I am very interested to learn which sahaba was martyr in cruel ways and had given his children as well and had to have his sister and daughter others be rida and be paraded in front of sharabis.
Other sahaba = Children of Mohammad (pbuh) ??
Enlighten me bhai
Exactly :k:
Sheraz the other thing is I KNOW sunni aunties who respect 10th Muharram they do durood and from 1st to 10th they donāt buy new clothes or suchā¦letās not begin with who said donāt buy new things but some people have their ways to do their mourning and some Sunnis do mournā¦some Sunnis even attend Shiaās majlis and cry together the only thing is they donāt do matamā¦Hope you will understand what I am saying
From what i have heard when he did wuzu his tears wontā stop for when he saw water he remembered ALLā¦and since I assume you all know WHAT happened in Karbala i wonāt go into detailsā¦I also heard he will hold majlises and tell people about the events of karbalaā¦I also heard kay someone was passing through a shop where they sold Bakraās headā¦and then the shopkeeper suddenly covers all the bakraās headā¦the person asks why he does thatā¦The shopkeeper said coz Imam Zain-ul-Abideen is coming and when he sees themā¦he is reminded of his fatherās head on the spearā¦of his little brothers Asgharās head on the spearā¦reminded of so much
He would literally faint with grief.
HE was THE MAN who literally survived karbala AND SAW with his own eyes every litttle detail that happened to everyone in Karbalaā¦and I believe he lived to tell what happened there.
As for if he did matam I am not sure but was he FILLED WITH GRIEF ā¦I think soā¦and why wouldnāt heā¦us nai he tou sara zulm-e-setum dekha sub kuch bardash kiya
yeah they have majlises... on that day... and mourn... but talkin about shadaat of rasool...and bidat....celebrating eid -e- milad un nabi...for yoear.....is it a bidat or is it an act done by Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. Did he celebrate it every year like that while he was alive????... and one more question...if someone u luv real much..and he dies on the same day... would you celebrate his birthday or mourn for the loss....????
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by the way i am one of those ppl who consider eidmilad un nabi as bidat..................
There was a dog in the cave of Ashaab -e- kaif and he is still remembered in Quran for his deed and zuljana from what i heard on tv this muharram after the shadat of Imam Hussain A.S. after he fall from the horse he started doing circles around his body to protect them...thats how wafadar he was.......
Hazrat Ayoub cried so much for his son that his eyes turned white even though he was a very sabir insaan...quran qoutes that about him but never said mourning was something wrong........
One comapnion of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. broke his teeth when he heard Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. teeth broke in the battle of Ohad.... I dont find a hadith where Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. said his activity was bad......
Whats wrong in mourning...
talking about the act of Mr. Israr Ahmed now tell me dude... Its the day when Imam Hussain sacrificed his family in the way of Allah, its the day when the ladies of the house of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. were arested by Yazeed army and they were taken from the markets of koofa and shaam beh rida...such a tragedic incident in the life of Islam and the best this so called scholar of Islam. can do it held a wedding rather then having sort of memorial service to pay the respect to the tragedic loss, just for his love for Islam and Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. You have a problem with mourning don't mourn but atleast have some sort of memorial service to pay respect in the love of Islam and Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H.
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As i said there is nothing wrong in mourning, infact it was a great tragedy and i myself can never forget it. But one should always try to follow sunnah. I do understand that shias have sincere grief at heart but yara i donot think that the way is rational. Remember when a son of Hazrat Muhammed (PBUH) died , it was very hard for ummah and Hazrat Muhammed and tears did come to every one's eye but do you see any one through the history mourning over the day? Did Hazrat Muhammed (PBUH) selected the day for mourning?
I have read the one incident you refered to but don't you agree the best way is of Hazrat Muhammed (PBUH). And he disliked women shouting or yelling with grief. Now i don't know about all of shias because there are sects in shiaism but a few i have relationships with have matem (matum). Don't you think that isn't the preferred way of mourning?
What i donot understand is shia's have a passion for Ahle bait. Then why not try to copy the great family in every aspect. And as far as i know even after the tragedy of kerbala this way of mourning wasn't introduced ,it came later. We all are muslims bro lets try to stick to way of life left by Hazrat Muhammed (PBUH) and followed by his blessed house hold.
As for Israr Ahmed do you remember that Hazrat Ali was the one in command in some war and preparations weren't complete so some one said that we will not attack tomorrow because the day isn't good and he said no we will attack tomorrow because no day is bad.
As for mourning, if you want to go islamic way, the best way is to read Quran and say salat for those who died on the day (May Allah reward them in hereafter). You must agree that by having a majliss or taking zuljina on road you are not gaining Allah's pleasure nor of those who died.
Hope didn't offend you.
As i said there is nothing wrong in mourning, infact it was a great tragedy and i myself can never forget it. But one should always try to follow sunnah. I do understand that shias have sincere grief at heart but yara i donot think that the way is rational. Remember when a son of Hazrat Muhammed (PBUH) died , it was very hard for ummah and Hazrat Muhammed and tears did come to every one's eye but do you see any one through the history mourning over the day? Did Hazrat Muhammed (PBUH) selected the day for mourning?
I have read the one incident you refered to but don't you agree the best way is of Hazrat Muhammed (PBUH). And he disliked women shouting or yelling with grief. Now i don't know about all of shias because there are sects in shiaism but a few i have relationships with have matem (matum). Don't you think that isn't the preferred way of mourning?
What i donot understand is shia's have a passion for Ahle bait. Then why not try to copy the great family in every aspect. And as far as i know even after the tragedy of kerbala this way of mourning wasn't introduced ,it came later. We all are muslims bro lets try to stick to way of life left by Hazrat Muhammed (PBUH) and followed by his blessed house hold.
As for Israr Ahmed do you remember that Hazrat Ali was the one in command in some war and preparations weren't complete so some one said that we will not attack tomorrow because the day isn't good and he said no we will attack tomorrow because no day is bad.
As for mourning, if you want to go islamic way, the best way is to read Quran and say salat for those who died on the day (May Allah reward them in hereafter). You must agree that by having a majliss or taking zuljina on road you are not gaining Allah's pleasure nor of those who died.
Hope didn't offend you.
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And you over looked what i said earlier.... IF you say Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. didnt cry did he ever stopped people from crying and if you are claiming its biddat Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. probably might not have done...then let me ask you a question if Prophet MOhammad P.B.U.H. don't do some deed and didnt stop from it...can't we do it???? based on your definition if Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. travel in car why are you..., he didnt wear t he shirt and pant dress...is it bidat in your definition????? Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. did he ever celebrated eid -e- milad - un nabi... why do sunni brother celebrate it... or should I say bidat doesnt apply when it comes to sunni believes... as far as matam is concerned didnt I quote you the example of the companion of Prophet Mohamamd P.B.U.H. and broke his teeth... Is there any haidth...where Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. the deed was bad?????? A sheep saved the live of a Prophet and muslims celebrate ever year...... majlises serve as a great source of knowledge man....
So if the wedding took place at the same time, when was the waleema eaten.
Just a thought.
In seriousness, the above is a valid point and the wedding could of been on a different day. Their are other ways of getting a point across and one of them is Fasting.
And you over looked what i said earlier.... IF you say Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. didnt cry did he ever stopped people from crying and if you are claiming its biddat Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. probably might not have done...then let me ask you a question if Prophet MOhammad P.B.U.H. don't do some deed and didnt stop from it...can't we do it???? based on your definition if Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. travel in car why are you..., he didnt wear t he shirt and pant dress...is it bidat in your definition????? Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. did he ever celebrated eid -e- milad - un nabi... why do sunni brother celebrate it... or should I say bidat doesnt apply when it comes to sunni believes... as far as matam is concerned didnt I quote you the example of the companion of Prophet Mohamamd P.B.U.H. and broke his teeth... Is there any haidth...where Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. the deed was bad?????? A sheep saved the live of a Prophet and muslims celebrate ever year...... majlises serve as a great source of knowledge man....
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I didn't overlook it i said that preferred way is not to do matem, Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) did stop from matem. As for your complains for eid e milad ul nabi, i think they are valid and people just make it a day opf celeberation which IMO is wrong.I didn't mention about sunnis because we weren't talking about them if you start another thread where the question is raised i would definitely post my point of view on that.There is no reason for you to feel that i am attacking shias i simply am unable to understand this way of mourning. You don't even know i am sunni or not?
As for companion and teeth thing, i said that i have read it but my point was why not follow way of Muhammed (PBUH)? You might think that it is right way i don't. As for Israr Ahmed and wedding well in my humble opinion he wanted to get the point across. It doesn't make him a bad person, where does it say you cannot have a wedding on 10th of Muharrem? What gives anyone else a right to say that he doesn't love Ahle bait as we do? only Allah knows what is in the heart. He might have wanted to break the biddat. And to me love is to follow them and their way of life in every aspect and sunni, shia always forget that.
Blockign the roads because there is a demonstration is not reasonable, grief is not a show of game. If we don't show it in exaggerated way doesn't mean we don't have it. Remember Imam Zain ul Abideen, his grief was greater than any of ours yet he didn't dislike a perosn because they didn't mourn with him on the specific day in certain fashion. All i am trying to say is its not a big issue, lets not get after israr ahmed on the basis of mourning it causes lack of unity among muslims.
^^ ^^ And i don't get it... why is crying a bidat... and if a sahaba break his teeth in luv of Prophet .. Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. never called his act...as wrong rather praised it...why do sunnis have problem with shias mourning... its natural.. and as far some people went to say its unislamic ... even though as far as i know Quran has ayats where Propeht themselves mourn and never said it was something bad.... How many of you know what is youm -e- Huzn.... and Mr so called wise guy...tell me one thing why is it bidat...because to sunnis Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. never mourned....? and if he didnt did he ever stopped people from mourning???? based on your so called defination of bidat... almost every other thing you do is biddat because Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. never did it..... did he used computers... so does it make a bidat for us.... did he celebrate eid e milad un nabi if not doesnt it make a bidat.... did he travel it cars...does it make a biddat for us... ????
tell me after Hazrat Abu Talib and Bibi Khadeefa didn't Prophet Mohmamad had a youm -e- huzn for their loss.....
So what do you want us to do..Mr Wise dude... if a sunni scholar celebrates the day when the family of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. was killed... the ladies of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. were arrested and taken too bazaars of koofa and shaam without ride the so called khilafat -e- Islam came in the hands of people like Yazeed.... who insulted Islam with so many deeds... you want us to celebrate the day with having weddings rather than having some memorial service in luv of Islam...... We have reasons... we love Prophet Mohamamd P.B.U.H . and respecxt the deeds and acts of his family for their services in Islam and if we mourn why do people have problem with that.... they want t o celebrate such a tragic day is the history of Islam by enjoying having marriages go ahead..but if we respect Islam and Prophet Mohamamd P.B.U.H. and his ahleybait why do sunnis have problem with that.... why are they openly having activities like killing shias in Pakistan just because of our respect of Prophet Mohamamd P.B.U.H. and Ahleybait.
Sheraz you can consult your Hadith book and tell me how long did Prophet Muhammad :saw: grieve for his son (Qasim)? While you are at it also, see how long did he grieve for Hazrat Khadeeja and Hazrat Abu Talib(Father of Hazrat Ali:as:)?
Now if you do not choose the example of Prophet Muhammad:saw: than all arguments are moot.
All others please do not try to convince me on harmony, tolerance and others. Basic fact is that there are so many problems in the world that no body wants to stand up for what is right. There is a difference in spreading hate and setting people straight. He set an example by showing to all Muslims that 10th Muharram although a very tragic day in the history of Muslims, cannot be devoid of happiness.
the question is did Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. stopped people from mourningā¦ did he???
even quran talks about Prophet crying but did it say the act was wrongā¦???
Prophet companion broke his teeth in his love for Prophet Mohamamd P.B.U.H. did Prophet Mohamamd P.B.U.H. said it was wrong and forbid the actā¦???
what are you trying to implyā¦ are you saying there is something wrong in mourningā¦and are you saying that Prophet MOhammad P.B.U.H. didnt mournā¦ and if he didntā¦did he stopā¦based on your definition Mrā¦ Prophet Mohamamd I am su re didnt sat on computer to promote hatredness within the sectsā¦ isnt it a biddat for you.. Prophet Mohamamd P.B.U.H. never travelled in carsā¦ isnt it Biddat for you??? Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. never celebrated eid -e- milad un nabi now isnt it biddat followed by sunni fellowsā¦ if something wasnt stopped by Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. who are sunnis to stop from itā¦ wwho are sunni mullah to spread terrorism and call other sects kafir and give fatwah to kill shiasā¦ isint that biddatā¦what teaching of Islam does it reflect manā¦ Isnt it some great biddats followed by sunni palsā¦
If someone comes and kills your family and take your sisters and wives and make fun of them in markets of shaam and koofaā¦would you celebrate it by having marriages on it.. .
And its the family of Prophet Mohamamd P.B.U.H we are talking aboutā¦
Houston kay bachhay you are so naieve, its funny and sad at the same time. You come back with the same lame excuses of he did not stop the mourning.. I asked you guys do you want to follow his example or not? Simple answer is yes or no. Obviously you want to come up with your own rules, just be a man and say that we believe that our way is better than (nauzbillah) Prophet Muhammad:saw:.
While you are sulking over this post try to learn the meaning of biddah. I am not going to explain to you what it means. Apparently what you have been fed at those majlises is wrong.
yoo Kaleem dudeā¦whatzz up with all thing anger and attitudeā¦ First learn to follow the akhlaq of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. before preaching other the sunnah of Propeht MOhammad P.B.U.H. Why the hell are you calling me names for Mrā¦
When did i say whatever i say is fed to me in majlisesā¦ are you out of your mindā¦what i learnt about biddat is from what i have been hearing in the forumā¦ donāt just make baseless assumptions and then start accusing Mr. Like I said earlier I am not a scholar and thats why i try to learn by talking to different peopleā¦ but if the definition of biddat is to private and secret for you ā¦ keep it to yourselfā¦ It would be a waste of time learning things from a person who donāt make any sense to start with or donāt even have manners to talkā¦ or make baseless assumptions out of no wehreā¦ I better with out itā¦
I am sorry to say.. but gotta tell u manā¦ u dont make any senseā¦ All i asked was a simple question..whats wrong in mourningā¦quran has ayats where Prophets mourned and quran doesnt say the activity was badā¦ whats wrong with shias mourningā¦did Prophet ever stopped peopel from mourning??? why celebrate eid e milad un nahi thenā¦ did Propeht celebrated itā¦ won;t that fit your secret definition of biddat??? But Oh you had to come up with some baseless philosphy that makes no senseā¦
Go and learn to make sense and learn manner to talk before preaching othersā¦
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*Originally posted by Kaleem: *
Apparently what you have been fed at those majlises is wrong.
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Kaleem I never said I have been taught the definition of biddat in majlises..... All i learnt was talking to you people in gupshup and raised some questions to get a better understanding..... can questions be wrong..??? and who are you to judge what I have been taught in majlises...have you ever gone wtih me...
Majlis is a source of knowledge...
A place where we learn about tragedy of karbela
A place where we learn about Islamic Prinicples...
An opportunity for us to meet several maulanas and discuss with them maslo masayl....
Who are you to say what i learn in majlises are wrong.... are you gonna deny the tragedy of Kerbala now.... or the basic principles of Islam maulana preaches..... Are you more knowledgeable then them.
I got few words of advice for you........ Think Before You Ink
no grudges sisā¦just proving whos act is according to islamā¦we believe and according to shiaz books it is also proven that maatam etc is bidat ā¦some wher i have even heard that dr ali shariati also condemned the maaatm etcā¦so why insist on itā¦we r not in this world to do maatamā¦
why dont shiaz who r very much trying to copy imam according to thier belive name thier children like imam hassan and hussan()didā¦
Alright Mr. Bao Bihari wants to preach things he have been hearingā¦ taking it for grantedā¦ As he has done in the pastā¦ wants people to believe blindly whateva he has to which apprently have been proven wrong beforeā¦
Mr. Lets clear the definition of bidat firstā¦ If there is something Prophet Mohammad didnot do but didnt not condemned is it bidatā¦ ??? like earlier you said if someone abuses Propeht Mohammad P.B.U.H. he should be killed now wasnt tat a bidatā¦ or nauzubillah thats a practice Prophet MOhammad P.B.U.H. even though Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. never even ordered to kill a lady that used to throw stones at him..Is that all you are good for spreading some anti propogandaā¦and never be able to defend your own argumentsā¦ and as far as matam in concerned i asked several timesā¦ this companion of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. broke his teeth when he heard that Prophet MOhammad P.B.U.H. teeth brokeā¦ did Propeht Mohammad P.B.U.H. ever condemned or said his act was wrongā¦ but no Bao Bihari if he doesnt have anything to justify he would say watever he heard or has to say and want to ppl to trust him blindlyā¦
Talking about mourning on Ashoor Mr. Ar Mughal and Avg American Girl let me ask you a questionā¦ I pray it never happend but I what if someone kills your whole family and take the ladies of your family as prisoners and make fun of them in the markets without them having ridaā¦ would you ever choose of all the dayzz that day for your sons marriageā¦?
and its the family of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. we are talking aboutā¦ members who sacirficed their lives in the way of Allah, whats wrong if we do some sorta memorial service for the tragic day in the history of Islamā¦ In pakistan we have a defence day in memory of the people lost in there service from Pakistan, here in States we have memorial services on Sept 11 for the innocent lives lost due to some terrorist attach ā¦ whats wrong if shias mourn for such a tragic day in the history of Islam
I dont have references to prove this so correct me if I am not right but as far as I have head...when Hazrat Abu Talib and Bibi Khadeeja died.. Propeht Mohammad P.B.U.H. made a youm-e-Huzn... for one year in their memory... talking about your other concerns..tell me did Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. stopped people from mourning... Did he ever said the his sahabha who broke his teeth in the love of Prophet Mohammad...did do something wrong...or comitted a big sin?? Did he?
Did Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. ever stopped people from mourning......
Ashura is a big day also because its a very tragic day of Islam ... The ladies who taught rida to the world..who serves as an examples for us..their rida was taken away and they were taken in bazaars... The thing that hurt Imam Zain ul Abideen more wasnt the fact that his father was killed or brothers and family got killed.. Infact it was the scene of markets and koofa that hurted him the most... The grand daughters of no other than the family of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. were taken in koofa, were tortured, were taken as prisoners........ ever thought of that......? Do you know how tragic this day is..........
Talking about tragedy of Kerbala... Let me ask a question to you fellow sunnis... If any one who became khaleefa was regarded as Ameer ul Momineen...even a person like Mahwiya who fought against Maula Ali ...
Maula Ali who was there in every battle with Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. every time he was needed no matter if its Khyber or Khandaq a person for whom Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. said
"For whoever I am his Leader (mawla), 'Ali is his Leader (mawla)."
A person who came against such a great companion of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. is regarded as Ameer ul Momineen then why dont you regard Yazeed.... why not carry the love and respect for enemies of the family of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. all the way?
)didā¦