No problem, and I consider you as a good debater and not someone using "bad tactics". That's why I made the effort to point out the difference in interpretation. Having English as second language, same as me, I can understand our mistake.
Anyway, should I have used "I" or "me" in the part "same as me" in the previous sentence? I never can tell! :flower1"
:)
Re: Did the Prophets before Mohammad (pbuh) drink?
Different thought process exists in ‘christianity’ about alcohol. But being ‘drunk’ or getting ‘drunk’ is considered sin.
Christianity and alcohol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
“Today, the views on alcohol in Christianity can be divided into moderationism, abstentionism, and prohibitionism.”
Re: Did the Prophets before Mohammad (pbuh) drink?
This Pastor has a different view.
He cited this link as well:
Liberty Bible Study Course - Alcoholic Beverages - Chapter 1
^deedawar, many Christian leaders want Christians to not use alcohol and they even go as far as bending scriptural exegecies in order to be able to prove their points.
Unfortunately there is not one scripture that prohibits the use of alcohol for moderate enjoyment. They also tend to NOT argue upon those verses that clearly allow the moderate use of alcohol, such as the one I quoted to hareem01, or this one:
Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more. - written by Solomon.
I understand the reason why people of Islam wish Christianity (and Judaism) to also adhere to the non-alcohol rule as per Islam, but unfortunately the two religions differ on this point. Accept it and go on....
^deedawar, many Christian leaders want Christians to not use alcohol and they even go as far as bending scriptural exegecies in order to be able to prove their points.
Unfortunately there is not one scripture that prohibits the use of alcohol for moderate enjoyment. They also tend to NOT argue upon those verses that clearly allow the moderate use of alcohol, such as the one I quoted to hareem01, or this one:
Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more. - written by Solomon.
I understand the reason why people of Islam wish Christianity (and Judaism) to also adhere to the non-alcohol rule as per Islam, but unfortunately the two religions differ on this point. Accept it and go on....
Peace The Old Man
Firstly you behave as you represent Christianity, but you merely represent a view, there are other Christians who do feel there is enough to prohibit alcohol.
You really like to twist verses to favour your stance ...
Pro 31:1 The sayings of King Lemuel—an oracle his mother taught him:
Pro 31:2 “O my son, O son of my womb, O son of my vows,
Pro 31:3 do not spend your strength on women, your vigor on those who ruin kings.
Pro 31:4 “It is not for kings, O Lemuel—not for kings to drink wine, not for rulers to crave beer,
Pro 31:5 lest they drink and forget what the law decrees, and deprive all the oppressed of their rights.
Pro 31:6 Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish;
Pro 31:7 let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.
In the KJV the verse 31:6 is actually more clear and states 'Give strong drink unto him who is ready to perish'
Who in their right mind wants to perish? And when you read the whole context can you truly say that this verse is an instruction to feed people alcohol or to avoid alcohol?
^deedawar, many Christian leaders want Christians to not use alcohol and they even go as far as bending scriptural exegecies in order to be able to prove their points.
Unfortunately there is not one scripture that prohibits the use of alcohol for moderate enjoyment. They also tend to NOT argue upon those verses that clearly allow the moderate use of alcohol, such as the one I quoted to hareem01, or this one:
Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more. - written by Solomon.
I understand the reason why people of Islam wish Christianity (and Judaism) to also adhere to the non-alcohol rule as per Islam, but unfortunately the two religions differ on this point. Accept it and go on....
I can accept your version and be fine.
But you are trying to accuse muslims in general for something they do not necessarily "wish".
If you think others in christianity are for prohibiting alcohol or they question the wine drinking or making water wine by Hazrat Issa (JC) (peace be upon him) due to muslims alleged 'wish' then you might be giving too much credit to muslims.
There are many views on alcohol in christianity and christian people as my post indicated and one view is yours. Thats all.
Re: Did the Prophets before Mohammad (pbuh) drink?
Here is a thought. Those who rthink drinking is bad - don't drink.
Me - bring out the blue label neat but 1 shot regulationm size please. Thank you.
Re: Did the Prophets before Mohammad (pbuh) drink?
But you're not the subject of the topic. The topic is about Prophets. You've still yet to explain to me (though you're not obligated to, in any way) how you guessed the Prophets before drank?
:)
Firstly you behave as you represent Christianity, but you merely represent a view, there are other Christians who do feel there is enough to prohibit alcohol.
...and they are unscriptural, as per the two links provided by yourself.
[quote]
You really like to twist verses to favour your stance ...
[/quote]
My pardon if you see it as such. Your argument unfortunately does not show how I twist the verses.
[quote]
Who in their right mind wants to perish? And when you read the whole context can you truly say that this verse is an instruction to feed people alcohol or to avoid alcohol?
[/quote]
Now YOU are putting words in my mouth. I never said people should use this verse to give alcohol to others. The mere fact that I did not quote the verse location is because I know how some people might misuse the verse.
Bottom line: NOWHERE in the Bible is the moderately use for enjoyment of alcohol called sin or prohibited.
But you are trying to accuse muslims in general for something they do not necessarily "wish".
I have seen umteen time how some Muslim members try and twist Biblical scripture trying to demonstate that some part of Islam and Christianity is the same. Just accept it that there is major differences between the two religions and move on!
[quote]
There are many views on alcohol in christianity and christian people as my post indicated and one view is yours. Thats all.
[/QUOTE]
ANYONE in Christianity that holds/teaches that the moderately use for enjoyment purposes of alcohol is sin and Christians should abstain from alcohol, is NON-Biblical as proven. Enough said! Not my view, the Bibles view!
But you're not the subject of the topic. The topic is about Prophets. You've still yet to explain to me (though you're not obligated to, in any way) how you guessed the Prophets before drank?
:)
The lives of the known prophets are only discussed in the Bible and Qu'ran. As far as the Bible goes (and you may suggest that the Bible is flawed and ignore its version of events), the following people that Islam (not necessary Christianity/Judaism) see as prophets DID use alcohol:
Noah, Lot, Isaac, Joseph, Moses, King David, King Solomon, and many-many more.
I understand Islam to only accept the Qu'rans version, but it does not impact on Christianity teachings on the subject.
Therefor, according to Islam and the Qu'ran, NONE of the prophets drank any alcohol. According to Judaism and Christianity, many of the men of standing (prophets, kings, etc.) DID use alcohol.
...and they are unscriptural, as per the two links provided by yourself.
My pardon if you see it as such. Your argument unfortunately does not show how I twist the verses.
Now YOU are putting words in my mouth. I never said people should use this verse to give alcohol to others. The mere fact that I did not quote the verse location is because I know how some people might misuse the verse.
Bottom line: NOWHERE in the Bible is the moderately use for enjoyment of alcohol called sin or prohibited.
but it's been condemned heavily.
but it's been condemned heavily.
Drunkeness, yes. In fact, the Bible clearly say a drunkard will not be saved.
Re: Did the Prophets before Mohammad (pbuh) drink?
How abt this................Avoid drinking not because the Quran says so or Bible says so ? Why can't you avoid drinking because it not healthy for you ?
Drunkeness, yes. In fact, the Bible clearly say a drunkard will not be saved.
It also says beer is not for kings and rulers...give it those who are perishing.
How abt this................Avoid drinking not because the Quran says so or Bible says so ? Why can't you avoid drinking because it not healthy for you ?
There is some indication that an occasional red wine is healthy....
I think everything boils down to this:
If you are part of Islam, alcohol is forbidden and non of the Prophets used alcohol.
If you are part of Christianity, the enjoyment of alcoholic beverages in moderation is acceptable, and some Prophets did use it.
If you are part of Christianity, it is wise to not use alcohol because of the inherent abuse and the perception of non-believers.
About point 3, Paul the Apostle showed some very good sense when he asked that strong believers should live in such a way that might not trip weak believers, even when it comes to food and drink. When I worked in an evironment in South Africa where the majority people only accept that alcohol use go hand-in-hand with abuse (they did not recognise/accept that it can be used in moderation), I was a teetotaller for about 15 years.
dude drinking became wrong when God wanted it to be stopped.
So 2000 year ago it was fine to drink. But if you ask me prophets were chosen ppl they must have avoided drinking or atleast they must have avoided getten impaired.
lol your talking about prophet isa(as) turning water into wine, not drinking wine:P and even the turning water into wine is the first miracle he performed in the bible , keep in mind that the bible is distorted .... so please provide accurate back up claiming that prophets used to drink then i will give a backed up answer untill then I guess its just tit 4 tat aye?
I have seen umteen time how some Muslim members try and twist Biblical scripture trying to demonstate that some part of Islam and Christianity is the same. Just accept it that there is major differences between the two religions and move on!!
Well you say you have seen some muslims members people twisting words of bible for their so called interest.
You also said people in Christianity have twisted words of bible for their interest.
If anyone tries to show someone else's view you would say the same thing.
Your view of bible must always be considered authentic and valid..................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)
ANYONE in Christianity that holds/teaches that the moderately use for enjoyment purposes of alcohol is sin and Christians should abstain from alcohol, is NON-Biblical as proven. Enough said! Not my view, the Bibles view!
And other christians are fool not to follow your point of view?
lol your talking about prophet isa(as) turning water into wine, not drinking wine:P and even the turning water into wine is the first miracle he performed in the bible , keep in mind that the bible is distorted .... so please provide accurate back up claiming that prophets used to drink then i will give a backed up answer untill then I guess its just tit 4 tat aye?
he turned water into wine to do what? to make the color scheme better?
^deedawar, many Christian leaders want Christians to not use alcohol and they even go as far as bending scriptural exegecies in order to be able to prove their points.
Unfortunately there is not one scripture that prohibits the use of alcohol for moderate enjoyment. They also tend to NOT argue upon those verses that clearly allow the moderate use of alcohol, such as the one I quoted to hareem01, or this one:
Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more. - written by Solomon.
I understand the reason why people of Islam wish Christianity (and Judaism) to also adhere to the non-alcohol rule as per Islam, but unfortunately the two religions differ on this point. Accept it and go on....
"Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.* - written by Solomon."
I Dont get it TOM, how moderate to you have to be on wine to acheive what Solomon has said as , yet you say heavy use is a Sin.