Re: Do you beleive in Darwinism or Intelligent Design ?
I believe whatever is written in the holy Quran
Sorry to dissapoint you then. I would spend more time debating each and every fine detail, but the simple fact is that everything I could tell you, has already been debated to death. Everything you could say to me is already been said by contless others. All you have to do is to read it. There is nothing original about what your saying, im only trying to save both of us time by directing you to the relevant material. I agree with all you say on the Koran. What im telling you is that evolution is one of those thing for which more and more evidence is being found, and if you truly honest and faithful, you will recognize this fact, and reconcile it with your religious belief. I have expained it, but you dont want to understand. Your problem is not one of understanding, but one of denial. The facts are staring you in the face, but you deny it because it conflicts with your religous belief. You like the many other religous people have to come to terms with the reality of evolution, instead of trying to undermine it. Facts are facts, whether you like it or not. You refuse to actually do any of the work required in understanding the topic at hand. I have already given you the links, all you have to do is read them. If you dont want to actually do any reading, then why are you even debating at this point? GO AND READ! I gave you the links so you can discuss the points. I said that you hve to understand the Koran within the context of science. If Science is showing evidence of something that is contrary to what you believe, then its not your religion thats wrong, and its not science thats wrong, its your understanding and interpretation that is wrong.
If my issue is of denial in your opinion yours is no different, the difference being my faith in God and yours in theories. However you cannot prove your any theories at their grass roots level without the existence of a creator. Take evolution for example, who created the first single cell organism. This is the point where scientists end up in denial or simply acknowledge the existence of a creator.
If my issue is of denial in your opinion yours is no different, the difference being my faith in God and yours in theories. However you cannot prove your any theories at their grass roots level without the existence of a creator. Take evolution for example, who created the first single cell organism. This is the point where scientists end up in denial or simply acknowledge the existence of a creator.
actually they dont. they are still looking for a way to create life, and have done several experiments. they were able to create amino acids in the laboratory. so maybe one day they will create simple life in a test tube. i dont know what the alibi of the religious people would then be.
actually they dont. they are still looking for a way to create life, and have done several experiments. they were able to create amino acids in the laboratory. so maybe one day they will create simple life in a test tube. i dont know what the alibi of the religious people would then be.
You should have emboldened the first part. Which is what I said, DENIAL whether they acknowledge it or not. And again, they still cannot create something out of nothing. When I said single cell organism i was figurative. We can go to a more molecular level by saying amino acids, but then again its from some existing constituents. I would not argue if some scientist takes biological ingredients and breaks them down to their undivisible constituents and trys to stitch them together again. It will definitely be creditworthy but then again not what God did. Create something out of nothing. So the alibi will be the same as it is today. I never deined the great advancements we have achieved in science. I'm just not self-dellusional to believe that there is no creator. We can take things apart and maybe put them back together but we cannot create them. Its a very fine line which many scientists are unable to cross because they cannot accept the existence of a creator. Their denial is masqueraded in optimistic statements, this is not to undermine however the great things they achieve though. After all Allah SWT made us Ashraf ul maqlooqat. Allah SWT created us superior to other life forms but should not become arrogant of that fact.
Re: Do you beleive in Darwinism or Intelligent Design ?
intense display of religious dogma here
You should have emboldened the first part. Which is what I said, DENIAL whether they acknowledge it or not. And again, they still cannot create something out of nothing. When I said single cell organism i was figurative. We can go to a more molecular level by saying amino acids, but then again its from some existing constituents. I would not argue if some scientist takes biological ingredients and breaks them down to their undivisible constituents and trys to stitch them together again. It will definitely be creditworthy but then again not what God did. Create something out of nothing. So the alibi will be the same as it is today. I never deined the great advancements we have achieved in science. I'm just not self-dellusional to believe that there is no creator. We can take things apart and maybe put them back together but we cannot create them. Its a very fine line which many scientists are unable to cross because they cannot accept the existence of a creator. Their denial is masqueraded in optimistic statements, this is not to undermine however the great things they achieve though. After all Allah SWT made us Ashraf ul maqlooqat. Allah SWT created us superior to other life forms but should not become arrogant of that fact.
so what is the evidence that there was this person who made everything out of nothing. how could you prove it? and for that i wont take something from the scriptures. give me something more satisfying, something that ACTUALLY proves that a super being made this universe out of nothing.
can you do that?
Re: Do you beleive in Darwinism or Intelligent Design ?
^^ no they cannot. dogma at its best!
the arguments used by 'intelligent design' believers are not logical or scientific by any means... il take one for now... OOOO something cannot be created from nothing.. so there must be a god tht created everything.. wtf? by this logic who created the god then ???? don't make sense!!!
scientists and darwinians dont claim to have all the answers but we promise that we will not make crap up just to claim that we know eveything... the quest for knowledge shall continue! we will unearth more and more amazing facts about our universe all the time.. and everytime i do.. our religious dogmatic cousins will try to find a way to accomodate them in their 'oh we knew it, this book said it, that book said it, this book meant it, that book meant it' crap just so that they can sya 'we know it all'.
sorry for the typos
in a rush:P
Re: Do you beleive in Darwinism or Intelligent Design ?
The following Harun Yahya website is a great advocate against evolution...You guys should check it out...it's called askdarwinists.com
Re: Do you beleive in Darwinism or Intelligent Design ?
oh. that Haroon Yahya Guy. i remember someone putting one of his idiotic idea about "why dreams are true" somewhere. I am going to post that when i get the time.
The following Harun Yahya website is a great advocate against evolution...You guys should check it out...it's called askdarwinists.com
I watched his research documentaries in college days back in Pakistan, i must say he is a knowledgeable guy but he look at things from religious point of view only. This is one of the reason we (Muslims) are so backward in everything from society to science compare to west & now Japan/China.
I watched his research documentaries in college days back in Pakistan, i must say he is a knowledgeable guy but he look at things from religious point of view only. This is one of the reason we (Muslims) are so backward in everything from society to science compare to west & now Japan/China.
Peace firenze
The reason for the backwardness is not due to the 'religious stance' rather it is due to us falling back on outdated fiqh rulings, zealous intent, and secularism of Deen and Dunya.
When seeking knowledge encompassed everything and our scholars of Islam were also the greatest minds in the sciences and arts we were leading the world with highest moral character and ethical invention in science.
Today we not only live in the shadows of the non-Muslims but science breakthroughs are unethical such as drugs and weapons and furthermore religion is reduced to ritualistic behaviour that we cannot explain nor hope to embarass ourselves with when conversing with the scientific minds of the West.
If we realise the real problem then it can be resolved. Instead we are leaving religion in the hope of being runners-up in the race for worldly greatness.
Peace firenze
The reason for the backwardness is not due to the 'religious stance' rather it is due to us falling back on outdated fiqh rulings, zealous intent, and secularism of Deen and Dunya.
When seeking knowledge encompassed everything and our scholars of Islam were also the greatest minds in the sciences and arts we were leading the world with highest moral character and ethical invention in science.
Today we not only live in the shadows of the non-Muslims but science breakthroughs are unethical such as drugs and weapons and furthermore religion is reduced to ritualistic behaviour that we cannot explain nor hope to embarass ourselves with when conversing with the scientific minds of the West.
If we realise the real problem then it can be resolved. Instead we are leaving religion in the hope of being runners-up in the race for worldly greatness.
Bhai Jaan i think you didn't get my point i was saying he "just" follow religious point of view whereas i believe he should also look into all the advancements in every aspect of life in 21st century.
Bhai Jaan i think you didn't get my point i was saying he "just" follow religious point of view whereas i believe he should also look into all the advancements in every aspect of life in 21st century.
That's not true. May be you should read some of his books before making such claims.
Re: Do you beleive in Darwinism or Intelligent Design ?
^^ well then my mental level is not with your par, anyway thats what i get from him.
Re: Do you beleive in Darwinism or Intelligent Design ?
why do we Muslims even bring up this topic of evolution, it's a man made theory, we shouldn't even have any respect for it. shaytaan has even infiltrated into our minds. May Allah save us.
oh. that Haroon Yahya Guy. i remember someone putting one of his idiotic idea about "why dreams are true" somewhere. I am going to post that when i get the time.
Well, if you've any knowledge about dreams and their psychology, you would know that dreams do have some basis in reality. But that is a different topic all together. Why don't you just check out the website to see what it is actually saying about the topic at hand and then you can express all the dissatisfaction you may have.
I watched his research documentaries in college days back in Pakistan, i must say he is a knowledgeable guy but he look at things from religious point of view only. This is one of the reason we (Muslims) are so backward in everything from society to science compare to west & now Japan/China.
Why is taking such a perspective backwards? Islam is a whole way of life. It's not something one practices on any given Sunday if he/she feels like it. Therefore, if you are Muslim and believe that Islam is the true way of life, then you would undoubtedly view everything from an Islamic lens. It's as obvious as that.
Why is taking such a perspective backwards? Islam is a whole way of life. It's not something one practices on any given Sunday if he/she feels like it. Therefore, if you are Muslim and believe that Islam is the true way of life, then you would undoubtedly view everything from an Islamic lens. It's as obvious as that.
Islam is not for blind followers, it wants you to argument, ask and then the concept of ijtihad so it can blend with every environment. As i said before this is one of the reasons we Muslims are in such grieve troubles today. Do you know Turkey is revising hadith's and no one speak against it? People talk about shariah law & Islamic state, please tell me how we are going to achieve this goal? Do you truly believe cutting hands, chopping off heads, stoning to death will be tolerated in todays world? We need Islamic renassiance !
Islam is not for blind followers, it wants you to argument, ask and then the concept of ijtihad so it can blend with every environment. As i said before this is one of the reasons we Muslims are in such grieve troubles today. Do you know Turkey is revising hadith's and no one speak against it? People talk about shariah law & Islamic state, please tell me how we are going to achieve this goal? Do you truly believe cutting hands, chopping off heads, stoning to death will be tolerated in todays world? We need Islamic renassiance !
Okay...but what I said had nothing to do with what you are now saying. Yes, one must first look at something independently of Islam, after that IF you are Muslim you may choose to look at it from Islamic perspective; meaning you look to what Islam says about it. This in no way suggests that you just blindly follow Islam. Also, you speak of Islam needing a "renaissance"...in my opinion, it just needs an awakening...we just need to go back to the Islam the Prophet (S.A.W) taught and implement it in today's world...
Okay...but what I said had nothing to do with what you are now saying. Yes, one must first look at something independently of Islam, after that IF you are Muslim you may choose to look at it from Islamic perspective; meaning you look to what Islam says about it. This in no way suggests that you just blindly follow Islam. Also, you speak of Islam needing a "renaissance"...in my opinion, it just needs an awakening...we just need to go back to the Islam the Prophet (S.A.W) taught and implement it in today's world...
Read my previous post again, hint hadith revision alot will change.