Does God Exist?

[Seminole]

Re: Does God Exist?

@picoico

^ And then they say we're intolerant whenever we say peep about other faiths....

Don't throw words around like that. It's intellectually dishonest. Someone described the immeasurable vastness of the universe and how we are but a tiny grand of sand. Logic dicates that a book that addresses only this grain of sand - in the context of a certain place, time and culture of ancient history - is myopic.

[Seminole]

Re: Does God Exist?

Now go back to your books of astronomy and see with your own eyes that astronomers have discovered and proved that universe is constantly expanding. Who could tell you this 1400 years ago when even the telescope was not invented . Only the creator who has created a universe and expanding it constantly can tell you this. Now say Ashad o anna la ila ha ill lal lah wa Mohammad ur rasool Allah.

Heaven is the universe?

[Seminole]

Re: Does God Exist?

I think that's a totally immoral statement. Oops...

Anyhoo...religious scriptures are not presented as formal arguments, they're declarative. Just like any OTHER moral system...your attempt at side stepping the original point aside...

Your point is that you feel you are following a book/message/system/culture that has undeniable truths. I disagree that they are all "undeniable truths".

[picoico]

Re: Does God Exist?

Don't throw words around like that. It's intellectually dishonest. Someone described the immeasurable vastness of the universe and how we are but a tiny grand of sand. Logic dicates that a book that addresses only this grain of sand - in the context of a certain place, time and culture of ancient history - is myopic.

Who's being intellectually dishonest? Words have connotations.

The very suggestion that eastern philosophies are introverted - mind you my words may have been more blunt - got your undies in a knot...and now this?

Right...

[picoico]

Re: Does God Exist?

Your point is that you feel you are following a book/message/system/culture that has undeniable truths. I disagree that they are all "undeniable truths".

No...point being that all moral systems, regardless of how "logical" they claim to be, make presumptions.

[USResident]

Re: Does God Exist?

^ I think you just made the point that it is irrational to believe that God is so obsessed with our insignificant existance that he would have sent a myopic message like the Quran as his best and last message.

Myopic enough to appeal to our limited perception. Direct enough to cut through the things we can never comprehend. The message is the best for us not for Allah.

[Seminole]

Re: Does God Exist?

Myopic enough to appeal to our limited perception. Direct enough to cut through the things we can never comprehend. The message is the best for us not for Allah.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

[Light_Bearer]

Re: Does God Exist?

@indopak

since the word “Allah” means God why do Muslims say Allah, why don’t you guys just say God?

I say God all the time. Its not forbidden.

@Code_Red

No scriptures , less religion more belief and philosphy.

suits here

Also a lot less traffic in this section. Less people see it the better. lol

@Mirch

What is the proof that God exists ?

None.

@Mirch

Note: “Proving” God exists is really not our purpose.

Smart because it cannot be done.

@Mirch

We are only interested in providing clear statements based on facts and logic and then allow the individual decide for themselves who they would like to believe. There have always been people who believed in the existence of God and there have always been those who have denied in His existence. We must realize there are those who will never believe no matter how much proof or evidence we produce.

This is supposition on your part, you go ahead and give the proof, let other decide if they want to believe or not.

@Mirch

The reason is some people don’t want to believe in a Creator or Sustainer. They would not like to consider one day they will have to answer for their actions and for their refusal to acknowledge their Benefactor to whom they owe their very existence.

This is second assupmtion that we do have to answer for anything at all.

@Mirch

We come to know it is not so much a matter of us trying to convey our beliefs as it is for them to set aside preconceived prejudices against proper belief.

Read your quote which I underlined above and see if that fits the bill of “preconcieved prejudice”.

@Mirch

Meaning: this is really a matter of guidance from Above.

Good then I don’t have to answer for anything at all.

@Mirch

If they refuse even with evident proofs in front of them, this is not between us and them; it is between them and their Creator.

Again the same thing, where is the proof given in this whole post.

@Mirch

Again, it is not our job to “prove” anything to anyone. We only need to present the facts in truth and allow the listener to make up their own mind.

Agree, this is all required from your side.

@Mirch

We just begin with simple logic. When something is right in front of our eyes it is difficult to deny it, right? Asking rhetorical questions can be very helpful in presenting our case. Begin by asking the question; “Can you prove you exist?” Yes, of course you can. You merely use your senses to determine what you can see, hear, feel, smell, taste and you have emotions as well. All of this is a part of your existence. But this is not how we perceive God in Islam. We can look to the things He has created and the way He cares for things and sustains us, to know there is no doubt of His existence.

Back to square one. THIS IS YOUR FAITH NOT PROOF.

@Mirch

One approach is to suggest simple yet convincing experiments anyone could comprehend. For instance, say to someone, “Consider this the next time you are looking up at the moon or the stars on a clear night; could you drop a drinking glass on the sidewalk and expect it would hit the ground and on impact it would not shatter, but it would divide up into little small drinking glasses, with iced tea in them? Of course not.”

Another example is have them consider what might happen if a tornado came through a junkyard and tore through the old cars; would it leave behind a nice new Mercedes with the engine running and no parts left around? Naturally not.

Or ask someone to consider what it would be like if someone told us about a fast food restaurant operating itself without any people there? The food just cooks itself, files from the kitchen to the table and then when we are done, the dishes jump back the kitchen to wash themselves. This is too crazy for anyone to even think about.

After reflecting on all of the above, how could we look to the universe above us through a telescope or observe the molecules in a microscope and then think all of this came about as a result of a “big bang” or some “accident?”

Already answered similar stories earlier in the thread. Read the thread from the begining.

@goodBabu

AlhamdoLillah Allah yeh, Ap ko Nazar nahee ata tu “Fiqer” ka ilaj karao…
Pata hey kia, thora Ilam kafii khternaak hota hey…

Acha! theek hai.

@Mirch

He does care about us and cares about our well being . He has told us the following scientific fact in Quran. Only mention of this fact should be enough for a person of open mind to accept Islam as a true religion and Quran a book from Allah:

Wa**al**ssamaa banaynahabi-aydin wa-inna lamoosiAAoon**a** WALSaMAAa BaNYNAHaA BeAYDe WANA LaMoWSAoWN	والسماء](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=والسماء) بنيناها](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=بنيناها) بايد](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=بايد) وانا](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=وانا) لموسعون](http://textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=لموسعون)
	We have built the heaven and We are expanding it continuously. 51:47

Now go back to your books of astronomy and see with your own eyes that astronomers have discovered and proved that universe is constantly expanding. Who could tell you this 1400 years ago when even the telescope was not invented . Only the creator who has created a universe and expanding it constantly can tell you this. Now say Ashad o anna la ila ha ill lal lah wa Mohammad ur rasool Allah.

Strange you say scientifc fact and then mention heaven. Ouch.

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Does God Exist?

^ Salam LB, so back to form:)

[USResident]

Re: Does God Exist?

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Any other choice you have. :)

[USResident]

Re: Does God Exist?

Hey LB! Pai bachai ya nahin ....

[StirCrasy]

Re: Does God Exist?

Also a lot less traffic in this section. Less people see it the better. lol

Why hide?

None.

Actually there's lot of proof that God exists. the particular definition you guys use is what is not provable

Smart because it cannot be done.

yup, for the same reason as above

[Robert]

Re: Does God Exist?

Actually there's lot of proof that God exists.

if proof means verifiable data, then no, there is no proof either way.

[StirCrasy]

Re: Does God Exist?

if proof means verifiable data, then no, there is no proof either way.

really?

I actually know what you mean but I think we should all be a little less sure about how 'provable' science is (and yes, a little less certain about God's diktat too).

How many time do we accept something because it is based on surveys? If you apply the same type of surveys, apply the same statistical measures, Yes Gods will wallop the no Gods 8.5 to 1.5. And yeah, surveys are considered verifiable.

[Robert]

Re: Does God Exist?

really?

I actually know what you mean but I think we should all be a little less sure about how 'provable' science is (and yes, a little less certain about God's diktat too).

How many time do we accept something because it is based on surveys? If you apply the same type of surveys, apply the same statistical measures, Yes Gods will wallop the no Gods 8.5 to 1.5. And yeah, surveys are considered verifiable.

surveys are not scientific (they many times have this line as disclaimer). By verifiable I mean, like gravity or value of G (rate of change of velocity in free fall). Presence of God (or absense for that matter) is not as obvious as (1+1=2). I hope you get my point.

When I say its a proven scientific fact that earth revolves around sun, you admit it. When I say its not a proven scientific fact that God exists, you would reject science as a tool of choice for verification.

[kali_billi]

Re: Does God Exist?

well i believe in god and i have to admit that there was a point in my life when i stopped believing in him.
i had same questions who is god where is he if theres a god then where is he?

y doesnt he answer me when i call upon him?

my head was filled with these thoughts and i used to think for hours about it.

then suddenly one day i found my answers and i believe in god more than i ever did.

my question was y dont we see god?
the answer i found was he want us to believe in him without letting us see him cuz he wanna see who believes in him.

he cud have shown himself but he didnt instead he left so many hints and clues for us all around us

if u see closely u can see those clues

[kali_billi]

Re: Does God Exist?

ok as far as science is concerned i think u cant find god through numbers or equations there r sum things that r beyond the human understandings.

all of my friends here who say they dont believe in god cuz they cant prove it scientifically .............

then i have a question for u

do u believe in magic?

if u dont then i will recomend u to try meeting sum1 who does that and u will see that it exists but still its not scientifically proven so how does it exists?

just like that there r sumthings we cant prove with science!!

[Light_Bearer]

Re: Does God Exist?

^ Salam LB, so back to form:)

Walaikum Asalam :) Aagaya net pay after long absense. My number is changed will give you a call soon.

Hey LB! Pai bachai ya nahin ....

Abay after 3 days you will not find anything. BTW aaloo maithee khani hai to batao. thats what we have on the menu today.

Why hide?

I was being sarcastic towards codey.

ok as far as science is concerned i think u cant find god through numbers or equations there r sum things that r beyond the human understandings.

all of my friends here who say they dont believe in god cuz they cant prove it scientifically .............

then i have a question for u

do u believe in magic?

if u dont then i will recomend u to try meeting sum1 who does that and u will see that it exists but still its not scientifically proven so how does it exists?

just like that there r sumthings we cant prove with science!!

honh magic? what is magic? Creteria please.:)

[Rocking_vibes]

Re: Does God Exist?

I reckon that if we continue this thread for few more days....God will eventually come down and post in this thread....

[indopak]

Re: Does God Exist?

^aaahhh haaa so you do believe in the existence of God!