zabiha meat of yet a 'halal animal' regardless how the animal was killed.

I have seen 'Fatwa" from some South African Mufti pasted outside McDonald Shops in Pakistan saying the meat served is 'halal" and people eat it. I guess they could not find a Pakistani Mufti!

[diwana]

^Hope this clarified my earlier post.

Now what I have learned that people have become very picky and unnecessarily strict based upon whoever mufti tells them to do so. Not saying they are wrong and not be respected but if something is not a part of religion then one does not have to strictly follow.

1- There is absolutely no scientific reason behind believing that a jhatka meat is unhealthy.

As long as blood is poured out of body of animal it should be OK.

Cut it slowly or fast, what does that matter? Besides, the hormones or whtever may still be inside meat and its arteries/veins.

One cannot completely get the blood out of meat and we see it on daily basis don't we?

2- Some people also say its Ok if animal is stunned prior to slaughtering since all it does is eliminate animal pain and sufferings. Blood still goes out of animal body specially if it is hanged upside down to make sure if blood is cleared out of body. Any argument?

3- Killing a halal animal in the name other than Allah. is forbidden.

4- If one has any doubt about how the animal was killed. Not slaughtered, hit by accident or drowned. Then it makes sense to refrain from it.

Ever heard of some restaurants which advertised:

"Roadkill Restaurant: From your grill to Our"

or

"You Kill it, we Grill it"

For those who could not understand: It means the meat of animals who were hit by the grill of a vehicle and is served at some restaurants. Particularly a chain of restaurant in New England. It was considered if the animal (mostly mammals, ut it included birds too) is killed rather freshly and did not have disease, it could be consumed.

A side info nothing to do with religion...............

5- if animal is slaughtered properly without the name of Allah or anyone for that matter, then does it matter if name is called after slaughtering such as saying Bismillah before consuming. This is another argument which people make.

[diwana]

The verse is correct , in the meaning they have added the word meat. Which is not used in this verse. So it invalidates the whole article . Nobody is allowed to add words in Quran.

I agree with your point here. If something is not there then its not there. If someone likes to add by making some connection its their prerogative. Nothing to do with religion.

Having said that, people exercise caution based on doubt how the meat was obtained by someone else.

There are people who do not eat meat even at muslims house bought from a halal/zabiha shop, unless they know if the meat was bought from a certain specific shop which they think sells correct zabiha meat.

[psyah]

One thing I noticed that Yousuf Ali was clearly a meat eater he has added word meat in translation of Quran. That makes his translation biased though because was leaning to a certain position a group of Islamic Scholars take. Now here is the translation of Sura Al Anaam verse 119 it is also clearly saying that we cannot eat any kind of food on which name of Allah has not been pronounced it means that whenever we sit to eat we have to say the name of Allah , nowhere it is mentioning or pointing to slaughtering an animal in the name of Allah. There is no mention of animal , slaughter or laham which is meat. It is pointing to the fact that we are not allowed to eat anything without saying the name of Allah. Yes in addition to stating the fact that we are not allowed to eat anything on which name of Allah has not been said it is is also pointing to those things which have been specifically made haram , like pigs meat, blood , dead animals etc etc.

*006.119 * *YUSUFALI: Why should ye not eat of (meats) on which Allah's name hath been pronounced, when He hath explained to you in detail what is forbidden to you - except under compulsion of necessity? But many do mislead (men) by their appetites unchecked by knowledge. Thy Lord knoweth best those who transgress. * *PICKTHAL: How should ye not eat of that over which the name of Allah hath been mentioned, when He hath explained unto you that which is forbidden unto you unless ye are compelled thereto. But lo! many are led astray by their own lusts through ignorance. Lo! thy Lord, He is Best Aware of the transgressors. * *SHAKIR: And what reason have you that you should not eat of that on which Allah's name has been mentioned, and He has already made plain to you what He has forbidden to you-- excepting what you are compelled to; and most surely many would lead (people) astray by their low desires out of ignorance; surely your Lord-- He best knows those who exceed the limits. *

Peace Mirch bro

Verse 119 does not talk about what we cannot eat ... the simplest things you are not getting right. Verse 119 is talking about what we should eat. It is saying like we say in urdu "Tum kyon na khao, wo jis per Allah ka nam pukaragea ho?"
I hope you understand this before we continue.

Next you say above in red bold text that the reason these verses 119 - 121 have are about sitting to eat we must say bismillah, but the verse itself explains what it is about in the parts I have highlighted in red. You are totally ignoring the verse and applying your own understanding.

Verse 121 is the verse that forbids the eating without the name of Allah. *You say these verses are not pointing to the slaughter of animals. I said they are pointing to other verses .... ther term "already explained*" in verse 119 shows that there are other verses which give the context of these ones.

Now let us look at verse 145 of Sura Al Anaam. It gives specific list of those things which are haram. This list does not include the food of people of faith, if it was there to cancel the Verse 5 of Sura maida it will mention that , it is not mentioned here. Why not because That persmission is still there.

It forbids eating from the animal which was sacrificed in the name of any other diety other than Allah. This order and prohibition is strictly for sacrifical animals not for those animals which are slaughtered for sale in the market place . If they were also slaughtered in the name of any non Allah diety we cannot eat them . But if they were slaughtered without saying the name of non Allah diety then we can eat that by saying the name of Allah as per Sura Al Anaam verse 119 and 121.

006.145 * *YUSUFALI: Say: "I find not in the message received by me by inspiration any (meat) forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be dead meat, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine,- for it is an abomination - or, what is impious, (meat) on which a name has been invoked, other than Allah's". But (even so), if a person is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- thy Lord is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. * *PICKTHAL: Say: I find not in that which is revealed unto me aught prohibited to an eater that he eat thereof, except it be carrion, or blood poured forth, or swineflesh - for that verily is foul - or the abomination which was immolated to the name of other than Allah. But whoso is compelled (thereto), neither craving nor transgressing, (for him) lo! thy Lord is Forgiving, Merciful. * *SHAKIR: Say: I do not find in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden for an eater to eat of except that it be what has died of itself, or blood poured forth, or flesh of swine-- for that surely is unclean-- or that which is a transgression, other than (the name of) Allah having been invoked on it; but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring nor exceeding the limit, then surely your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.

It does include the food of the people of the book. Nothing is forbidden to be eaten except:

carrion
blood
swine
impious - (no name of Allah, or for false gods)

This goes for all meats by us or the People of the Book. If you find we or the People of the book have introduced any of the above 4 into their product then it is forbidden.

You say this order is for sacrificial animals and not for animals in the market place. Nothing is allowed to be killed if it is not for sacrifice ... the meat in the market place is hence haram if it is not slaughtered according to this verse. When you read 6:121 you will see that by reading "no name of Allah the meat of that slaughter is haram"

By ignoring this link between the verses you are saying that even vegetables are haram if you don't 'say bismillah before eating' so you are like being extra harsh, but then on the other side so are being extra lenient when you say normal meat in the market is allowed even if it has been slaughtered against the points above, because you say that verse refers to sacrificial meat. This is a joke.

The name of Allah is not the only thing that is required. Blood as you read is also not allowed. Damaged animals i.e. ones that die are also not allowed .... do you think the People of the Book will observe these rules for us?

[rozendeva]

The verse is correct , in the meaning they have added the word meat. Which is not used in this verse. So it invalidates the whole article . Nobody is allowed to add words in Quran.

Mirch , the word meat is being used in the greater context .... and if the writer had meant to change the Quran just to prove his point , trust me , he would have added it in the verse or simply written it in the translation without using the brackets ... yeah?

I recomend please read the article again with an open mind and try to understand the code of conduct being given to us muslims rather then thinking: this or that is missing from the Quran or translation , or this or that is an extra word in the tajweed .....

please try to look at things in the greater context of the Quran as **Psyah **indicated earlier ...because if you dont do that , you will be extremely confused about alot of other topics as well that are discussed in the Quran.

May Allah guide us all .

[hareem01]

One thing I noticed that Yousuf Ali was clearly a meat eater he has added word meat in translation of Quran. That makes his translation biased though because was leaning to a certain position a group of Islamic Scholars take. Now here is the translation of Sura Al Anaam verse 119 it is also clearly saying that we cannot eat any kind of food on which name of Allah has not been pronounced** it means that whenever we sit to eat we have to say the name of Allah **, nowhere it is mentioning or pointing to slaughtering an animal in the name of Allah. There is no mention of animal , slaughter or laham which is meat. It is pointing to the fact that we are not allowed to eat anything without saying the name of Allah. Yes in addition to stating the fact that we are not allowed to eat anything on which name of Allah has not been said it is is also pointing to those things which have been specifically made haram , like pigs meat, blood , dead animals etc etc.

The ayah only says "do not eat of that".....it doesn't say "food" or "anything" like you are translating it. According to your translation which is "do not eat anything without pronouncing the name of Allah makes every kind of food haram for us if we don't say bismillah before eating and thus we are committing sin.

[hareem01]

These ahadees do not dictate how ahle kitab or people of book should be doing it. It is telling Muslims how they should be doing it .

So when muslims slaughter the animals it should be done with conditions [pronouncing Allah's name, using right tools etc] but when Christians and Jews slaughter the animals they don't have to use these conditions but still their meat is halal for us, why? Is it because jews and christians are better than muslims?