Does God Exist?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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As-Salamu 'Alaykum everyone

so this thread will be used to show our atheists friends that God does exist. Official reason for creating this thread is that one of the members “ummm” would like to debate with me on this topic rationally and logically. Other atheists are welcome as well. The debate could be limited or on going.

Please let us follow the following set of questions in sequential order

  1. Is there an eternal and everlasting?
  2. What is this eternal and everlasting called?
  3. If the eternal and everlasting is God, what is the purpose of our life?
  4. What is His true Message?

We’ll start the debate with the first question and if reach a conclusion (prove your point) then we’ll move on to the next one.

Please do not use circular logic
1- I’m always right
2- If i am wrong go back to 1

So ummm, we can start as soon as you are ready.

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Re: Does God Exist?

YES God exists

To what extent depends upon the individual
In what form or shape depends upon the individual
For what purpose depends upon th eindividual

Just like we know life exists (or when it ceased to exist) by the behavious the ehavior of the host body

We know God exists by the behavior of our atma

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Re: Does God Exist?

I have registered a domain whoismycreator.com. I might get some good ideas about this site from this discussion so keep it going people.

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Re: Does God Exist?

Let me play the devil's advocate
Here is the answers of your above questions

1) Is there an eternal and everlasting? NO
2) What is this eternal and everlasting called? NA (Not applicable - look at answer to the first question)
3) If the eternal and everlasting is God, what is the purpose of our life? NA
4) What is His true Message? NA

I think the debate pretty much over, is'nt it.

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Re: Does God Exist?

Define 'exists'

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Re: Does God Exist?

Bro, expect to see no athiests here, they are busy fantasizing that they could create the universe in the other thread. It'll make a good bedtime story for us all.

I would love for them to describe the word eternal and what comes before eternal and after it.

PKTUN KI PITAAAYI
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Re: Does God Exist?

Let's not be so condescending. If there is a fantasy or bedtime story, it's the religious version of creation, which has no scientific backing.

It has been empirically and scientifically shown that the universe is at least 13 billion years old. How does that fit in with religious doctrine? God waited a looooong time before he decided to create Adam and Eve, eh?

GS "Who would you" Game - PART II
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Re: Does God Exist?

I can speak for Islam, it doesn't give the timeline when it was created so hence it does not conflict with scientific research. Neither does it put a time epoch to when Adam and Eve were created, it just says they were the first of their kind so again if we trace back human existence to thousands of years it still does not contradict with the Quran. So we're happy with the scientific research. On the contrarr the Bible does give certain timelines in Genesis w.r.t. the early generations of humans, so if anything is in conflict with scientific views, it definitely is the Bible not the Quran for all I know.

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Re: Does God Exist?

Huh? The whole creation story from the Quran and Bible are anything but scientific. Regardless, man has existed for just a tiny, infinitesmal, insignificant, almost immeasurable amount of time compared to the universe.

But this business about creating mountains, etc. is illogical. Empirical and scientific data show that mountains are created and wear down by natural phenomena over a period of millions of years. High jagged peaks become low rounded hills. Everest used to be under water. To say God created the mountains and the passes between them makes no sense since they keep changing. Mountains are fairly new compared to the age of the earth.

The earth resembles nothing today compared to when it was created. It used to be covered with a magma ocean. 300 million years ago all of the continental masses were one supercontinent. India migrated from Antarctica to join Asia. The composition, climate, topography, geography, geology, etc are in a constant state of change.

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Re: Does God Exist?

any scientist who argues that there is no god cannot be a honest to himself.

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Re: Does God Exist?

Ok then. Define "what" is God? Someone who doesn't even define what is God and then says God exists is the one who is not honest with himself.

Define god as something unknowable undefinable(contradiction) unthinkable (vedanta style) and then saying he exists is pure intellectual dishonesty. Such a God must be unthinkable and non-existing too...duhhhh...

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Re: Does God Exist?

[quote]

We know God exists by the behavior of our atma

[/quote]

Where is your atma? Your mind, your self are products of chemical reactions. time and again, materialism in the form of Buddhism, jainism has proven your non-materialistic philosophies wrong. The decay of these two religions is a different matter.

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Re: Does God Exist?

[quote]

1) Is there an eternal and everlasting?
2) What is this eternal and everlasting called?
3) If the eternal and everlasting is God, what is the purpose of our life?
4) What is His true Message?

[/quote]

1) first up, time is something that is finite. With the destruction of the Universe, time will be destroyed too. This is not my "belief" but the recent theories in science. I hope my opinions are not taken as the opinion of all atheists. (this will make the word 'everlasting" meaningless)

2)-do-

3) the purpose of our life is unknown. Perharps it is to fid out the purpose itself. But I do feel that the purpose of life9for atlease) is to enjoy life

4)Whose true message?

EDIT: might I add that uncertainty is what makes life beautiful and I love to change my answers to the above questions whenever I want. that said, i don't see where this discussion is leading to.

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Re: Does God Exist?

Absolutely agree the history of man is much newer than that of earth and Quran does not conflict with this. It doesn't even say how old the earth is.

Ah! Here is the difference between what you think I believe and what I actually believe. When it is said that Allah SWT created the world, it is our own assumption to think that he carved a Mount Everest and placed it on the earth, or took a whole body of water and dropped it in a place called Atlantic ocean etc etc. Everything in this world follows some natural phenomenon or laws of nature. Allah SWT created and governs those natural laws and has set them into motion, which create and cause different natural phenomenon. Its not like Allah SWT put together a puzzle. IMO time starts since Allah SWT set these laws in motion and will end when they ultimately cause total collapse. Collapse of the Universe or just our planet or solar system, I don't know. All I know is that us as a human race will reach extinction when Judgement day arrives. Nowhere does the Quran say what the earth resembled and how it has changed. Its a phenomenon associated with the passage of time. There is nothing anti-religious about it or anti-scientific to it either. Allah SWT lets us live in the cause and effect of these laws but yet can interfere with them if it is his will to do so and even we can interfere in limited ways as our knowledge about how they work progresses i.e. Advancement of science.

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Re: Does God Exist?

A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut as always. He started to have a good conversation with the barber who attended him. They talked about so many things on various subjects.

Suddenly, they touched the subject of God. The barber said: "Look man, I don't believe that God exists as you say so." "Why do you say that?"

Asked the client. Well, it's so easy; you just have to go out in the street to realize that God does not exist. Oh, tell me, if God existed, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain. "I can't think of a God who permits all of these things." The client stopped for a moment thinking but he didn't want to respond so as to prevent an argument.

The barber finished his job and the client went out of the shop. Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with a long hair and beard (it seems that it had been a long time since he had his cut and he looked so untidy). Then the client again entered the barbershop and he said to the barber: know what? Barbers do not exist."

"How come they don't exist?" asked the barber. "Well I am here and I am a barber." "No!" - the client exclaimed. "They don't exist because if they did there would be no people with long hair and beard like that man who walks in the street."

"Ah, barbers do exist, what happens is that people do not come to me." "Exactly!"- Affirmed the client. "That's the point. God does exist, what happens is people don't go to Him and do not look for Him that's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

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Re: Does God Exist?

Young man: Who are you? Can you answer my questions?

Scholar: I am one of ALLAH's slaves and inshallah, I will be able to answer your questions.

Young man : Are you sure? A lot of Professors and experts were not able to answer my questions.

Scholar: I will try my best, with the help of ALLAH.

Young Man: I have 3 questions:

  1. Does God exist? If so, show me his shape.
  2. What is Taqdeer (fate)?
  3. If the Shaitan (Devil) was created from fire, why in the end will he be thrown into Jahannum (Hell), that is also created from fire? It certainly will not hurt him at all, since the Shaitan(Devil) and Jahannum (Hell) are both created from fire.Did God not think of it this far?

Suddenly, the Scholar slapped the young man in the face very hard.

Young Man: (Feeling pain) Why are you getting angry at me?

Scholar: I am not angry at you. The slap is my answer to your three questions.

Young Man: How can that be? I really don't understand!

Scholar: How does it feel now that I've slapped you?

Young Man: Of course, I feel pain.

Scholar: So do you believe that pain exists?

Young Man: Yes.

Scholar: Show me the shape of the pain then?

Young Man: I cannot.

Scholar: That is my first answer. All of us feel God's (ALLAH) existence without being able to see His shape. Last night, did you dream that you will be slapped by me?

Young Man: No.

Scholar: Did you ever think that you will get a slap from me, today?

Young Man: No.

Scholar: That is Taqdeer. My hand that I used to slap you, what is it created from?

Young Man: It is created from skin.

Scholar: How about your face, what is it created from?

Young Man: Skin.

Scholar: How do you feel after I slapped you?

Young Man: In pain, ofcourse.

Scholar: Even though the Shaitan(Devil) and Jahannum(Hell) were created from the fire, if Allah wants, inshallah, the hell will become a very painful place for the Shaitan.

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Re: Does God Exist?

Three imams reply to the atheists

"Is there any proof that God exists?" was asked, by an atheist, of Imam Abu Hanifa and he replied, "Forget it! At the moment, I am busy thinking about this ship. People tell me there is a big ship, it contains different goods on board. There is no one to steer it, no one maintaining it. Yet, this ship keeps going back and forth; it even traverses big waves on the oceans; it stops at the locations that it is supposed to stop at; it continues in the direction that it is supposed to head. This ship has no captain and no one planning its trips."

The atheist who posed the question interrupted and exclaimed, "What kind of strange and silly thought is this? How can any intelligent person think that some thing like this can occur?"

Imam Abu Hanifa said, "I feel sorry about your state! You cannot imagine one ship running without some one looking after its affairs. Yet you think that for this whole world, which runs exactly and precisely, there is no one who looks after it, and no one owns it."

Hearing the reply, the atheist was left speechless but he found out more about Haqq (The Truth) and proclaimed Islam.

Imam Shaa'fi replied to the question in the following way, "The leaves of Toot (berries) are all but one. Each leaf tastes exactly the same. Insects, honey bees, cows, goats, and deer live off of it. After eating these the insects produce silk; bees produce honey; deer give musk (a special kind of scent), cows and goats deliver off-springs. Is this not clear evidence that one kind of leaf has so many qualities, and who created these qualities? It is the Khaliq (Creator) who we call Allah (S.W.T.) Who is the Inventor and the Creator."

Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal reflected on the question in the following way. He said, "There is an incredibly strong fort, it has no doors, there is no way to get in. In fact, there is not even a hole in it. From outside it glows like the moon and from inside it shimmers like gold. It is sealed from all sides, matter of fact it is air tight. Suddenly one of its doors breaks down, a living thing with eyes and ears, a beautiful looking animal appears yelling and wandering all over. So is not there a creator who made it possible for life to take place in this secured and closed fort? And is not this Creator better than humans? This Creator has no limit." Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal was referring to an egg which is closed from all sides but Allah (S.W.T.) The Khaliq (Creator) puts life in it and a chick pops out.

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Re: Does God Exist?

Nice post STP.
The one who does not want to believe will come up with his/her own logic and reasoning . Modern day atheist can never be rendered speechless. The best you can do is just deliver the message and leave the rest to Allah and their own free will. Some one who is seeking the truth whole heartedly will find it Inshallah.

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Re: Does God Exist?

Not to be counterpoructive here but can we alter the chemical composition of a dead person and revive him?

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Re: Does God Exist?

^ Likewise, one that wants to believe will come up with his/her own logic and reasoning, like a ship w/o a captain. Instead of being in awe of nature and the way the world runs exactly and precisely by natural law, they need to have a human-like figure, with human like qualities and emotions running the show. Not much different than the way pagans worshpped sun and the moon Gods. This one just happens to be more powerful. And jealous. And needy. And angry. And mean. And vengeful. And narcissistic. And intolerant.