Re: Dinosaurs
At the end, I like to say that you may find close minded people amongst scholars but those kind of people are everywhere, anyway
neem hakeem khatra e jaan
neem mullah khatra e eemaan
and
neem engineer khatra e samaaan
Re: Dinosaurs
Dinosaur existed period. No questions about it. It does'nt matter if religion says anything about it or not. .
Robert, I think that most of the people in this post share your point of view. Religion (any religion) never claims that if its not in the respective religion's text book, it does not exist.
Re: Dinosaurs
Those would be alligators, direct descendants of the dinosaur.
Alligators and Crocodiles co-existed with dinosaurs, so they cant be direct or indirect descendants. However there is good chance that birds (not reptiles) evolved from theropodic dinosaurs like velociraptors ... go figure.
Re: Dinosaurs
Over all, very good points, Fraudia. I agree with you. To be honest, it is that way. Ulema do not pass a judgment if they do not know enough (at least majority of them). I've seen that happening.
I know of a Aalim in karachi (note to hypno.., he does not call himself Aalim, other people do). Someone asked him about the Saharia legality of Prize Bond Scheme. He told the person that he does not know the details of the scheme so he cannot tell. He then ask him to go to Mufti Usmani as Mufti Usmani's sepcialization is in Fianancial matters.
This is just one small example but I dare all those people who think that Mufti's and religious scholars have a close minded, one sided view about life, is to go and ask them questions and observe their response.
At the end, I like to say that you may find close minded people amongst scholars but those kind of people are everywhere, anyway
Tariq these ulema making statements have a responsibility, and if they are wrong it is responsibility of other ulema to correct them, and if the later realize that they are wrong they need to take their previous statements back publically.
There have been statements about stuff that are incorrect, incomplete, or show a lack of knowledge. I can show you one as recent as this May if youa re interested.
Re: Dinosaurs
here u go read it and tell me what is wrong with this picture.
Re: Dinosaurs
This one was an oxymoron. The scholar even gives the answer himself yet does not figure out that the questioner wouldn’t be informing about his wifes histerectomy if that were not the case to begin with.
Re: Dinosaurs
Seriously I dont get your point.
The scholar first told the general ruling about Hysterectomy as this method of conterception is not allowed
Then he did add that if its because of life threat then it is allowed
Then he said that IVF is allowed if the donor is husband, himself
Where was the confusion in the answer. Though the question was confusing. The person did not tell the reason behind Hysterrectomy, it could only be assumed that it was not for birth control but because of health threat, as he still wants to have kids (hence IVF question)
Re: Dinosaurs
"Hysterectomy is not permissible in the Shari’ah **as it is an irreversible method on contraception. It will only be permissible **if the womans health will be endangered without hysterectomy."
Uhh, his is not the kind of "outside the box" thinking I was talking about...
Re: Dinosaurs
"Hysterectomy is not permissible in the Shari’ah **as it is an irreversible method on contraception. It will only be permissible **if the womans health will be endangered without hysterectomy."
Uhh, his is not the kind of "outside the box" thinking I was talking about...
Is that an objection or agreement? I am confuse
Re: Dinosaurs
The person did not tell the reason behind Hysterrectomy
Who (women) would want to undergo hysterectomy for fun or even as a contraceptive when there are reversible procedures? It can only be for a medical condition such as uterine fibroids...
Secondly, if a woman is adament on undergoing this process just for the heck of it, and provided the physician sanctions it as such, then I don't think Islam applies to either of them because they are MAD/MAJNOON...
Re: Dinosaurs
Seriously I dont get your point.
let me explain
The scholar first told the general ruling about Hysterectomy as this method of conterception is not allowed Then he did add that if its because of life threat then it is allowed {/quote]
I dont know of cases where hysterectomy was considered as a method of contraception.
[quote="tariqlkhan, post:6, topic:167083"]
Then he said that IVF is allowed if the donor is husband, himself
okay tariq here is how ivf works.
woman donates eggs
man donates sperm
they are fertilized in a lab
then they are impanted in the uterus.
do you see the problem with the situation now?
Where was the confusion in the answer.
where was the confusion? lets see..
he still wants to have kids (hence IVF question)
okay now, so for IVF first of all the egg donation would have to take place prior to the hysterectomy, because once the hysterectomy is done, ovaries are gone, so no future eggs.
Now, so the embryo is created, and now has to be impanted in the uterus..
but wait...the uterus was removed in the hysterectomy, where does mufti sahab propose it gets planted?
the only option is gestational surrogacy, which MAY have been the intent of the guy asking the question, and gestational surrogacy where the embryo is planted in some other woman's uterus is not allowed islamically speaking.
Had the mufti in question been talking to some expert in this field, they would have figured out that the question is incorrect, and either they need to find more info, or they need to explain the situationa nd islamic views on it better to the persona sking the question.
Mufti sahab simply did not do his homework in this case. the answer is incorrect
as far as I know the only way for teh couple to have biological kids is for the women to have her eggs extracted prior to hysterectomy and then the embroys be impanted in a surrogate.
....
Re: Dinosaurs
Who (women) would want to undergo hysterectomy for fun ?
Granted that the Aalim was not aware of that, that is why he added the second statement.
As I said, the questioner did not ask the question in proper way.
Is not that our responsibilty to phrase the question right or is it always the reponsibilty of the answerer to do his research.
I can gurantee you that if the asker was sitting in person, there would be back and forth inquiries from both sides before the answer would come.
It is not fair on our part to crtisize an Aalim's answer based on a 3 line, vague (or at least a generalized) question
Re: Dinosaurs
Now, no one who posted after my post knew what the issue was because I suppose you have been lucky enough to not have to face situations like this. But unfortunately since these are the type of questions we had to address after we lost our twins in 2004, I have some knowledge in this area. as soon as I saw this answer I knew that the gentleman was wrong and id not understand the question and had not consulted anyone else.
so what else is out there stuff that ppl are passing fatwas on without consulting experts in other fields, finance, law, science, medicine... or even experts in a particular aspect of islamic jurisprudence. incorrect or incomplete answers.
I read a lame fatwa on surrogacy as well, I mean the explanation of that was incorrect, I believe it was by the same mufti. I will post it if and when i find it.
Re: Dinosaurs
Granted that the Aalim was not aware of that, that is why he added the second statement.
As I said, the questioner did not ask the question in proper way.
Is not that our responsibilty to phrase the question right or is it always the reponsibilty of the answerer to do his research.
I can gurantee you that if the asker was sitting in person, there would be back and forth inquiries from both sides before the answer would come.
It is not fair on our part to crtisize an Aalim's answer based on a 3 line, vague (or at least a generalized) question
It is his responsibility to confirm what the question is before giving an answer. if in doubt he should not have answered.
but as it stands an incorrect answer is posted in a fatwa site...because mufti sahab did not do his homework
his answer is incorrect anyways. had he consulted with a first year student in a med school he would have known his answer is incorrect.
he is saying sure have hysterectomy and have an IVF t have kids. they CAN NOT have kids via IVF alone. period.
Re: Dinosaurs
Mufti sahab simply did not do his homework in this case. the answer is incorrect
....
Yup its Mufti Sahab's responsibilty to do his homework based on a 3 line question.
Mufti Sahib answered two different questions, without creating any link
Hysterectomy, one ruling (from pg 114)
IVF, another ruling (from pg 469)
If for asker it was really an issue, he should sit in person (or call) and get a more customize answer. Till that time, Mufti's will always give a general ruling.
Its like doctor's. You go to webmd.com and you will get a general answer. You go to your doctor and you will learn things in detail
Re: Dinosaurs
the only option is gestational surrogacy, which MAY have been the intent of the guy asking the question, and gestational surrogacy **where the embryo is planted in some other woman's uterus is **not allowed islamically speaking.
How can anyone claim it is not allowed in Islam, yet marrying more than one woman is allowed? I am guessing if Mufti sahab had done his homework, he would have suggested a second marriage "in light of Shariah"...
Re: Dinosaurs
from what I have read it is the responsibility of the mufti to give the right answer, or to not give an answer if teh question is not understood.
but the point here is not just that this is incorrect.
this abundantly shows that mufti sahab did not consult an expertin this medical field before blasting the answer.
and that is what we were talking about earlier, that they need to consult with experts in other fields, which obviously did nto happen in this case.
No obGYN or reproductive endicronologist or even a general doc would have said yeah go get a hysterectomy and then have a baby via IVF.
Re: Dinosaurs
How can anyone claim it is not allowed in Islam, yet marrying more than one woman is allowed? I am guessing if Mufti sahab had done his homework, he would have suggested a second marriage "in light of Shariah"...
well the whole reasons used against gestational surrogacy are interesting but that is a whole diff discussion.
Re: Dinosaurs
from what I have read it is the responsibility of the mufti to give the right answer, or to not give an answer if teh question is not understood.
but the point here is not just that this is incorrect.
this abundantly shows that mufti sahab did not consult an expertin this medical field before blasting the answer.
and that is what we were talking about earlier, that they need to consult with experts in other fields, which obviously did nto happen in this case.
No obGYN or reproductive endicronologist or even a general doc would have said yeah go get a hysterectomy and then have a baby via IVF.
Maybe I did not explain myself.
general ruling is one thing, customized fatwa is another. You will be surprised to learn, how sometime customize fatwa so much clashes with a general ruling and yet it is according to shariah
Mufti Sahab in his answer quoted two different rulings, independent of each other. He did not give a customize fatwa
Its is asker responsibilty to get in touch and explain the situation properly to get a detailed fatwa.
I am sure that even asker did not make a life decision based on the ruling that you posted
**