Re: Does God Exist?
God is faith and faith cannot be proven. I come to believe in God in my own way. But just to show that it cannot be proven I will play devil's advocate. :) My replies might come little late as I travel a lot.
As-Salamu 'Alaykum everyone
so this thread will be used to show our atheists friends that God does exist.
Before we start. Lets first investigate what is "God". I am not interested in Ibrahamic God vs Atheism. Because then you will start quoting faith books and it can be different frmo person to person. I am interested in theism vs atheism. So here is the question what is the defination of God in dictionary (as you have quoted to get the defination from the dictionary in one of your posts).
A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut as always. He started to have a good conversation with the barber who attended him. They talked about so many things on various subjects.
Suddenly, they touched the subject of God. The barber said: "Look man, I don't believe that God exists as you say so." "Why do you say that?"
Asked the client. Well, it's so easy; you just have to go out in the street to realize that God does not exist. Oh, tell me, if God existed, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain. "I can't think of a God who permits all of these things." The client stopped for a moment thinking but he didn't want to respond so as to prevent an argument.
The barber finished his job and the client went out of the shop. Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with a long hair and beard (it seems that it had been a long time since he had his cut and he looked so untidy). Then the client again entered the barbershop and he said to the barber: know what? Barbers do not exist."
"How come they don't exist?" asked the barber. "Well I am here and I am a barber." "No!" - the client exclaimed. "They don't exist because if they did there would be no people with long hair and beard like that man who walks in the street."
"Ah, barbers do exist, what happens is that people do not come to me." "Exactly!"- Affirmed the client. "That's the point. God does exist, what happens is people don't go to Him and do not look for Him that's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."
Foolish story for simple minded people. Barbers have physical form and shape unlike God. But keep em coming it keeps me amused.
Young man: Who are you? Can you answer my questions?
Scholar: I am one of ALLAH's slaves and inshallah, I will be able to answer your questions.
Young man : Are you sure? A lot of Professors and experts were not able to answer my questions.
Scholar: I will try my best, with the help of ALLAH.
Young Man: I have 3 questions:
- Does God exist? If so, show me his shape.
- What is Taqdeer (fate)?
- If the Shaitan (Devil) was created from fire, why in the end will he be thrown into Jahannum (Hell), that is also created from fire? It certainly will not hurt him at all, since the Shaitan(Devil) and Jahannum (Hell) are both created from fire.Did God not think of it this far?
Suddenly, the Scholar slapped the young man in the face very hard.
Young Man: (Feeling pain) Why are you getting angry at me?
Scholar: I am not angry at you. The slap is my answer to your three questions.
Young Man: How can that be? I really don't understand!
Scholar: How does it feel now that I've slapped you?
Young Man: Of course, I feel pain.
Scholar: So do you believe that pain exists?
Young Man: Yes.
Scholar: Show me the shape of the pain then?
Young Man: I cannot.
Scholar: That is my first answer. All of us feel God's (ALLAH) existence without being able to see His shape. Last night, did you dream that you will be slapped by me?
Young Man: No.
Scholar: Did you ever think that you will get a slap from me, today?
Young Man: No.
Scholar: That is Taqdeer. My hand that I used to slap you, what is it created from?
Young Man: It is created from skin.
Scholar: How about your face, what is it created from?
Young Man: Skin.
Scholar: How do you feel after I slapped you?
Young Man: In pain, ofcourse.
Scholar: Even though the Shaitan(Devil) and Jahannum(Hell) were created from the fire, if Allah wants, inshallah, the hell will become a very painful place for the Shaitan.
The simplest way to show pain to the scholar is to slap back and say this is pain. Or it can be done scientifically as said by another poster.
Three imams reply to the atheists
"Is there any proof that God exists?" was asked, by an atheist, of Imam Abu Hanifa and he replied, "Forget it! At the moment, I am busy thinking about this ship. People tell me there is a big ship, it contains different goods on board. There is no one to steer it, no one maintaining it. Yet, this ship keeps going back and forth; it even traverses big waves on the oceans; it stops at the locations that it is supposed to stop at; it continues in the direction that it is supposed to head. This ship has no captain and no one planning its trips."
The atheist who posed the question interrupted and exclaimed, "What kind of strange and silly thought is this? How can any intelligent person think that some thing like this can occur?"
Imam Abu Hanifa said, "I feel sorry about your state! You cannot imagine one ship running without some one looking after its affairs. Yet you think that for this whole world, which runs exactly and precisely, there is no one who looks after it, and no one owns it."
Hearing the reply, the atheist was left speechless but he found out more about Haqq (The Truth) and proclaimed Islam.
Emulating your reasoning then there must be someone higher than God to run God, so on and so forth.
Imam Shaa'fi replied to the question in the following way, "The leaves of Toot (berries) are all but one. Each leaf tastes exactly the same. Insects, honey bees, cows, goats, and deer live off of it. After eating these the insects produce silk; bees produce honey; deer give musk (a special kind of scent), cows and goats deliver off-springs. Is this not clear evidence that one kind of leaf has so many qualities, and who created these qualities? It is the Khaliq (Creator) who we call Allah (S.W.T.) Who is the Inventor and the Creator."
Acually I failed to see the relevance of this gem. So please clarify your point.
Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal reflected on the question in the following way. He said, "There is an incredibly strong fort, it has no doors, there is no way to get in. In fact, there is not even a hole in it. From outside it glows like the moon and from inside it shimmers like gold. It is sealed from all sides, matter of fact it is air tight. Suddenly one of its doors breaks down, a living thing with eyes and ears, a beautiful looking animal appears yelling and wandering all over. So is not there a creator who made it possible for life to take place in this secured and closed fort? And is not this Creator better than humans? This Creator has no limit." Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal was referring to an egg which is closed from all sides but Allah (S.W.T.) The Khaliq (Creator) puts life in it and a chick pops out.
Creator has no limits? Really? Can God make another God exactly as himself.
so let me start with the first question, I'll present my arguments and then you can post a rebuttal and we'll move from there on. Bear with me, it could be long.
Is there something eternal and everlasting?
Basic Premise: No can rationally prove that we do not exist and anyone who argues that we do not exist disproves himself by his own argument. Non-existed things do not make arguments! Did we create ourselves? The answer is no because in order to create ourselves we first must be uncreated; in other words we must have been first nothing. However, nothing comes out of nothing. This is the classical argument presented in the Qur'an [52:35-36]. Thus, we exist and we are something. Either we must have always been or came out of something which has always been. The first part does not work because we were born and will die; in other words we are limited and never has always been. Anything that changes is temporal. No one can rationally disapprove it. In conclusion, we exist, and we came out of something which has always existed; in other words the eternal.
And what is your basis from keeping God following the universal principal. Please do not quote from faith books. Who created God so on and so forth.
na tha kuch to khuda tha. na kuch hota to khuda hota doboya mujh ko honay nay, na hota to kia main hota:)
Exactly this is probably our function in this world if there is God. Ghalib sahab has hit the nail on the head. Without me the existance of God means nothing as far as the individual is concerned. Afterall what is the point of being able to do anything and everything if I cannot show it off.:)