Dilemma thats killing me

Wish it was so easy Sameenji! ALLAH brings problems to the people he loves and trusts!

You seem like a lovely person "Marriedsingle" and I respect you for trying to make it work.

I think from experience within friends and family, please do not spend too much time thinking things will change.

You will know enough of her nature by now to know that yes she may improve but maybe an improvement of 10% either way.

The only way that she will change more than that is through some form of shock which isn't the way I'd wish her to learn.

Beleive in ALLAH, do the best you can and whatever happens remember you did your best and whatever happens it is all for the best!

Re: Dilemma thats killing me

I am HESITANT on istikhara because the shuyukh/imams/scholars I consulted spoke to her and derived that I should give it a chance and istikhara is not needed in the position I am.

I completely understand their viewpoint. They want me to give it a shot since the nikah has happened already.

Trust me brother/sister, I am going through the test and I know Allah wants me to come out of it as a stronger Muslim inshallah.

Except one of her brothers, no one in her entire family is one I could have a normal conversation with. Looking ahead, I feel concerned because issues always come up, and if the same culprites who ruinded our relationship exist, May Allah have mercy on us. That one brother of hers is also not the most favorite guy and is considered to be "wierd".

He has apologized and asked me to be patient with his family due to their mental issues and past. This may have ended very early after nikah but he convinced me to be patient and hope for the better.

I am following yours and the advice of ulema, so I never have to regret. Last thing I want to do is to ruin a girls life by making a biased decision when I know she is super emotional and lacks proper judgement skills.

Need your duas more than ever!

Thank you again brother/sister,

I wish I was super man and could take all this pressure but I am weak and its hard for me to stand this for much longer.

Like I mentioned earlier, I love praying at the mosque and since this started, I haven't been going to the mosque that often. I loved memorizing more surahs and I have forgotten the ones I had memorized in the past few years. I am always preoccupied by these issues. I stopped going to the gym. I feel bad for myself. Allah has blessed me with everything but this relationship has put in a very difficult spot. I cannot even share the severity of these issues with my parents since my Dad just went through a life threatening by-pass surgery. Alhumdulillah, he is doing better now.

I go blank at many times during meetings with friends or work. Last Ramadan was the toughest one for me because all this started during Ramadan. I usually do some nafal e'tikaf at the masjid and that gave me some relief away from home. I want to go back to my normal life. I come back home and I do not want to stay alone anymore. This thing just bothers me all the time.

but I am confident and have full faith in Allah, that I am being rewarded for this test and Inshallah everything will happen for the best.

Re: Dilemma thats killing me

In all honesty, at this point in life, I want to know from a Pakistani Muslim perspective if how hard it would be if God Forbid I end this marriage before or after ruksati?

I want to ask my parents but like I said, they will freak out if I even mention the word divorce here.

Any ideas are super helpful so atleast I know what my options are. At this point, I want to make it all work but like some of you said, I might be in denial.

What I don't understand is why you married this girl in the first place? She doesn't do hijab and you seem to want her to, you knew she had trust issues, her family is not very religious b/c they only pray jummah and are not big masjid goers- the only thing you said is that she prays regularly. Did you just marry her because she looked good? She matched your looks well- i.e. she was a good height/face/complexion?

From the tone of your posts, you seem to have a very high opinion of yourself too- you think yourself as the perfect balance between religiousness and modernness- and you wrote a whole essay on how you pray and watch movies and how you go to the gym and buy good brands and how you look so good that one would think youre going to a club on the weekends. I think you also have a bit of an ego problem. You were probably doted upon your whole life, and are used to being the apple of your parents eye and being praised by friends and relatives. You sound like you are as disillusioned with marriage as she is, that you "don't deserve this" and you were good your whole life and want someone who equal to you- the perfect wife. Not perfect as in beauty or religious or subservient, but perfect as in agrees with all your views, and is visually a good match as well (since you think you look so good). Look at how you talk about her:

[quote]
She is very short sighted!!
Not that smart!
Super sensitive and emotional!
Totally irrational!
and very immature!
[/quote]

You seem to think it's only her with the problem.

What I don't understand is why you didn't marry a hijabi girl and are instead asking her to consider starting. Is it because you found hijabis a little too conservative, not as fashionable while you consider yourself as a modern muslim?

But this girl seriously could be as you say- I think it's very wrong to ask one;s husband to break off family ties. Sadly it's VERY common, especially in the west, for girls to expect this. Maybe she needs time, especially with her trust issues. Also you mentioned some feminist views she has that are unislamic. Can you please elaborate? There are a lot of cultural things that are confused for religious. Did you know that the way they teach salat in pakistan for women (being close to the floor, having elbows resting on the floor during sajda) are not true islamic requirements, but just what scholars back in the day thought appropriate? elbows are never to rest on the floor, because it imitates a dog's position.

I think that both of you have to mature CONSIDERABLY. You would have been more compatible with a more religious/conservative girl with a less strong personality. I don;t know why you took a chance with her thinking that you'll be the one to "help her become better". The only thing I can think of is that you liked how she looked, or she warmed you with her personality early on. Secondly, I would be very insulted if I married someone that thought that they can improve my life by marrying me. You need to get out of this mindset- that is YOUR immaturity, and may be a cause of the problem as well.

Sorry if I am taking the tone of your posts the wrong way. The only advice I can offer you is that 1)look at her perspective on thing, step into her shoes. 2) be patient, sometimes time can do a lot 3) Remember that everyone believes that what they're doing is right. You think you are right, and she thinks she is- this doesn't make one or the other more right. You have to put aside your "righteousness" and learn to understand 4) have realistic expectations- nothing will be perfect 5) If you two find you are truly incompatible and too different, it sometimes is better to break things off before ruksati than it is to live a life of unhappiness out of the fear that you won't be able to remarry after divorce.

It's good you're doing counseling. Inshallah, Allah will help you both through this. I hope i haven't been too harsh on you. I'm not saying your wife is right- I'm just saying that you need to open your mind a bit too.

Snazzy,

This is exactly what I want! I want someone to point out where I am wrong and how can I improve.

Reason I married her was because my parents liked her and in our limited conversations, I got the impression from her that she was a religious minded person and although she didn't have all the knowledge, she had the right intentions to mould her life further in according with Quran and Sunnah. She is good looking, but looks were not my priority rather Deen was. I am not sure how much I could inquire/talk to her about her deen but I tried to stay within islamic limits in order to know her more. My parents, and other family members were satisfied as I had them look into her more since I did not want to indulge in haram by going gung-ho in "knowing" her.

I respect hijabis big time and I have nothing against them whatsoever. I would be delighted to marry a niqabi if I was to find one. As long as they were following the deen, I would be totally fine with whoever it was. I am not the most perfect muslim at all. I strive to improve, I may have become even weaker over the years. The point I have been trying to make is that I come from a normal desi muslim family and my essay is to elaborate that I have intentions to become a better muslim going forward. I;d love to have a wife who encourages me and whom I can encourage. My parents are liberal compared to me and I have never gotten any push from them in matters of Deen. I don't look good at all. She is probably way better looking than I am :)

Her family doesn't even pray Juma! I didn't know that until later...

I took that chance because I consulted people around me who have been in my shoes including ulema and they said this is normal, people change once you start living together etc. This was my main issue and I made sure I discussed this in detail.

You could be right! Alhumdulillah, I was privelleged all my life and my wife prolly wasn't which has effects on her way of thinking.

I did not know she had trust issues.

I know for a fact that I have the ability to change some of the cultural things especially the prayer one you just mentioned. I make a point that whatever I do in deen has a daleel from Quran and Sunnah and not that a pious person recommended it. I feel Islam is very logical. Its ironic but when I saw her praying, I was shocked! she did pray just like you mentioned and I didn't want to interrupt unless I had made sure. That was on my list and I was just thinking about it yesterday. That is not a big deal at all! I am sure if ulema prescribe that, there has to be a reason but we should confirm that as well. Those things can be worked on. What bothers me is when someone self-interprets quran. I have a very strong opinion on this issue.

One should accept Islam and not self-interpret things. It is different not to act upon "everything". Its okay to say, I am weak, I don't apply this in my life. Its wrong to say, I don't think this is what it means, or this is outdated, or I don't believe in this interpreation.

Jazakallah for your beautiful suggestions! Inshallah I will try my best to implement.

She probably is immature, but did you marry her to shape her life, or to build a life together? You don't marry somebody to change their religion, you marry somebody based on how religious they already are! You're not her therapist or her life coach.

Snazzy- You're so right! Why didn't you just marry a hijabi if that's so important to you?

A Niqaabi?! Whoa brotha

I didn't mean I wanted to shape her life, rather live together happily and get closer to Allah if that requires shaping our lives a bit.

I answered the hijabi thing in my last post.

Yeh! Niqabi is totally fine.... is that extreme?

SNAP!

Maybee you should not go to the gym anymore. Perhaps it will help.

Good Luck!

Re: Dilemma thats killing me

i couldn't read all replies so i'll just stick to marrieds first few posts.
Marriedsingle u never state wat actually shes asking for?if she wants a separate house u should provide her with that.but if she wants u to never meet or talk to ur family after marriage then shes being unfair but it seems to me u r putting all blame on her n her family without stating the actual issues.ur post shows u r the only working towards the relation n ur family is perfect while shes causing all problems and her family is abnormal.i hav a hard time believing that coz if theres a prob then u both are a part of it n u both r causing it.u say she hates ur family while I don't see any respect in ur post for ur future in laws.So either u should compromise n fulfil her righteous demands as ur wife or atleast free her so she can led a life of her choice.don't pity her.Allah has a way for every one.If shes not ur type find ur type.don't ruin her life n urs in an attempt to totally change her overnight.Islam didn't happen in few days or even few yrs.it takes lots of patience n sacrifice to bring a change..if u cannot sacrifice anything don't accept others to sacrifice their wishes n lifestyle for u.

Re: Dilemma thats killing me

I agreee with Mabrook- and that is what I was trying to say in my huge post, but the way she said it was much more eloquent than I did.

I must apologize for misjudging you and saying all sorts of things about you, and I appreciate your gracious acceptance of all my criticisms. It's just that when I read your posts, I kept thinking "who does this guy think he is?" for the reasons expressed by Mabrook. Anyway, I now have a better understanding of the context of your problem. I assumed you knew of her trust issues beforehand because you stated "I was aware of this but I did not know the severity". Unfortunately, people can be misleading. Anyway, sorry for all the bashing- and you took it with dignity.I agree that you shouldn't make your own interpretations of the quran.

I stand by my belief that you need to see from her perspective a bit. The reality is that your match is not ideal, and you'll have to make the best of it. Only you can decide how much you want to compromise.

Let me tell you a story of someone I know. This guy was like you- good, always going to masjid, learning quran, well educated, liked to dress well, watch movies, was always doted upon, family favorite. He married this woman, who was an immigrant or something, beautiful, she was suggested by a close family friend. They got married- soon it appeared she was less religious- she prayed and stuff, but was more liberal than him, and they kept disagreeing. the fights escalated to the point where she would do unislamic things just because she knew they irritated her husband. However, he wouldn't leave her because they had a daughter. Over the years, one child turned to two and so on. there was a lot of bitterness, her husband always thought about their kids and didn't leave her. Husband never revealed his problems to his parents. Eventually, years later the wife realized that her daughter was old enough that she would start having to think about her marriage, and decided that her behavior would probably steer families away from her daughter. The family had a reputation among their group of friends. Slowly, she calmed down, and started mending her ways, made new friends that didn't know much about the family's past. The couple get along now, but there is such a bitter history there, I don't think there are true feelings of care and trust between them. Each has resigned to simply fulfilling their duties. I don't know why I'm telling you this. Just- be careful and think things through. Hope everything works out for you brother.

This thread is a discrimination against people who have shorter attention spans.

Re: Dilemma thats killing me

It is easy to say a person can change, but you must look at this from her point of view too. Consider the way she's lived her life and how living with you will be a drastic change. In my honest opinion, you sound like a very good man, religious, honest, careing etc and could find a girl who would be perfect for you without you having to change her. The whole situation to me just seems like a risk, there is no point in getting yourself and her so emotionally involved in a relationship that may or may not work. Especialy when you have already come across so many problems. She doesnt sound like she is ready for marriage, not mature enough and most importantly not stable enough. Marriage is about compromise, not about changing an individual completely. Thats just my two cents, but I do hope whatever decision you take is the right one, inshAllah it will end well for you.

I haven't been around family life too much for the past 8-10 years and clearly do not foresee many issues/good things that can come out of this bond.

Such stories help me a great deal! Thank You.!

Anytime sister, you were giving me an honest sincere advice and it is true that I might have come accross as a mr. too perfect. May Allah forgive me for that!

Your suggestions, opinions and advice are golden. I am taking all these and based on groud realities, I am tilting towards giving this a chance.

Please keep the dua'as coming and I will pray for you as well.

Agreed.

I do not dispute the fact that I may have done things that could have hurt her. Honestly, the ones she has brought up are so trivial that the counsellor is shcoked! she goes like " this is nothing, it wasn't even his intention and he has clarified it many a times".

do you both live together? If not, then that is something to consider. Communicating under the same roof and communication over phone are different. Living together changes things.

When you start living together.....focus more on bonding with each other as a couple in the beginning.....instead of lecturing.

And here is a suggestion I have. Are there any charity/fund raising/volunteer work organizations in your area? The reason I ask this is because it is KNOWN that helping those who are less fortunate is spiritually uplifting, brings us closer to Allah, and it encourages us to reflect over our lives.

For example....helping the poor/homeless, teaching at the masjid, working with those who are needy. You BOTH can join such activities as a couple and gain reward from Allah and this will help with her spirituality/deen. Such events done regularly could also be ANOTHER way for you both to bond as opposed to listening to lectures all day. And you don't need to wear a hijab to do good work in the community.

MarriedSingle, u have to let people come to realization at their own pace rather than pushing. And understand that you can't have it all. You can never have a perfect spouse with all your desired qualities. If there is something about her that displeases you......then look at a positive quality of hers.

For example, if she doesn't do hijab regularly BUT she prays 5 times a day on time, then MashaAllah that's something to be thankful about. I think it's more important to pray 5 times a day than wear hijab because prayer is one of the 5 pillars and it is the first thing you will be asked on the day of judgement. See what I mean? Marriage is about compromise. Maybe the quality you are looking for is small in comparison to another more greater quality that she has. She might not attend Islamic lectures.......but maybe she prefers to watch Islamic lectures on tv and read Quran with Tafseer.

redvelvet,

You have brought me a lot closer to my final decision. Yes, we do not stay together and now I am considering doing that because 90% of the issues have been due to a long-distance relationship. I have fait in Allah and then myself that my patience and wisdom from Allah will make things easier inshallah. Also, I am seriously considering getting closer to our local muslim community and provide her with a circle which she choses to be with inshallah. I do see the will in her, its just she has never been given a chance.

I think once her social circle changes, she will realize the goods and the bads. I am not a saint, but people around me are definitely great people and awesome muslims to be around. I have fait that will have many positive influences on us as a family. I may have sounded a little to stuck up on Hijab, but that being a major issue, there are other issues first to deal with and im on the same as you are. Its sad but she has never had a good mentor to guide her.

I hope the sisters in my community will be able to fill some of that void in her life inshallah!

Any more suggestions? I am ready to be criticized as long as I can improve myself to give her a better life. and Allah knows my intentions are nothing but pure.

Re: Dilemma thats killing me

By the way, do you all have a clue how much reward you are getting from Allah for helping this brother in distress?

May Allah accept all your legit duas and raise your level in jannah, and that of your family.

^ Thank you. To sum it up, here is what you do:

1) Consider living together. Bond together in the beginning. Go out together, travel together, cook together......just spend time becoming friends WITHOUT judging her. Even the Prophet SAWS developed friendships with people of less iman than him without judging them. Islam was spread with gentleness, mercy, and TOLERANCE. Not through pressure, force, criticism, arrogance, and harshness. Think about it this way.....when we meet people that appeal to us..........we FIRST develop a FRIENDSHIP. And after establishing a FRIENDSHIPS......our friends are more likely to be influenced by us. So....first develop a friendship with her based on Islamic concepts such as compromise, mercy, flexibility, and tolerance NOT LECTURES.

2) Praise your wife when you see her doing good things. Praise your wife in front of others such as your familly and friends. When we praise our loved ones in front of others.....it feels really good and boosts our confidence. So don't just praise her in the privacy of your own home........but praise her in front of your parents.......in front of your friends sometimes as well. This can help her bond with you even more and it can help her bond with your family and friends.

3) Talk to your parents/siblings and explain to them that she has had a difficult childhood and that they should try to be friendly and engaging with her. This girl has a hard time trusting people. But when she sees that your parents and siblings are being friendly with her and welcoming her......she'll slowly feel more confident about them.

4) Here is something that I have noticed. Many couples become more religious with age and time. I've seen couples who have been married for years and with the passage of time, they become more aware of their religious duties, namaz, Quran, etc. There are some women who start doing hijab later in life. There are some men who grow a beard and start praying 5 times a day later in life. Their spouse does not ABANDON them just because they have not reached the perfect level of faith. Life is a learning process. Even the Prophet SAWS told his companions that they will have ups and downs in Iman because the heart is constantly changing......sometimes it is firm, sometimes it's not.

5) You both can work on projects (fundraisers, volunteer work, etc) that can benefit the unfortnate in the Muslim community. Such projects bring people closer together.......and this may be more effective than attending lectures. Actions speak louder than words.

6) Yes, I agree that Islam is a way of life. But keep in mind that the Prophet SAWS advised his followers that "do not make your religion hard for yourself, otherwise you won't be able to follow it"......and he advised them to** stay balanced*......stay in the middle ground.....and not become extremists. I have actually seen examples of people who become so picky about following every rule and law that eventually they get frurstated with following their own deen because they have made it too hard for themselves. Keep it simple: * Be a good kind human being and try your best to fulfill 5 pillars with sincerity, that's it.**

7) When having arguments with your wife.....try to look at her points as well. She might be right in her own way. For example, she is right that to a certain extent Pakistani culture does oppress women as I discussed in my first post to your thread. And give her credit for being right and then proceed to discuss your viewpoints calmly. If you both have to make a decision regarding a matter that you both have conflicts about.......then ask her if you both can compromise in a way that she gets some of what she wants and you get some of what you want. Meet each other halfway.

I think that everyone is telling you the same things (patience, tolerance, flexibility, living together with wife, encouragement, praise). You should have a sufficient idea now of what to do. So, now take these ideas and slowly put them into action. You have to start at somewhere at some point. Once again, best wishes.