Re: do animals pray?
arey....this hareem gets hyper most of the time.
and yes...i agree somewhat with your muslim perspective explanation. God (if it is there) cannot look like a human being and just because i am a human being i cannot think that god also looks like a human being. the same logic extended to a cat also.
Re: do animals pray?
Anjann if what you have written is a proof i can guide you to some websites where your myth hopefully will be shattered and also refer to LKC's stuff though i havent gone through it but i hope he is referring to the communication of animals.
Well let me go further to LKC explain me the concept of honey bees mansions, explain me the concept of salmon fish.
Did I say that animal do not communicate? I can repeat for you that language is not a unique tool for communication.
Communication may not need a language, whereas thinking process is totally based on language.
Re: do animals pray?
They do form colonies...at least insects do. They also exhibit complex social behavior.
Yes, but they been creating colonies etc. in one and the same form for centuries....no new fantasies.
Re: do animals pray?
Many consider prayer to be a communion with God, not an exercise in glorification. Prayer can be the sharing of thoughts and emotions with God, asking for guidance, absorbing/basking in His love and presence. I don't think animals have the communication/awareness to do this kind of thing. And unless you believe animals have souls it is unlikely they are praying or required to pray.
But if someone interpretes prayer as glorifying God and in the sense that animals are doing what God intended them to do indicates they are glorifying God - birds singing, fish swimming, bears $hitting in the woods, then I guess one can stretch it to say that animals are praying.
Re: do animals pray?
Did I say that animal do not communicate? I can repeat for you that language is not a unique tool for communication.
Communication may not need a language, whereas thinking process is totally based on language.
I though u mentioned about mansions, now again this can be a fantasy how can you say that they dont have any thinking process. I concede with the first one communication is not unique and also that there hasnt been any sought of evolution in them constructiong coloneis.
How can we ever say they dont have any thinking process where some facts and research say otherwise. Can you please explain, just think i am a novice.
Re: do animals pray?
arey....this hareem gets hyper most of the time.
pata nahi iss ka kya matlab hai?
and yes...i agree somewhat with your muslim perspective explanation. God (if it is there) cannot look like a human being and just because i am a human being i cannot think that god also looks like a human being. the same logic extended to a cat also.
shukriyah.
Re: do animals pray?
what kinda people we are ? we pray or not , it doesnt matter to us and here we r yelling about animals !
whether they pray or not , they aint accountable in front of lord for their deeds on the day of qayaamah .
It is you and me . who should be worrying here !
Re: do animals pray?
what kinda people we are ? we pray or not , it doesnt matter to us and here we r yelling about animals !
whether they pray or not , they aint accountable in front of lord for their deeds on the day of qayaamah .
It is you and me . who should be worrying here !
true.....per iss thread ka bhi to kuch khiyal rakhna hai na.
Re: do animals pray?
I think we are overdoing it in this thread. The Quranic verse that was quoted at the beginning on this thread does not read the arabic word Salah or any derivative of it, the word used in the verse is Sujud. So we are not talking about the ritualistic form of prayer here as muslims perform or even people in other faiths may perform.
A sajda is a symbol of submission, in our ritualistic form of muslim prayer it is the act of prostration. My understanding so far is that they completely submit themselves to their assigned purpose or task as decided by Allah SWT. They do not rebel against their cause or purpose, which symbolizes their submission to Allah SWT. Their religion is to simply follow the natual state on which they were created by Allah SWT. The natural state and purpose of humans in life is different than that of animals on this earth.
Their thinking faculty is the act upon their natual instincts whereas humans possess the freedom to act against their natural instincts or state.
Re: do animals pray?
her cheez ALLAH SWT ke gawayi deti hai.
even the cells. YES CELLS too.
n for animals. yes they too pray. humans are also animals> part of the most organised group of living creature (human belongs to phylum mammals).
every animals does have their language. dont u know Hazrat Suliman n ants. or Hazrat Suliman, man and Vultures.
human are Ashraf-ul-Maklooq. they are blessed, which kept us on the highest point of the food chain.
from the time of habile-kabile (crow anecdote) to the Qubani in the same time period, to Noah arch.......... to ants in the kingdom of Hazrat Suliman AS to goat in hazrat yousuf AS.......to Prophet Muhammad PBUH anecdote-e-mubarik of Ghar-e-hira (pigeon, peacock, n spider) .
every time t animals r used for/by the most blessed creature of this earth. they also do mistakes but they have better sense of realization of the Deity. (as dogs may see wat is happening in the graves, and also these creatures may sense Earth Quake n many other things, hence many things which are hidden to us are open to them.)
we are blessed that we unable to see wat these animals can see cuz no wonder we may die b4 r actual time of r expiration. we are blessed that we have senses to feel, to Feel ALLAH SWT that rest of the animals in the kindom lacks.
Re: do animals pray?
Some late crataceous dinosaurs prayed to the 2nd Sun, which suddenly appeared from nowhere and started getting bigger everyday. Few weeks later they realized it was'nt the sun, but it was too late by that time. ah those old days.
Re: do animals pray?
Wasalaam
But they(animals and other creation) glorify and praise Allah …right?
Re: do animals pray?
:k:
Re: do animals pray?
Wasalaam
But they(animals and other creation) glorify and praise Allah ....right?
If you are saying this without reference to the verse on which I commented I can possibly agree with you however they may have their own ways of doing it which in most part are unknown to us or allegorical. The most knowledge we might have this is what comes with knowledge about the kingdom of Prophet Sulaiman AS or a very few select ahadith especially the ones which mention about the birds glorifying the praises of Allah SWT (I don't remember if that was a hadith of Quranic verse).
Re: do animals pray?
wow! can't believe this has become such a big thread. I'll have to read thru all these posts but a skim tells me that in general people are saying that thinking is ok and necessary to think. Let's assume then that those religiousos that have been preaching 'stop thinking; have faith; if in doubt just trust the HQ' etc have no clue what they're talking about.
Then the issue is - once we allow thinking, that is, how do you start explaining things that don't make sense to a thinking mind. There are so many numerous contradictions and hypocrisy and uneven handedness built into a islamic society which a freely thinking and reasoning mind cannot accept as holy or godly.
for example - polygamy is ok but polyandry is not (even if the woman is well to do and the men need support). I am against both but it seems religious muslims want polygamy and not polyandry.
for example - the hypocrisy of halal killing. what difference does it make to the animal how it is killed?
for example - one sect of islam refusing the beliefs of other sects within islam
for example - asserting that nations laws are subordinate to religious law
I can go on - big and small.
bottom line - it is impossible to be a thinking muslim without being a hypocrite, going by what I read here
Re: do animals pray?
^Well Tariq nice thought for people like you, alone i have written this article http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?p=4919368#post4919368
I wanna add to the above article brother, i respect your views which surely you are entitled for, but i feel you can avoid some extremism rather than to read on your own than to blame religious zealots.
Well let me add now please answer these questions since your bone of contention is Muslim hypocrisy, now please tell m
To become a good muslim, i repeat again to become a good muslim
Well before you start answering the afore mentioned question, i recommend you read the link.
Well the list goes on, but since islam exhorts me to invite me to through beautiful and peaceful preaching i am restricted.
So its better to avoid the blame game rather than to make us understand from your POV whats right and were are we muslims wrong.
Regards.
Re: do animals pray?
In fact your posts simply prove the point that thinking and reasoning have to be suspended to be a muslim ...if that's what you're trying to prove you are succeeding
Re: do animals pray?
I read a hadith once (or maybe a verse of Quran) which said that Allah offered the test to all creatures & non-creatures (i.e. mountain, trees, oceans), but only humans & jinns were arrogant enough to accept it.
Re: do animals pray?
I though u mentioned about mansions, now again this can be a fantasy how can you say that they dont have any thinking process. I concede with the first one communication is not unique and also that there hasnt been any sought of evolution in them constructiong coloneis.
How can we ever say they dont have any thinking process where some facts and research say otherwise. Can you please explain, just think i am a novice.
Thinking process is needed to progress further. How much progress you have ever noticed in animals?
And you cannot think without the base of a language.
For a novice, I can recomend him to try to think in some language that he does not know, say German, Russian etc. Try it for your yourself and let us see if you can take a single step!
No facts or research have ever established that animals can think. All experiments have been conducted to understand their psychology, behaviour etc only. You are confusing two facts.
And off course, there is a difference between a novice and a stubborn mind.
