Re: DG ISI being sacked?
sometimes i wonder do Pakistan suffer from khaki fetish?
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
On Saturday the military and political leadership will attend the DCC meeting.http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2012/01/120112_dcc_meeting_called_rh.shtml
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Pakistan’s army is using rumours where it once used force
As the rumours of an impending coup circulated in Pakistan this week, an inquiry commission investigating the death of the journalist Saleem Shehzad submitted its report to the Pakistan government.** The report has not been made public yet but members of the commission leaked to the press the only bit of information that mattered: the commission has fully absolved Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), **the prime suspect in the torture and murder of Shehzad. Hours after his murder most of Shehzad’s colleagues and friends were convinced that it was an ISI job.
Another judicial commission is holding regular hearings to find out how Osama bin Laden managed to live near a military garrison in Abbottabad. Whatever this commission may or may not achieve, you don’t need to be an analyst to predict that it will absolve the army and its intelligence agencies of any culpability.
**While a supreme court has been hearing, for years now, the cases of hundreds of missing persons, mostly Baloch activists who, their families allege, have been kidnapped by the military agencies. The bullet-riddled bodies of these activists keep appearing in the towns and villages of Balochistan almost every day. There is not a single bereaved family in the province that has any doubts about who is behind these killings. Yet, army officials, on the rare occasion they are asked, always throw up their hands in the air and say “Who, us?”
It was this institution that, on Wednesday, told the elected government that it should mind its language, or face “grave consequences” for the country.
**
This stand-off between the army and the government started over yet another investigation that the army is keen on. The army believes that President Zardari, through his ambassador in Washington, tried to lobby the US government to save himself from an alleged coup, after a memo emerged last October. The government denies it. The matter is in the court. Although the media is full of talk of sovereignty and honour once again, everybody seems to have missed the basic fact that in trying to save ourselves from a coup we have reached the brink of yet another coup.
Pakistan’s army has launched four coups and started and lost as many wars with India. Yet it still considers itself the sole arbiter of national interest and public morality. An army that’s not accountable to its own people is not a rare thing even in this day and age, but Pakistan’s army has the singular distinction of waging an almost continuous war against its own people and getting paid to do it. Pakistan’s army is as corrupt as the politicians from whom it wants to save the country. It’s just better at paperwork. If you are a politician in Pakistan you are likely to end up in a jail, or in exile, and in some cases hanged, or just bombed out of existence. If you are a general you are likely to spend your retirement years on a golf course paid by taxpayers, and own a holiday home in suburban Toronto. Pakistan’s president and prime minster may not be great leaders, but between them they have spent 15 years in jails, mostly under military rulers.
It’s easy for the army to give incompetent and corrupt politicians a bloody nose, but to come up with any remedies for an ailing country is another matter. And, lest we forget, it wasn’t the politicians who got this country into this fine mess.
The fact that instead of launching a coup the army has had to rely on rumours of a coup to deal with the government may be read as a sign that the Pakistan army is not as powerful – or shortsighted as it once was. But when it overthrew the last elected government, the then prime minister Nawaz Sharif had a two-thirds majority in parliament, and there was nobody clamouring for military rule. The army then stayed in power for nine years.
The classic garrison punishment for a new recruit is that he is asked to dig a hole in the ground. After the hole has been dug, you get a mound of earth which obviously looks unseemly in an otherwise spick and span training ground. Hence, very logically, the recruit is asked to dig another hole so that this earth can be disposed off. And then another and another till a time the recruit has learned his lesson. Pakistan’s army has turned this quaint little military routine into an elaborate ideology and transformed a promising country into a desolate land full of potholes.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
So they inveted memogate in reply
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Who is the boss here? This threat clearly indicates they consider democratic government as peace of $h!t. Gilani should fire them under the treason and violation of constitution without delay even it cost this government to pack up. Enough is Enough. ye 65 salon se mulk ke saath khilwarh kartay rahay hain. What they think they are? Gods of Pakistan???
http://e.jang.com.pk/01-12-2012/karachi/page1.asp#;
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Yes but gillani wouldn't do that, he could have fired at least the isi chief if he wanted to on allegations of incompetence.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Yes but gillani wouldn't do that, he could have fired at least the isi chief if he wanted to on allegations of incompetence.
Both are liable for treason and violation of constitution of Pakistan. They should be fired.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Our Generals are not known as Crore-Commanders for nothing. They start the war and lose it They use these Quranic verses to legitimise themselves but inside are coconuts.
The Army treats the public with contempt and is the BIGGEST cause of poverty in Pakistan. They have budgets that no one can question. I felt ashamed once how a Major friend of mine in the middle of not so hot March put the air conditionning on. I told him it was not hot and wanted him to take it off but they have an easy life.
I like the fact that this PPP Government has done one thing very well - it has castrated the army a little.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
i'm amazed by how many pakistanis are emotionally invested in the careers of their army chief and spy chief. in any other country, nobody even knows the name of their army chief let alone head of intelligence...be it US, india, china, whoever.
there is a big problem when an army chief has higher name-recall value than the prime minister.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
please save me from my army!!!:halo:
http://www.dawn.com/2012/01/13/pm-gilani-called-uk-fearing-coup-official.html
PM Gilani called UK, fearing coup: official
**ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s prime minister telephoned the top British diplomat in the country this week expressing fears that the Pakistani army might be about to stage a coup, a British official and an official in Islamabad said Friday.
**The call, which one official said was “panicky”, suggests there was – or perhaps still is – a genuine fear at the highest level of the Pakistani government that army might carry out a coup or support possible moves by the Supreme Court to topple the civilian leadership.
Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani asked High Commissioner Adam Thomson for Britain to support his embattled government, according to the officials, who didn’t give their names because of the sensitivity of the issue. It’s unclear if the British government took any action.
Such is the weakness of state institutions, Pakistani leaders have often looked to foreign powers, especially the United States and Gulf countries, to intervene in domestic affairs, mediate disputes between feuding power centers or “guarantee” agreements between them.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
What a shame we have a bhaigharat Army like this. A curse on Pakistan.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
What a shame we have a bhaigharat Army like this. A curse on Pakistan.
and ghairatmand PM who refuses to listen to court of its own country but will call gori chamri for help.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
^ well-said!!
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
i'm amazed by how many pakistanis are emotionally invested in the careers of their army chief and spy chief. in any other country, nobody even knows the name of their army chief let alone head of intelligence...be it US, india, china, whoever.
there is a big problem when an army chief has higher name-recall value than the prime minister.
Gilani is hardly a worthy leader and also he has been around less longer than Kayani. However, I feel he is well known enough and probably equally well known as kayani. He got a lot of media attention when he became a PM. He is now more infamous than famous.
For some reason people on this board are more anti-PPP than anti-PML. The PPP are more hated. Our Army is seen as a sacred cow by so many here. There are many posters here who can take time to criticise Zardari yet wont dare say a bad word about the beloved army.
The reality is they are both messy and deserve all the dirt thrown at them. However, some here are hypocritically selective.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
and ghairatmand PM who refuses to listen to court of its own country but will call gori chamri for help.
CJ is only against PPP, he has never taken any case against army, NS, Musharraf, etc. His focus against one party is made him biased and prejudice, therefore not credible.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
i'm amazed by how many pakistanis are emotionally invested in the careers of their army chief and spy chief. in any other country, nobody even knows the name of their army chief let alone head of intelligence...be it US, india, china, whoever.
there is a big problem when an army chief has higher name-recall value than the prime minister.
And I am amazed how many Indians are obsessed with ISI. They dont know anything about RAW but every Indian knows about ISI. There is a big problem when neighbours intelligence agency has higher profile than your own.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
And I am amazed how many Indians are obsessed with ISI. They dont know anything about RAW but every Indian knows about ISI. There is a big problem when neighbours intelligence agency has higher profile than your own.
Ehsan- If FSB,Mossad, etc, sent gunmen to mow down over 100 people in Birmingham, I bet you would be obssessed with them as well.
And who says Indians don't know about RAW? RAW has the same profile in India as MI5/6 has in UK.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
For some reason people on this board are more anti-PPP than anti-PML. The PPP are more hated. Our Army is seen as a sacred cow by so many here. There are many posters here who can take time to criticise Zardari yet wont dare say a bad word about the beloved army.
why should anyone have anything to say about the army? there should be nothing to say, whether good or bad, unless it has to do with some military tactics or defense issues. everyone in every country generically supports their army as a function of patriotism but in pakistan that support is much more similar to support for a political party. that should be a scary thought but for some reason is not.
And I am amazed how many Indians are obsessed with ISI. They dont know anything about RAW
indians are obviously aware of RAW but don't know much about it or its leadership because it is ultra low-profile and is not a feature of daily life the way ISI is. RAW is not a major power center that meddles in politics, media, etc. it behaves like an external intelligence agency should and stays out of the public eye. why should indians know who the leader of RAW is or have an opinion about him?
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but every Indian knows about ISI. There is a big problem when neighbours intelligence agency has higher profile than your own.
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yes, i agree it is a very big problem. the problem is the reason for this high profile. indians are obviously aware of the ISI because it is meddlesome in a very overt way. you can make tit-for-tat accusations about random bomb blasts (and possibly balochistan) but that's where the ISI-RAW equivalence ends. the ISI is on the indian civilian radar because of major issues including: an overt 20 year sponsorship and management of large-scale terrorist operations in kashmir and sponsorship of major terrorist events like 26/11.
further, ISI is on the global radar because it is incredibly sloppy and has its exploits regularly featured in both the international and domestic news...threating and murdering journalists, intercepted calls during terrorist attacks, key participant in major political scandals...not to mention high-profile duplicity in afghanistan.
you are creating a false equivalency with this comparison.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
yes, i agree it is a very big problem. the problem is the reason for this high profile. indians are obviously aware of the ISI because it is meddlesome in a very overt way. you can make tit-for-tat accusations about random bomb blasts (and possibly balochistan) but that's where the ISI-RAW equivalence ends. the ISI is on the indian civilian radar because of major issues including: an overt 20 year sponsorship and management of large-scale terrorist operations in kashmir and sponsorship of major terrorist events like 26/11.
further, ISI is on the global radar because it is incredibly sloppy and has its exploits regularly featured in both the international and domestic news...threating and murdering journalists, intercepted calls during terrorist attacks, key participant in major political scandals...not to mention high-profile duplicity in afghanistan.
you are creating a false equivalency with this comparison.
The Indians like to blame all their intelligence failures on ISI. Just show how incompetent their own intelligence service is. Head in the sand scenario. That is why they are obsessed with ISI.