Do philosophical theories

diwana · April 24, 2014, 1:53am

Re: Do philosophical theories

Answer me what I asked for, honestly. I dare you. :)

I gave you example of cheating. What now?

When you talk about child consent, you are confirming my position that consent is not always be considered as central and pivotal argument to say that act is right.

Sometimes it is, sometimes it is not. Not a universal requirement for right or wrong.

I gave you example of polygamy. Consenting adults marrying, but some societies consider it not only wrong but a crime.

Some societies allow bestiality too. Go figure!!

Hope you learned something today. ;)

bella88 · April 24, 2014, 2:02am

Re: Do philosophical theories

animal doesn't give consent, hence rape and abuse. what part of this do you not understand?

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No. Sex between two consenting adults can still be wrong.
However you come up using **consent **as an argument, you will be wrong.
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do you understand the difference b/w consent and willingness? a child can be willing to do something, does that mean he gave consent? consent is only valid when the other party is informed and knows the consequences. adults can understand the consequences of sex, children cannot. that is why sex with a child is a crime, because a child cannot make that decision, even if they agree and neither can animals. therefore sex with animal is considered rape. i hope you can get this though.

**
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"Consent" cannot always be applied to make something right or wrong.
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**again you have no clue what consent means even? please go read up informed consent and then come back.

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Bella! Cheating outside marriage can still be between two 'consenting' adults but still be wrong. get it???
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cheating means lying to your spouse which is morally wrong, yet its not a criminal offense so i dont know what your point even is. cheating can hurt a person therefore people view it as morally wrong. why on earth would you compare cheating to homosexuality now? you make no sense here at all.

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And go ahead show me when I said no one should be allowed to use birth control?

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you said sex for pleasure only is wrong and with birth control, its only for pleasure of course. why do couples use birthcontrol rather than just abstaining? ofcourse the sex is to satisfy their desire, which is ONLY for pleasure.

diwana · April 24, 2014, 2:14am

Re: Do philosophical theories

bella88:

animal doesn't give consent, hence rape and abuse. what part of this do you not understand? do you understand the difference b/w consent and willingness? a child can be willing to do something, does that mean he gave consent? consent is only valid when the other party is informed and knows the consequences. adults can understand the consequences of sex, children cannot. that is why sex with a child is a crime, because a child cannot make that decision, even if they agree and neither can animals. therefore sex with animal is considered rape. i hope you can get this though.

again you have no clue what consent means even? please go read up informed consent and then come back.

cheating means lying to your spouse which is morally wrong, yet its not a criminal offense so i dont know what your point even is. why on earth would you compare cheating to homosexuality now? you make no sense here at all.

you said sex for pleasure only is wrong and with birth control, its only for pleasure of course. why do couples use birthcontrol rather than just abstaining? ofcourse the sex is to satisfy their desire, which is ONLY for pleasure.

So why bringing consent as argument for animals if they cannot consent?

You just keep repeating the same mistake here.

What part did you not get the consent is not always required to mak =e something right or wrong? Do you even read what is said to you or keep saying same thing again and again?

That is why I told you before a long time ago, you have no ability to engage in delicate discussions. Just wanted to prove it.

I know more about informed content than you would even know by the way.

Please go ahead and inform animals about being killed and then eat them next time. Please do make a video of that and post it. :D

There you go, now you came up with lying to spouse argument. ha ha!

What happened to "two consenting adult" argument now???? Didn't think of that did you?

I never said birth control is not allowed. ** Admit that you were accusing me for something I never said.
**
You made that point of birth control but I am all for birth control with some conditions. Obviously the birth control only applies between male and female, so it is fine for me to have male and female (husband and wife) be engaged in sexual activity.

What I said is that homosexuality and bestiality are purely out of sexual pleasure acts and hence wrong and it the act between two males or two females etc. etc. so the act is wrong in many many ways.

I did not approve anything related to homosexuality and acting out of lust ONLY, is what is wrong there.

It is a very difficult topic for you to handle anyhow. Sorry.

bella88 · April 24, 2014, 2:26am

Re: Do philosophical theories

thats exactly what I said, its rape. you're the one who thinks its not rape.

[quote]
What part did you not get the consent is not always required to mak =e something right or wrong? Do you even read what is said to you or keep saying same thing again and again?
That is why I told you before a long time ago, you have no ability to engage in delicate arguments.
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lol looks like you can't read so now you're changing the subject. yes consent is needed to make something right, or else rape would be acceptable.

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I know more about informed content than you would even know by the way.
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you clearly have no idea what informed consent is or else you would have never brought up such absurd argument.
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Please go ahead and inform animals about being killed and then eat them next time. Please do make a video of that and post it. :D
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please figure out the meanings and difference between consent, willingness, rape, abuse, and then post.

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There you go, now you came up with lying to spouse argument. ha ha!
What happened to "two consenting adult" argument now???? Didn't think that did you?
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is cheating on your spouse the same as homosexuality?? did the spouse consent to her husband having sex with someone else?

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I never said birth control is ot allowed. You made that point and I am all for birth control with some conditions.
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why is okay for heterosexuals to have sex just for pleasure then? you said yourself pleasure shouldn't be the only factor. now even you cannot defend your terrible logic. :)

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What I said is that homoseuality and bestiality are purely out of sexual pleasure acts and hence wrong and it the act between two males or two females etc. etc. so the act is wrong in many many ways.
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please explain why birthcontrol is okay when it lets couples have sex purely for pleasure

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I did not approve anything related to homosexuality and acting out of lust ONLY, is what is wrong there.

It is a very difficult topic for you to handle anyhow. Sorry.
[/quote]

difficult for me to handle when you're the one who cannot differentiate between rape and consensual sex? thats laughable.
And birthcontrol does make sex ONLY for pleasure, and if you disagree, you're being blatantly dishonest which you have been anyway

diwana · April 24, 2014, 2:34am

Re: Do philosophical theories

Bella!

I bet you do not even know what rape means.
Hint: Animals are not ‘raped’ you can use word ‘abuse’ or mistreatment though…and bestiality is not always ‘abuse’ but certainly NOT rape.
And here you are giving me ‘lecture’ on informed consent. What a joke.

Anyhow, I am done with you. You have no arguments and resort to false accusations just to win arguments.

diwana · April 24, 2014, 2:40am

Re: Do philosophical theories

Now coming to interesting exchange I read between Psyah bhai and bella about birth control.

It seems Psyah bhai somehow agreed to birth control being wrong. Please correct me Psyah bhai if I misunderstood you.

I disagree. Birth control is not blatantly wrong.

CoughCough · April 24, 2014, 2:53am

Bella if youre expecting diwana to yield or accept your points, im afraid you will be disappointed.

The dheetness that diwana exhibits is greater than that of the collective of every other human to ever walk the earth; past, present, and future.

Please ignore diwana like any sane person would ignore a homeless man yelling at traffic lights because they cant make their mind up and keep changing.

bella88 · April 24, 2014, 2:57am

Re: Do philosophical theories

you are clearly confused between consent and willingness. please learn the difference.

this is what you say but then you try to derail other threads with the same nonsense over and over. argument is between people who can atleast understand the basic concept, which you have failed to do so far.. lets see which other thread you derail now and bring this topic again.

and like usual, you failed to answer my question regarding why birthcontrol is allowed when its making sex for pleasure only.

bella88 · April 24, 2014, 3:01am

Re: Do philosophical theories

i agree with what you're saying here
i had left this topic but diwana keeps bringing this up in other threads. so i simply told him to bring his argument back here instead of derailing other thread.
i don't care to change anyone's views, everyone is entitled to what they think. but equating homosexuality to crimes and rape is extremely homophobic and i just feel the need to stand up for it.

CoughCough · April 24, 2014, 3:05am

Its really good youre standing up for an issue you feel strongly about. One would hope others would do it for things are important to them.

Just letting you know, diwana is a special case. Good luck with him.

Diwana has tried proving maths wrong in the past. And he believes he did. This is the kind of mentality we are talking about here.

diwana · April 24, 2014, 3:55am

Re: Do philosophical theories

Bella, be happy someone came to try to rescue you.

BTW CC: I proved in that thread what I was talking about and posted the video from a math site which said exactly was I talking about.

I never proved math wrong. I refuted someone who had false idea about math.

If you have something to oppose, at least state the fact.

REQUEST

**I was waiting for how many would make comment without having any idea what is being discussed.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/images/smilies/hehe.gif

**
Nothing is being said by me as against Calculus. Nothing new was said by me. The topic has many controversies and yet not settled.

I liked PP’s passion but was making him think of reality and not believing something which is still evolving and has no final answer yet.

For those who had their minds blown away I am sincerely sorry.

Watch this video, I said something along the same line.

Oh!

Pay extra attention to last few seconds…you will know what **exactly **I said above.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/images/smilies/wink.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=a2Ia_ZlUCaQ

It’s OK.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/images/smilies/smile.gif

By the time I posted, two more posts came as below.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Now, philosophy will tell what are very foundations of mathematics.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/all-views/633596-sorry-i-am-born-to-a-pakistani-but-cannot-read-urdu-19.html
I just read this^ post again, now I know why CC is so upset.

Bella: It was you who said I ran away. Remember?

Very amusing to see you are trying to differentiate consent from willingness.

bella88 · April 24, 2014, 4:02am

Re: Do philosophical theories

you ran away from this thread earlier and derailed another thread with the same exact things you were saying here.

diwana · April 24, 2014, 4:26am

Re: Do philosophical theories

I already had too much fun with you today. Sometimes later you can amuse me more. OK?

bella88 · April 24, 2014, 4:28am

Re: Do philosophical theories

this is your response to the questions you leave unanswered? good one

CoughCough · April 24, 2014, 4:29am

Diwana must return to hell to charge his batteries and get instructions from his master (prince of darkness) for his deeds for the next day.

bella88 · April 24, 2014, 4:29am

Re: Do philosophical theories

you seem to think its the same thing or else you wouldn't have brought it up.

diwana · April 24, 2014, 4:35am

Re: Do philosophical theories

Sorry to point out you couldn't get even an iota of what was said in that thread about math and infinity. :(

bella88 · April 24, 2014, 4:38am

Re: Do philosophical theories

diwana why do you bring up posts from all different threads in one?? you bring homosexuality here ( this thread was talking about evolution), then you bring this topic in the cannibal thread and now you bring posts from anther thread on here about mathematics? what are you trying to prove?
if you cannot come up with sensible points in one thread, you bring it up later in another completely unrelated thread. its the most bizarre behavior i have seen.

diwana · April 24, 2014, 4:49am

Re: Do philosophical theories

Please read below the whole chain of thread how the discussion went in to homosexuality.

It was OP, who talked about that thread knowing you bring science for your defense, but have no clue of simple scientific evidence and biology. LEt alone genetics.

Then you continued on yourself in that discussion.

Common in both evolution and homosexuality is lack of scientific evidence but there are unfortunately people who believe there is something in scince which cam make both false ideas appear correct.

As I said earlier in this thread: This thread could go any direction since Op had a broad question.

What is Wrong With You People??

you can think whatever you want, but it’s obvious from all your posts that you seem to think anyone with opposing views is wrong.

No, I follow what MAKES SENSE. I follow the evidence. I follow what basic common sense would say. I don’t follow anything blindly.

evidence is there for those that are willing to accept it. People will always find reasons to not accept it for the sake of their faith or other firmly held ideologies. i can give you all the information in the world that supports evolution, but you will disregard all of that. so really, dont ask for evidence when you have no intention of looking at it.

the post you quoted me in was a response to rainydays who felt the need to attack me personally and going completely off topic, and my response was for his post which attacked me. And please don’t tell me what i should be posting when you cant even read the post above my post.

New at Forum

Is it not this the essence of the discussion where people consider other person wrong if other person has opposite view?

Let me break it to you:

Religious people also follow WHAT MAKES SENSE to them.
Just because what makes sense to you does not mean it is right.

Word ‘Evidence’ is subjective.

For people who follow religion scriptures, scriptures make sense to them and they feel they have ‘evidence’ too.

People who follow scientific literature blindly are not different from those who follow religious scriptures.

No one can say who is right and who is wrong.

You think there is enough evidence for believing on so called evolution, (but forget about religious people), even scientific people question this “theory”.

My suggestion again: Read the topic carefully.

Have at least basic knowledge of genetics and biology etc. before blindly follow so called scientists with any degrees.

You could not even answer simple question on anatomy of man and woman in other thread, let alone trying to make a conversation on very deep concepts on genetics and biology.

punjabiiiiiiiiiiii womennnnnnnn

Fair enough, and I have no arguments against someone who holds his religious beliefs. But the issue is where people try to make it look like the science is supporting their beliefs when it’s clearly not.

I didn’t argue with this point. Yes, if you hold your religious scriptures as the truth then thats all the evidence you need. I am not trying to disrespect your or anyones religious scriptures .

here is where I disagree. People who follow science are not doing it out of fear of going to hell or for any sort of punishment. don’t most religous people follow their religion to get to Heaven and avoid hell? Science is challenged and is always developing. religion is not usually challenged and when it is, its not well tolerated.
No religion accepts challenges. Science does. that’s the difference.
I wasn’t a born agnostic or atheist. So i know what it’s like when one starts to challenge religion. it’s not encouraged and severely punished even in certain cases. so no, you cannot compare those who follow scientific evidence to those who follow religious scriptures.

But I have been called wrong many times simply because my views oppose yours and others here

if something is called theory doesn’t mean it’s just a guess. It’s a well-supported and documented explanation for observations. Science does not claim to be the “supreme Truth” like religious scriptures do. Science is modest that way. overwhelming majority of scientists, especially biologists and the ones who study life sciences, do accept evolution. Some are skeptical about certain mechanisms but in general, they all accept evolution. Scientists are always skeptical and always question every theory, and area always open to other possibilities. they are not closed minded, and are open to challenges and new discoveries. something very different from religious folks.

Is there a reason why you always seem post in such a derogatory tone with me? If you disagree, does it mean my knowledge is less?? You seem to ignore ALOT evidence given by scientists, geneticist, biologists yet you think i am the one without knowledge?

LOL are you serious? You lost that argument so badly, you couldn’t give me one solid argument in favor of your claims. anatomy of male female is not the reason people have sex, maybe thats your opinion but its not a fact. i find it so interesting how you defied all the modern psychiatrists, medical organization made of researchers and doctors, geneticists and biologists. please educate yourself before making such silly claims that have no basis. and most importantly, stop telling others they need to educate themselves, when you lack so much of it yourself.

I have alot of respect for those who firmly believe in their faith no matter what it is. To each his own. I could care less who believes in creationism vs evolution. But to call something a ‘joke’ and claim there is no evidence when there is, is not very mature. And you have constantly told me how i lack basic knowledge in every thread where you argued with me which I find very derogatory. The only time I have said that to your posts has been in retaliation after you said it. It’s really hard to argue with someone when they think the other person is beneath them intellectually.
so this is my last response to you diwana.
if you think i lack so much in knowledge compared to you, there is no point in arguing with you.

What is Wrong With You People??

you can think whatever you want, but it’s obvious from all your posts that you seem to think anyone with opposing views is wrong.

No, I follow what MAKES SENSE. I follow the evidence. I follow what basic common sense would say. I don’t follow anything blindly.

evidence is there for those that are willing to accept it. People will always find reasons to not accept it for the sake of their faith or other firmly held ideologies. i can give you all the information in the world that supports evolution, but you will disregard all of that. so really, dont ask for evidence when you have no intention of looking at it.

the post you quoted me in was a response to rainydays who felt the need to attack me personally and going completely off topic, and my response was for his post which attacked me. And please don’t tell me what i should be posting when you cant even read the post above my post.

New at Forum

Is it not this the essence of the discussion where people consider other person wrong if other person has opposite view?

Let me break it to you:

Religious people also follow WHAT MAKES SENSE to them.
Just because what makes sense to you does not mean it is right.

Word ‘Evidence’ is subjective.

For people who follow religion scriptures, scriptures make sense to them and they feel they have ‘evidence’ too.

People who follow scientific literature blindly are not different from those who follow religious scriptures.

No one can say who is right and who is wrong.

You think there is enough evidence for believing on so called evolution, (but forget about religious people), even scientific people question this “theory”.

My suggestion again: Read the topic carefully.

Have at least basic knowledge of genetics and biology etc. before blindly follow so called scientists with any degrees.

You could not even answer simple question on anatomy of man and woman in other thread, let alone trying to make a conversation on very deep concepts on genetics and biology.

As to other thread: You made comment on being omnivorous and said you ate animal/meat,.. but here said animals cannot consent. Hence I asked you question in that thread based on your statement here.

You kept avoiding the question “worrying” about the thread being derailed.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/images/smilies/hehe.gif

CoughCough · April 24, 2014, 4:51am

Re: Do philosophical theories

I cant imagine a worse torture than making someone read all of your posts Diwana.