Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
Post 56 brings up gay marriage - if it is allowed in Islam. This thread is about gay rights. Most if not all questions focus on rights benefits punishment abnormality.
So the question is a red herring. As stated earlier I am not too protective abt staying on topic. So no objections from me. However the question is irrelevant to this discussion.
Since the gentleman brought Islam into the discussion, that simply demonstrates yet again the lack of wisdom in combining religion with govt. Room for all kinds of discrimination based on the religion in question and interpretation of the religion by those in charge.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
Then just quit seeking our opinions agar tumhe itni hi takleef hoti hai. As I said before, it’s not enough for you that we are not acting in aggression toward the gay community. You will rest only if we also say that gay marriages are not a gunnah, they’re not haraam or abnormal…haina? Until we share your opinions, we are sheep. So, sheep it is then.
I couldn’t care less. I’m not a gay supporter. Far from it but everyone has the right to an equal life regardless of gender, race, beliefs and sexual orientation. Their life doesn’t interfere with mine. If it ever does, you’ll get my opinion.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
State and Religion should be kept separate, and state should treat all its citizens equally, be it gay, straight, twisted etc. As for religion, if he believes in Islam he shouldn’t be a gay (its upto Allah anyway to judge him) so to answer the OP’s question, i don’t care about the sexual orientation of others, he should be treated as a citizen and he should have all his rights as one.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
But when did two wrongs start making right? same was being said in this thread about dating.
My point is when you call yourself Muslim and know very well that something is not allowed in your religion, how can you advocate for that. Its just its law of the country you live? or you consider that your religion teach you something you can skip following and take an instance totally against your religion?
Sin is one thing, insistence on sin is another thing.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
so what does ‘civil recognition of their relationship so they have access to spousal benefits like the rest of the population?’ refer? If spousal benefits is not related to gay marriages, then I take back my question
Those who feel disturbed in bringing Islam in discussion should know that there are members for whom definition of spouse doesn’t come from western laws. It comes from Quran and no where Quran mentions spouse as a person from same gender.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
kal market main ek banda kele ke chilke se phisal kar gir gaya.. you know what… **that simply demonstrates yet again the lack of wisdom in combining religion with govt.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
Dear Redvelvet
You appear to have missed the point. I clearly state this thread was not abt what Islam or any other religion states abt gay marriage. Since the gentleman did bring up religion - something i did not ask anyones opinion on in this thread - I stated it was not relevant to the discussion. However , I thought appropriate I would offer my opinion on what the gentleman proffered. Not sure why this is upsetting to you.
Anyway I hope my response cleared things up for you. Thanks much.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
Absolutely, gays should have equal rights as straights. :k:
Hmm, I don’t think gays shove it down everyone’s throat by participating in Gay Pride marches. The way I see it, those marches are similar to St. Patrick’s Day or Pakistan Day or India Independence Day celebration parades that are annual features in larger North American cities like New York and Toronto. Onlookers and outsiders may perceive some elements of those parades and festivals as curious or perhaps even a bit silly or over the top, but for the participants it’s just a day of harmless fun and a celebration of part of their identity that they consider important.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
Re post 67, I am not disturbed that religion was brought into the picture (am not stating the gentleman implied as such). In the same vein, it is hoped others don’t feel disturbed that some have offered their opinion on religion and it’s role in governance.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
No matter how many arguments are made over however long, homosexuality will always be wrong.. morally, scientifically/biologically, socially, ethically, historically, logically and add to it… religiously only after all those reasons if one likes.
Sounds like some people just want to discuss this despite knowing the issue is already discussed in the last few months to death and some posters ran away when Indian law against homosexuality was mentioned.
Now, how many threads will discuss such an “important and vital issue”, is the question. How many in a week or a month?
Didn’t we have similar discussion not too long. Trolling at best.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
I do agree with your clarification on the gay pride marches. Just as ANY movement has its march, religious people have their procession, gays have their parade. In every organization, there are people who go over the top. Whether it be gay parade participants, religious folks who get over exuberant and start fights, or anti gay, anti specific race or anti specific religion people who feel the need to put down an entire set of people.
To be clear, folks do have the right to opine that gay parade is a proxy for shoving their lifestyle upon the rest. I just don’t subscribe to that opinion.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
The only thing I brought up those two issues is because, we seem to place an inordinate of importance on legislating private lives and not much on other things that are in public domain. Those in the public domain are easy to fix too and are beneficial to the whole society. Also, the burden of proof for prosecuting sins/crimes in private lives is higher ( 3 eye witnesses, is it? ), however, those in the public domain it is not hard. This is the case everywhere, east and west; whenever religious minded people want to impose their brand of government it is always on the weak first, be it women or homosexuals or poor.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
using bold font doesn’t make your false claims true, no matter how desperately you try to make it sound ‘scientific’. majority of scientists, biologists all agree that it’s not a choice. as far being normal or abnormal, if homosexuality is abnormal,then so is being left-handed as its different from the mainstream. so please get your facts traight before making false statements. its one thing if your religion is against it, but dont bring science, and ethics here which are not on your side. there is a reason why most secular countries don’t consider it immoral or wrong. some societies don’t mix religion with govt because they like to give equal rights to all humans, and treat them equally.
how hypocritical to call homosexuality immoral and wrong, yet if someone says anything about religion, you’re the first one to report them and call them insensitive, offensive and tell them that they shouldn’t be tolerated here. how about you start showing some respect and not be so insensitive towards others lifestyle? why is sensitivity only expected when it comes to your religious belief, but not for others?
its one thing if you dont agree to this lifestyle based on your religion, but to say such horrible things about them is very offensive to entire gay community. if you dont appreciate people disrespecting your lifestyle and religious belief, please show same courtesy to others.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
Dear Diwana
I respectfully disagree with your first para and leave it at that. You certainly are entitled to your views.
Re the fact these questions in the OP have been discussed in the past - I invite u to provide links to threads that discuss whether gays deserve equal rights, spousal benefits, are abnormal, are against heterosexual marriage, deserve to be punished. To the best of my knowledge, these questions have never been posed as a topic in a thread. Bits and pieces have been taken from statements made by folks in various threads.
As for India, let me make it clear this not about India vs Pakistan. However if you want to make it about that I won’t stop you. I just won’t aid and abet. I simply will say I am against anti gay or anti race or anti religion laws in ANY country, NO EXCEPTIONS.
I will make one request. Please don’t use accusatory words such as trolling. Especially when the thread is not about trolling. I am not one to report anyone. So I will let this go, other than submit this request to you politely. However, if reporting is something you do on a regular basis, I invite you to report this thread as an attempt to troll. Meanwhile, please feel free to express your opinions without making unnecessary charges.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
See if you think gays dont deserve equal rights then neither do we because in any western country, Muslims are the minority. Hindus don’t either since they are not monotheists. According to your philosophy, many different types of people are excluded and only those of YOUR kind are included when referring to basic human rights.
That’s wrong and against Islam.
My point is as Muslims, we don’t bother setting good examples…we just nit pick on other people. Vo ghalat, ye ghalat, sab ke sab ghalat. Lekin khud ko sahi nahin karengay.
In a land where the rules not about Islam…gays have equal rights and they should. Why? Because that’s insaniyat.
Qaum - e - Lut ko saza kis ne di? Allah swt ne di. To jo saza dega, us pe kyun nahin chordetay hein? Why do people consider themselves equivalent to Allah swt?
We have Pakistan Day Parade…should that be banned too?
Yes, we know homosexuality is wrong in Islam. Sure. Is there anything new to this discussion?
Learn to live in harmony people…bimariyan kam hongi aur zindagi khushi se kat jayegi.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
My point is just not to be apologetic. My faith doesn’t allow institutionalization of this sin like other sins and their public demonstration. When you talk about institutionalization, then its akin to encouragement. Its alright if you people living in west are minority and bound to follow the rules of land, but at least in that situation what does religion require from you? call / consider sin a sin and don’t hide behind the sentences ‘its their personal matter and gay parades are like Pakistan day parade’. Today people are equating it with pakistan day parade, tomorrow it will be equal to gathering during Hajj
and who said that people who are against gay marriages (spouse benefits) are in favor of corruption, illiteracy and other problems of society?
I don’t have problem giving other rights to gay people. I’m not of the view that they lack human qualities like loving children or they hate hetero sexual people, but I’m not in favor of gay marriages and granting them spouse status as I consider it institutionalizing and encouragement of sin, according to my religious belief and I don’t have any problem if I’m tagged as supporter of discrimination, bigot, or whatever for these views. At least, I’m not apologetic about my religion.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
That’s the thinking I probably disagree with.
I don’t consider myself apologetic. Being kind is not an apology and maybe that is the egotistical approach we all should just about drop already.
Why is it beneath people these days to be kind? Why is it that people will **TALK **about the Prophet until unka halaq sookh jaye lekin egos are too big to follow His examples? Apparently, being kind is wrong in Islam now? Being a good example is an apology now? Is this what we’re teaching our kids? Seriously? What a shame.
Like I asked before…why do mere human beings think its okay to condemn anyone or anything? Leave it up to the power that created them to deal with them. Who are you to interfere?
