Re: Dinosaurs
come on seminole uliove in florida dont u guys have like large 30 feet tall kangaroos hopping around
Re: Dinosaurs
Those would be alligators, direct descendants of the dinosaur.
Re: Dinosaurs
There's nothing wrong with using the term "scholar" for those who study religous texts. Scholar implies knowledge of one particular subject.
The mistake is when the only education a child receives comes from teachers who only have this limited knowledge. The child would grow up to be ignorant of such things as dinosaurs if that were the case.
Such things as dinasaurus?
Re: Dinosaurs
did our prophet pbuh say to sek knowledge even as far as china, the above statements regarding dinosaurs, one has to follow science, dinosaurs existed b4 man, but another thing is that it in the name of allah lord of the worlds was man living elsewhere b4 his fall to earth?
Re: Dinosaurs
People dont spend time studying Religious texts, knowledge that will actually BENEFIT us when we die..but make a big fuss when we can study things that wont help us in the afterlife.
The reply scholar gave was to prioritize your learning habits, learn and adhere to those things that matter to you most, and spare lil time for those things that are irrelevant.
Allah created all sorts of Animals and life and functions, our job is to worship him, and not cross the limits of his creations by questioning his authority and creation.
We dont have the knowledge, so why do we try to act like we have to know everything? **why do you have to know everything? Allah states in the Quran **HE ALONE **knows **EVERYTHING. So when you see him ont he Day of Judgement, ask him yourself.
Re: Dinosaurs
People dont spend time studying Religious texts, knowledge that will actually BENEFIT us when we die..but make a big fuss when we can study things that wont help us in the afterlife.
yep and by that token if people did not spend time studying medicine and genetics and biological sciences to develop cures and develop tools, systems, methods, and medicine to help cure disease we would be headed to afterlife pretty quickly
The reply scholar gave was to prioritize your learning habits, learn and adhere to those things that matter to you most, and spare lil time for those things that are irrelevant.
well that may be your spin on it now, but the scholar stated "Asking about things for which there is no need, shall still remain prohibited"
prohibited does not mean little time, alcohol being prohibited does not mean that lite beer is okay or pork being prohibited does not mean that one slide of pepperoni pizza is okay.. so when he uses string terms like prohibited ..then there is an issue.
Allah created all sorts of Animals and life and functions, our job is to worship him, and not cross the limits of his creations by questioning his authority and creation.
what makes you think someone askign about the existence of dinosaurs is questioning Allah's authority?
We dont have the knowledge, so why do we try to act like we have to know everything? **why do you have to know everything? Allah states in the Quran **HE ALONE **knows **EVERYTHING. So when you see him ont he Day of Judgement, ask him yourself.
so Allah alone knows everything, no question in that. It however is no excuse to stop going to school and learning geometry is it? it is no excuse to stop trying to invent things or understand and learn about anything from atoms to earthquakes..
Re: Dinosaurs
Dude, are you seriously questioning why man has the curiousity and dare I say duty, to study world history? Just because dinosaurs did not exist in 7th century Arabia (and Muhammned nor any companions or hadith mention dinosaurs) it is knowledge not worth knowing?
No one is saying all men need to know all things, but exactly where do you draw the line at what is worthy of study for men? No one is questioning his authority, they are studying his creation. Something He is surely proud of. Knowledge and the study of knowledge - all knowledge - is something that will benefit us and will be rewarded for.
Re: Dinosaurs
yep and by that token if people did not spend time studying medicine and genetics and biological sciences to develop cures and develop tools, systems, methods, and medicine to help cure disease we would be headed to afterlife pretty quickly
well that may be your spin on it now, but the scholar stated "Asking about things for which there is no need, shall still remain prohibited"
prohibited does not mean little time, alcohol being prohibited does not mean that lite beer is okay or pork being prohibited does not mean that one slide of pepperoni pizza is okay.. so when he uses string terms like prohibited ..then there is an issue.
what makes you think someone askign about the existence of dinosaurs is questioning Allah's authority?
so Allah alone knows everything, no question in that. It however is no excuse to stop going to school and learning geometry is it? it is no excuse to stop trying to invent things or understand and learn about anything from atoms to earthquakes..
Nice attempt to disect my post, however fyi, the last two paragraphs have nothing to do with the fact that we SHOULDN"T study dinosaurs, but about how we QUESTION the existence of everything and QUESTION **his **creation.
Read the first sentence of the Scholar's reply. Where he talks about Islam and Dinosaurs.
No point in responding if you can't concieve what I'm getting at.
Secondly,
Re: Dinosaurs
If there were no dinosaurs, then did Allah just drop their fossils into the ground to fool us?
I know we shouldnt ask pointless questions, but if god didnt want us asking questions, why the heck would he burry a 6 foot long femur in the side of a mountain?!?!?!
Re: Dinosaurs
One of the qualities making someone a good Muslim is that one leaves what is unnecessary.
That's the Mullah mentality which leads to backwardness. Yeh hi waja hia muslaman kabhi tarqi nahee kareengay.
Re: Dinosaurs
Dude, are you seriously questioning why man has the curiousity and dare I say duty, to study world history? Just because dinosaurs did not exist in 7th century Arabia (and Muhammned nor any companions or hadith mention dinosaurs) it is knowledge not worth knowing?
No one is saying all men need to know all things, but exactly where do you draw the line at what is worthy of study for men? No one is questioning his authority, they are studying his creation. Something He is surely proud of. Knowledge and the study of knowledge - all knowledge - is something that will benefit us and will be rewarded for.
Good post.
Re: Dinosaurs
Nice attempt to disect my post, however fyi, the last two paragraphs have nothing to do with the fact that we SHOULDN"T study dinosaurs, but about how we QUESTION the existence of everything and QUESTION **his **creation.
no one is questioning god's creation. It was a simple question that ppl blew out of proportions, because I suppose they dont have the answers. so rather than saying hey we dont know, they ahve to prove that the question is invalid and unnecessary and the asker is a baffooon...let me prove it to you later..
Read the first sentence of the Scholar's reply. Where he talks about Islam and Dinosaurs.
I basically do not agree with the first sentence either. he does not know whether there is sharai value, so he can not make that proclamation. let me illustrate by 2 simple examples if giving a satisfactory answer makes someone become interested in islam then it has sharai value because you are doing dawah by answerign people's inquiries, secondly if asking such questions leads someone to study dinosaurs and their extinction and comes up with some finding that helps mankind then he is helping is fellow man which is liked by god..education and learning has sharai value.
however the scholar and his quoted protege did not stop at that, lets examine their statements that follow, which is typical of a one two punch and now you see if now you dont abra cadababra of such folks.
statement 1)
There is a possibility that dinosaurs did exist. Islam neither negates this fact nor does it confirm it. However, there is no Shari’ benefit in discussing such issues.
NOTE: so here he says that there is no sharai value.. okay fine
statement 2)
Asking about things for which there is no need, shall still remain prohibited
NOTE: he makes a very long leap of twisted logic or lack thereof that there is no need for it thus its prohibited. he quotes quran in the wrong context, how would it displease me if i find out there were no dinosaurs or that humans have been around longer than we previously thought?
statement 3:
One of the qualities making someone a good Muslim is that one leaves what is unnecessary
NOTE: so at this point his cumulative statement is, it has no sharai value, it is prohibited, and good muslims dont do it therefore person asking this is a bad muslim..nice eh?
statement 4:
This tells us that many of our brother Muslims who keep investigating into unnecessary subjects,..........م, indulge in what has no effect on one’s conduct in life. Therefore, asking such questions is blameworthy
NOTE: so now he makes a judgement that since it has noeffect on one's conduct in life, its blame worthy, first of all not everything tat we investigate has an effect one one's conduct in life..if i find out today that whales used to have 2 legs a millin years ago, will it impact my conduct in life? ridiculous ideas. And whats with the blame
so by now the cumulative argument is.. it has no sharai value, it is prohibited, and good muslims dont do it therefore person asking this is a bad muslim and needs to be blamed..very nice
statement 5:
especially when it is already known that people who tend to ask such questions are mostly unaware of the basics of their religion. The problem is that falling for what is wasteful invariably results in making one stay deprived of doing what is necessary
NOTE: now he stereotypes ppl asking such questions as people who are unaware of the basics of their religion. how does he know, if someone has faith, prays, fasts, gives zakat, has done his haj, observes haqooq al ibaad, does not engage in shirk...and asks that question, then whats this scholar and his protege's beef?
so he concludes his cumulative stance as: it has no sharai value, it is prohibited, and good muslims dont do it therefore person asking this is a bad muslim and needs to be blamed, and such a person does not know jack about teh basic of his faith because he is asking such questions.
No point in responding if you can't concieve what I'm getting at.
Oh Iunderstand what you are getting at, but I disagree with you, the quoted scholar who sigjned of on his protege's work and the basic argument presented.
Secondly,
yes??
Re: Dinosaurs
NOTE: now he stereotypes ppl asking such questions as people who are unaware of the basics of their religion. how does he know, if someone has faith, prays, fasts, gives zakat, has done his haj, observes haqooq al ibaad, does not engage in shirk...and asks that question, then whats this scholar and his protege's beef?
so he concludes his cumulative stance as: it has no sharai value, it is prohibited, and good muslims dont do it therefore person asking this is a bad muslim and needs to be blamed, and such a person does not know jack about teh basic of his faith because he is asking such questions.
Very thorough, you really had to spell it out.
Re: Dinosaurs
You have to bring Scholars (in quotation mark) in every discussion, right?
If they start teaching about what is not covered in religious text, it would take them another 20 years to graduate one class. I never heard of any scholar caliming that what is not covered in Quran, does not exist.
Brother courses like Dars-e-Nizami in their pure form DO take 16 to 18 years, in which students are taught many frivolous things like the Diwan of Hafiz and the Mathnawi of "Maulana" Ruum... Wouldn't science subjects be more fruitful considering today's demands?? Do not tell me that this is not so because I have taken Dars-e-Nizami.
And given the plathora of religious "scholars" today, I'd rather have those who are better educated and few and far between than many who don't know jack about the physics of the universe and try to "explain" it in the light of the Quran... No wonder people laugh when mullahs translate dukHaan as SMOKE...
Re: Dinosaurs
Brother courses like Dars-e-Nizami in their pure form DO take 16 to 18 years, in which students are taught many frivolous things like the Diwan of Hafiz and the Mathnawi of "Maulana" Ruum... Wouldn't science subjects be more fruitful considering today's demands?? Do not tell me that this is not so because I have taken Dars-e-Nizami.
...
Mashallah, you have taken Dars-e-Nizami. Now I have to respect you more:)
Well if you are Dars-e Nizami graduate then I should go with your thought process cause you are better qualified. And yes I am aware of Diwan, Masnawi, Gulistan and Bostaan being part of Dars-e-Nizami
I want to ask this, though. Do you also recommend a quran tafseer or Hadees course for doctors. it will be useful for them. How about a course of quranic commandments for MBA students so they know what is halal and haram in fianance and business dealings from Islamic stand point
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Re: Dinosaurs
I want to ask this, though. Do you also recommend a quran tafseer or Hadees course for doctors. it will be useful for them. How about a course of quranic commandments for MBA students so they know what is halal and haram in fianance and business dealings from Islamic stand point
Me taking Dars-e Nizami does not qualify me to be a curriculum expert; however, I have also done my Masters in Applied Science and my MBA...
I would expect somone who would dare call him/herself a scholar to at least have some drive to think "outside the box", and that is not possible without having pursued education in a multidisciplinary curriculum at a Higher Education (or even Graduate or Post-Graduate) level.
Re: Dinosaurs
Mashallah, you have taken Dars-e-Nizami. Now I have to respect you more:)
Well if you are Dars-e Nizami graduate then I should go with your thought process cause you are better qualified. And yes I am aware of Diwan, Masnawi, Gulistan and Bostaan being part of Dars-e-Nizami
I want to ask this, though. Do you also recommend a quran tafseer or Hadees course for doctors. it will be useful for them. How about a course of quranic commandments for MBA students so they know what is halal and haram in fianance and business dealings from Islamic stand point
sure man, thats why you have to take business law and ethics as part of your courses in many MBA programs. it does not make you an expert but gives you some idea, and that when you are in a situation where you see some trends you reach out to teh experts and collaborate. As I launched a service globally in 2004, I did not know JV laws in diff countries, or how referral vs royalty would work between agents and partners,s o I collaborate with a company lawyer to get that sorted.
The point is that a general MBA here who has no islamic knowledge would not be very qualified to go and start making decisions for some islamic finance or investments company, he would have to study the specifics of islamic law..of whatever denomination is teh one being followed by the planners of that fund or finance company. or he would need to have cooperation fo someone who can answer the questions and provide some context.
Similarly, just because someone has islamic education but has to make a comment on lets say interest bearing checking accounts, they should have some knowledge of macroeconomics and all. dont you think? or at minimum they should collaborate with someone who has an expertise in that area so they have the necessary knowledge before making a statement.
Re: Dinosaurs
I think a muslim should know these things or strive to know them regardless of his academics. Similarly students of religious education should know the essential worldy knowledge at least upto High school level.
Re: Dinosaurs
Dinosaur existed period. No questions about it. It does'nt matter if religion says anything about it or not.
However, 230 Million years ago, dinosaurs were not as common as they became later. Ceolophysis, is one of the early dinosaurs, existed in triassic period (about 230 million years ago), so did Plateosaurus. 30-40 million years later, they were everywhere and 50+ million years later, giant souropods appeared. This era is the jurassic period, which was followed by Crataceous period, which produced giants like T-rex and Triceratops. There are already thousands of species of dinosaurs known from fossils, foot prints and even skin impressions in some cases. so question of whether they exist or not, is as ironic as it is ignorant. If you map the planet earth's geological history on a scale of 1 year, with first life evolved in March, dinosaurs first appeared in late June. They were extinct by mid-september. Today is Dec 31st evening, and first human appeared this late afternoon. Hope this helps to understand the scale. You can visit Grand canyan or places like this where you can see the geological history of our planet, and also read about Carbon dating, the method that tells you the age of a rock.
Re: Dinosaurs
Similarly, just because someone has islamic education but has to make a comment on lets say interest bearing checking accounts, they should have some knowledge of macroeconomics and all. dont you think? or at minimum they should collaborate with someone who has an expertise in that area so they have the necessary knowledge before making a statement.
Over all, very good points, Fraudia. I agree with you. To be honest, it is that way. Ulema do not pass a judgment if they do not know enough (at least majority of them). I've seen that happening.
I know of a Aalim in karachi (note to hypno.., he does not call himself Aalim, other people do). Someone asked him about the Saharia legality of Prize Bond Scheme. He told the person that he does not know the details of the scheme so he cannot tell. He then ask him to go to Mufti Usmani as Mufti Usmani's sepcialization is in Fianancial matters.
This is just one small example but I dare all those people who think that Mufti's and religious scholars have a close minded, one sided view about life, is to go and ask them questions and observe their response.
At the end, I like to say that you may find close minded people amongst scholars but those kind of people are everywhere, anyway