Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Your are pathetically late with lousy Shukriyas. I think people of Pakistan had made their gratitude known way before you went green with jealousy and insecurities.
Now you just seem like a piss taker.
But Shukriya Gen Raheel. God bless you.
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
well, PTIans have now become new custodians of pak and pak army and anyone who points out any shortcoming in our army will become a traitor and a ghaddar but one other thing which is mind boggling is that whenever you expose imran’s own endless army bashing, PTIans instead of getting embarrassed will start screaming “see told ya, immi is not an army guy, shame on you for calling him an army guy during dharna”
except it was imran khan himself who enhanced that impression/rumors during dharana days shamelessly by pointing towards “umpire kee ungliee” for weeks…by telling his supporters that hang on, umpire ka faisla anay wala hai. so regardless of all the rumors that ISI cheif is behind Imran’s dharna, it was imran who was dying to be seen as an army man as well…
but when it was ok for imran to bash army, he even declared indian army more civilized than pak army … did you see the video of imran that i posted above? it is mind boggling. 
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
^ Are you going to shamelessly lie and say that Imran being backed by establishment narrative did not flourish after Lahore October Jalsa? This debate did not marr the elections 2013? Their opponents did not bet that "establishment" will make them win Punjab? PMLN and Nawaz Sharif did not say they can smell Establishment conspiring against them via PTI? Imran wasn't shouting Umpire back then, or was he? Do you really want me to prop up all those long ass threads from circa 2013 where everyone called PTI the establishment's party to expose your claim?
If you likes of you get any pleasure out of taking the piss out of Army Chief, then go ahead and do it. Honestly. It is people like who then moan and groan how country has no heroes and no role models, and they have effed up DNA because they support non Army men like Imran and Bhutto.
PTians are the same people who did not like Musharraf and Kiyani for their obvious shortcomings. But taking the piss out of Army while they are doing all the right thing does make your look a pissy and jealous backstabber, and I hope PTI supporters do not fall for this!
Truth to to be told, Army really doesn't need PTIians to defend them. The institution has always enjoyed a very special respect and love amongst public even during the dark days, yeah when most PTIans weren't even born. But PTIians or no PTIians, Army will always retain and maintain its honour, and special place in people's hearts. ISPR is certainly doing something right to get under their haters' skin.
But if one really wants to attack Army just to get back at PTI or troll PTians....then you are just a sad, sore and slimy loser.
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
....And also before 2014, every time Imran went to Karachi, MQM did not cry that Establishment is trying to cancel them in Karachi through PTI?
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Just to further explain how and why Army does not need any political party's support anymore.
Corps Commander has effectively transformed into the only cohesive, professional and action focused think tank in Pakistan. ISPR's position has been upgraded within the Corps Commanders, whether it will turn into a full corps, no one knows.
There has been a gigantic shift in military's approach. Military's functional strategies don't change overnight, they work according to long term and short term plans. Kiyani pulled Military out of politics, and Gen Raheel is following that agenda, and his successor will do that same. With massively politically aware young population and free media where information and smear campaign spread like wildfire, Army cannot afford anarchist hate towards the institution, plus they are too stretched out and stressed out in battlefields to take charge of running civilian government. The only way to actually get rid of parties like PMLN and PPP is just by giving them full terms. Zardari's full term did to PPP that no dictator's ouster of party could do.
I appreciate the efforts of all those civilians who genuinely want to erase the mistrust, lack of co-operation and them vs us divide between Army and civilian institutions and be on the same page for sake of today's changed Pakistan. But some people who think that if they are being too smart and "intellectual" by setting up politicians and Army against each other, and propagating a hostile competition, they are in for a rude shock.
This present day military is in no mood to be baited. If it a war of narratives, then let's just see whose actions speak louder than other party's propaganda.
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
You’re obviously a good guy but my word that is an unbelievably clueless post. Giving solid competition to TheRealDeal’s lying and Sachaydino there my friend.
“Properly trained for 2 weeks”, did that training include mending fences with Russia to an extent no one could have imagined? Or entering this project with China which should bring us a shedload of money and increase our credibility on a global level? Or cleaning up Karachi? Or pretty much getting rid of TTP?
If the military wants to bring down the current government they could literally have it done within the next ten minutes. LITERALLY. No “training” of whether to do it or not required, no permission required. He went on a long tour to the US because they need us as much as we need them and they know the army is the ONLY institution worth talking to in Pakistan. Should they speak about Afghanistan to Nawaz Sharif, who I’m sure would promptly bring out his little notepad.
All this army bashing - especially against the current regime - is truly laughable and shows a complete lack of self-thought and the ability to form your opinion, instead resorting to spouting the bull**** rhetoric that has been fed to you over the past half decade by the media. Put your party allegiances to one side, open your eyes and then tell us whether you can honestly not see that for the first time in decades we have some genuinely good guys leading the military?
If you can’t, then well wake up. Pakistan comes first - if someone has done something good, praise them, if they haven’t and are sucking the country dry - call them out on it.
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
You're obviously a good guy but my word that is an unbelievably clueless post. Giving solid competition to TheRealDeal's lying and Sachaydino there my friend.
"Properly trained for 2 weeks", did that training include mending fences with Russia to an extent no one could have imagined? Or entering this project with China which should bring us a shedload of money and increase our credibility on a global level? Or cleaning up Karachi? Or pretty much getting rid of TTP?
If the military wants to bring down the current government they could literally have it done within the next ten minutes. LITERALLY. No "training" of whether to do it or not required, no permission required. He went on a long tour to the US because they need us as much as we need them and they know the army is the ONLY institution worth talking to in Pakistan. Should they speak about Afghanistan to Nawaz Sharif, who I'm sure would promptly bring out his little notepad.
All this army bashing - especially against the current regime - is truly laughable and shows a complete lack of self-thought and the ability to form your opinion, instead resorting to spouting the bull**** rhetoric that has been fed to you over the past half decade by the media. Put your party allegiances to one side, open your eyes and then tell us whether you can honestly not see that for the first time in decades we have some genuinely good guys leading the military?
If you can't, then well wake up. Pakistan comes first - if someone has done something good, praise them, if they haven't and are sucking the country dry - call them out on it.
Paa ji, I really dont hv time to go in detail right now so some other time, but for now let me say this. When exactly you think I bashed army without reasoning? If you do a quick search on my posts u can find many where I've praised Raheel Shareef for many things. And same goes with army.
But I strongly believe in institutions. And I'm very much against making someone a god. So I'll keep praising Army for its good role and keep criticizing them for their bad. And if you think they have NEVER done anything bad then I'll openly say you are wrong cuz actually they have.
So yea I would never consider Army as a holy cow. And I would never treat RS as a super-hero.
Should we commend him for his role as Army chief. Absolutely YES!! He's doing a phenomenal job.
Should we appreciate his or any other person's role in meddling civilian govt's issues. Absolutely NO! Any single time any army general will do it, for any country, i'll oppose it. Thats all.
So there we are. There I've just defined the line I follow. Cheers!
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
lol… This country will never learn.
That being said, I dont think the Army can sustain this popularity in the long run. If the democratic process continues, economy improves, security situation continues to improve, then what relevance will Raheel Sharif or the Army as a whole have? The Army is a force so long as there is a conflict to give it teeth. And how many extensions can Raheel Sharif have anyway?
Perhaps im wrong, but considering the fact that party politics, not having been allowed to evolve in the country, means this balancing act between politicians and Army men is expected. But the system is evolving with each passing year. Each year that passes without a coup, the democratic setup strengthens the institutions that define it, making the Army less and less powerful by default.
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Paa ji, ? If you do a quick search on my posts u can find many where I've praised Raheel Shareef for many things. And same goes with army.
But I strongly believe in institutions. And I'm very much against making someone a god. So I'll keep praising Army for its good role and keep criticizing them for their bad. And if you think they have NEVER done anything bad then I'll openly say you are wrong cuz actually they have.
So yea I would never consider Army as a holy cow. And I would never treat RS as a super-hero.
This actually is true for many posters who are considered as army bashes. . But again mujh ke aagee been Kon bajaee. .... u know wat I mean..
On a funny note I read some where...
Jin Larkion ki shadi nahi ho rahi woh rozanah zafraan se haath pur 3 time shukria Raheel Shareef likhain. .. juldi hi shehzadee jaisa rishta ayee ga...
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
You're obviously a good guy but my word that is an unbelievably clueless post. Giving solid competition to TheRealDeal's lying and Sachaydino there my friend.
"Properly trained for 2 weeks", did that training include mending fences with Russia to an extent no one could have imagined? Or entering this project with China which should bring us a shedload of money and increase our credibility on a global level? Or cleaning up Karachi? Or pretty much getting rid of TTP?
If the military wants to bring down the current government they could literally have it done within the next ten minutes. LITERALLY. No "training" of whether to do it or not required, no permission required. He went on a long tour to the US because they need us as much as we need them and they know the army is the ONLY institution worth talking to in Pakistan. Should they speak about Afghanistan to Nawaz Sharif, who I'm sure would promptly bring out his little notepad.
All this army bashing - especially against the current regime - is truly laughable and shows a complete lack of self-thought and the ability to form your opinion, instead resorting to spouting the bull**** rhetoric that has been fed to you over the past half decade by the media. Put your party allegiances to one side, open your eyes and then tell us whether you can honestly not see that for the first time in decades we have some genuinely good guys leading the military?
If you can't, then well wake up. Pakistan comes first - if someone has done something good, praise them, if they haven't and are sucking the country dry - call them out on it.
Excellent, excellent post.
You simply need to expose their hypocrisy. This whole meddling into 'civilian affairs' is a smokescreen created by PMLN, MQM and PPP. It is basically a coded opposition for NAP which has entered second phase that concerns with political financing of terror.
They are simply hypocrites. For years they cried that Pakistan has no terror fighting policy. Army comes with NAP which includes punishing political and religious abettors and facilitators of terrorism, everyone says Amen. But when they realise that Army was indeed serious and a lot of criminal politicians can possibly face some accountability under NAP. They start panicking and start coming up with propaganda of "Army meddling in Civilian affairs" or Army calling coup any weekend. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why MQM and PPP supporters have started singing along this tune, when only a year ago they supported NAP.
But I think Army would have been perfectly aware what kind of propaganda and smear campaign they would face the day they would start working on certain sections of NAP.
Those who couldn't stand "man in uniform" being turned into hero are the same who wouldn't tolerate Imran's popularity even years before dharna. So God knows who they want to see popular in Pakistan? Nicki Minaj? Amir Liaqat? You stopped producing good sporting heroes long time ago.
They can't just say that oh I like RS, but I can't see him becoming so popular. I believe in 'institutions' yada yada yada. You cannot tolerate priase for military (which is an institution) simple as that. This is just serious chip in the shoulder mentality. It is not just RS, General Nasser Janjua, General Naveed Mukhtar, DG Rangers Bilal, General Asim Bajwa are all way more respected and popular than your ministers like Parvez Rasheed, rigging champions Saad Rafiq, Kh Asif and Ayaz Sadiq.
Pakistanis are not stupid. They know how to appreciate performances and effective leadership. Actions speak louder than fuddy duddy rhetoric of institutions.
I think at the end of the way one will have to take Iconoclast's post in account, where he said you get out of GS, you won't a single Pakistani who does not appreciate Gen Raheel and military's performance. The General has one year left, he may or may not get extension. But those who have massive chip on the shoulder against military will find a way to make him so controversial, the campaign gets even more intense when their corrupt politucal leaders face even a grain of pressure of accountability. They simply pull the alarm of military interfering in civilian affairs, and see how their lackeys do the dirty work.
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
lol... This country will never learn.
That being said, I dont think the Army can sustain this popularity in the long run. If the democratic process continues, economy improves, security situation continues to improve, then what relevance will Raheel Sharif or the Army as a whole have? The Army is a force so long as there is a conflict to give it teeth. And how many extensions can Raheel Sharif have anyway?
Perhaps im wrong, but considering the fact that party politics, not having been allowed to evolve in the country, means this balancing act between politicians and Army men is expected. But the system is evolving with each passing year. Each year that passes without a coup, the democratic setup strengthens the institutions that define it, making the Army less and less powerful by default.
The way Army has committed itself to assuring security for CEPC, putting Baluchistan on track, re-building FATA, and cleaning Karachi. I think they generally don't want to be involved in anymore internal conflicts in future and just let the country run its course. The whole situation feels like manifestation of military introduced term of taking things to 'logical conclusion'. It is never easy and desirable for Armies to remain so engaged in conflicts within borders. Besides, they have realised running government is just never easy. Pakistan Army is not like some Arab Armies, military dictators in Pakistan have usually always preferred to pass down power to civilian leadership whenever they become popular on public demand (except Zia who died). There has never been this desire to rule Pakistan for 20 - 40 straight years. Even Musharraf got sick of it towards the end of his 7 year rule.
Raheel Sharif can only have one extension. Even if he goes, there will be equally capable successor who will have clear precedent and huge expectations to follow.
I don't necessarily agree with the idea of having 'irrelevant' or less powerful Army (unless meant in political sense). The nature of Pakistan geography, the new wave of proxy warfare in the region, and the bloodbath that is Middle East. I think Pakistan would always require a strong, professional and fully supported Army as a security, and that could only be ensured if Army's resources are not being wasted policing Karachi or running FATA. The civilians will eventually have to take responsibility if they don't want Army involved in politics. At present, KPK is not being run by FC, the police there is effectively doing the job that Rangers in Karachi are doing.
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
By the way it is also time to "Thank you Amreeeeeeka" for phoning Russians to give guard of honour to Raheel Sharif, and Chinese for trusting his word for providing secuirty to CPEC. Look how Pentagon made things so easy for us.
Oh dear Pentagon, shall we not send a truck full of patwaris so you can also train them on 'democracy'?
But Thank you Amreeeeeka.
For some reason hearing Thank you Amreeeka sounds more pleasing and soothing to the ears than hearing Thank You Raheel Sharif.
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Double post.
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Koi Shuk?
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Put your party allegiances to one side, open your eyes and then tell us whether you can honestly not see that for the first time in decades we have some genuinely good guys leading the military?
If you can't, then well wake up. Pakistan comes first - if someone has done something good, praise them, if they haven't and are sucking the country dry - call them out on it.
exactly bro....very well said. yes pakistan comes first and yes we shd put our part allegiances to one side..so what do you think about imran khan who has been bashing army for so long to the extent he called india army more civilized than our army ( i posted the link)....
point being that every politician has been involved in army bashing including khan jee
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
why are you so happy…are you that shezada? 
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Army is the reason why Pakistan is a huge mess.The generals were responsible for breaking up the country, creating jiahdi monster that we are dealing with today through social re-engineering the entire society. Today they are being praised for trying to clean up the mess they created. It's kind of like praising arsonist for trying to put out fire that he started.
Also, people who are trying to elevated RS to status of demigod should to know this that is HIS JOB and he gets paid for it.
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Even Bill Gates says “Shukriya Raheel Sharif” 
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Army is the reason why Pakistan is a huge mess.The generals were responsible for breaking up the country, creating jiahdi monster that we are dealing with today through social re-engineering the entire society. Today they are being praised for trying to clean up the mess they created. It's kind of like praising arsonist for trying to put out fire that he started.
Also, people who are trying to elevated RS to status of demigod should to know this that is HIS JOB and he gets paid for it.
aap ko bhot bhot mubarak ho shamraz jee...you and imran khan are finally on the exact same page.... Imran khan sahib kay bee bilkul yahiee ideas hain army kay baray may...laikan satam zariffie yae hai kay some PTIans have become new custodian of pakistan army yelling at every party....