Re: DG ISI being sacked?
ISI is not Pasha
Pasha has availed two extentions already .
In has tenure we have seen a total failure .
He was known as an honest one before this post .
We don't like easy ways
Let the things go normally to their end.
Last two months .
His tenure is no more , let him complete .
Kiani, Gailani.CJ ,government all are in their last year .
Let the people decide their future .
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Gilani is hardly a worthy leader and also he has been around less longer than Kayani. However, I feel he is well known enough and probably equally well known as kayani. He got a lot of media attention when he became a PM. He is now more infamous than famous.
For some reason people on this board are more anti-PPP than anti-PML. The PPP are more hated. Our Army is seen as a sacred cow by so many here. There are many posters here who can take time to criticise Zardari yet wont dare say a bad word about the beloved army.
The reality is they are both messy and deserve all the dirt thrown at them. However, some here are hypocritically selective.
The reason is simple. Both are corrupt (and I support neither) but NS (rightly or wrongly) is viewed by many in Pakistan as the lesser evil. The perception among most people (rightly or wrongly) is that despite being corrupt, NS would never sell the country or risk national security.
i.e. Zardari is not only a corrupt person but also a security risk..
We all know by now what Haqqani (under orders of PPP government) was doing and how he was threatening national security by issuing visas to US contractors (read CIA spies) like freebies (Most people in Pakistan believe that NS however bad and corrupt would never have allowed that). There is relative peace in Pakistan ever since those agents were forced to leave the country some months ago under pressure from Pakistan army (I do realise that there are other reasons besides this for the sharp decline in TTP-related attacks on our own people incl. military action and ongoing backdoor meetings/talks between military/government officials and TTP)
Maybe if PPP was led by someone like Aitzaz or Rabbani (who have integrity) the general perception about the party would be different. The fact is it is not just the army but many in Pakistan who do not trust Zardari and would like (even if they would like the PPP government and parliament to complete their term for the sake of setting a good precedent for future civilian governments) to see the back of him.
My 2 cents
(ps. are you khehkeshan by any chance!!)
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Maybe if PPP was led by someone like Aitzaz or Rabbani (who have integrity)
Only ...... have this , not others .
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Looks like People’s party try to become a political martyr has failed for the time being…
PM Gilani may quit to ease pressure on President Zardari
LONDON: The Times has disclosed, quoting a Pakistani military official, that the generals would “only step in if asked by the senior most judge in Pakistan.”
The disclosure is included in a report filed by two reporters of The Times, Francis Elliot and Aoun Sahi, who reported that “following the (corps commanders’) meeting, a military official told The Times that the generals would only step in if asked by the most senior judge in Pakistan.”
**“There is no chance of a coup in Pakistan right now. The military is not going to allow the PPP to become political martyrs,” the newspaper said. Quoting the military officer, The Times said: “We believe in democracy and the Constitution of the country and we are looking towards the Supreme Court. We will consider helping implement (the) court’s decision if civil authorities fail to implement it.”
**
These words attributed to the Pakistan Army are the first direct signal that the army generals would follow the orders of the Supreme Court of Pakistan if they were asked to help implement the judgments of the SC under Article 190.
**
The Times report also made the disclosure quoting “some observers” who predicted that Prime Minister Gilani may be considering to resign as part of a move to deflect the pressure on the president and regain the moral high ground for the government led by President Zardari’s Pakistan People’s Party (PPP).
The newspaper report said President Zardari has also asked Aitzaz Ahsan, a leading lawyer and former ally of his late wife, Benazir Bhutto, to conduct secret negotiations with the court. Aitzaz Ahsan is also being tipped as a possible replacement for Gilani.**
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
How long this establishnent will continue destroying every thing. They should define their limits, Their limits about every thing including their lust of occupying businesses .
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Kiyani meets zardari today, so is that the drop scene of this issue or is there more to it?
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
If you remember I have said much earlier that this PK allaince is now week at their home .
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Good. This is the excellent time for ppp to fire both kyani and pasha.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
The reason is simple. Both are corrupt (and I support neither) but NS (rightly or wrongly) is viewed by many in Pakistan as the lesser evil. The perception among most people (rightly or wrongly) is that despite being corrupt, NS would never sell the country or risk national security.
i.e. Zardari is not only a corrupt person but also a security risk..
We all know by now what Haqqani (under orders of PPP government) was doing and how he was threatening national security by issuing visas to US contractors (read CIA spies) like freebies (Most people in Pakistan believe that NS however bad and corrupt would never have allowed that). There is relative peace in Pakistan ever since those agents were forced to leave the country some months ago under pressure from Pakistan army (I do realise that there are other reasons besides this for the sharp decline in TTP-related attacks on our own people incl. military action and ongoing backdoor meetings/talks between military/government officials and TTP)
Maybe if PPP was led by someone like Aitzaz or Rabbani (who have integrity) the general perception about the party would be different. The fact is it is not just the army but many in Pakistan who do not trust Zardari and would like (even if they would like the PPP government and parliament to complete their term for the sake of setting a good precedent for future civilian governments) to see the back of him.
My 2 cents
(ps. are you khehkeshan by any chance!!)
No I am not and I hate the MQM. They are a fascist party. Enough said.
What do you mean Zardari is a security risk and NS is not? On whose grounds would you define a security risk? You mean the Army/ISI definition of security?
On some grounds people like Zardari are more of an asset that a security. At least he has stood up and denounced the Taliban unlike Nawaz Sharif. Zardari is risking himself considerably unlike other leaders out there. Their stance against enemies of Pakistan has been greater than any other political party in Pakistan. At least they have challenged those evil cold blooded fanatics.
What if those contractors have actually aided Pakistan and done a lot work our military and intelligence cant or refuse to do to help Pakistan?
I would say the Army is a greater security risk to Pakistan as the leader has allowed and encouraged drone attacks. They wage a battle secretly on 2 fronts - east and west and their actions are damaging Pakistan's reputation considerably.
We need to stop seeing national security through the eyes of our Generals.
True Zardari has no integrity and his Presidency has damaged the PPP a lot. I have no love for the PPP, Zadari, Bhutto's. Zardari would have been better as a behind the scenes character but his short sighted vision means he will only be President once. The PPP is our only national party which can reach to all provinces. They have support in areas which are largely ignored and cut off by the establishment.
I like the fact that the PPP is the only challenge the Army has nationally and that must NOT EVER vanish.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Everyone is a security risk here,
If he is non Punjabi , he is 100% security risk even he is puppet of establishment
Every Punjabi who is not a puppet is too a security risk .
Yeh Mulk un ki man jahez main Laaie thi aur ham sab un kay ghulam hain .
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
why should anyone have anything to say about the army? there should be nothing to say, whether good or bad, unless it has to do with some military tactics or defense issues. everyone in every country generically supports their army as a function of patriotism but in pakistan that support is much more similar to support for a political party. that should be a scary thought but for some reason is not.
Our Army is out of control and exercises far too much control over Pakistan. Had they genuine honest leaders then that would be something different. Our Army is not capable of bringing a genuine and honest leader forward nor our political parties. A certain element in Pakistan are pro-martial law. They have fallen for army propaganda about how great life under the army was. Our army uses religion and strong religious wording to legitimize themselves but most of the upper ranks are trained by Western forces that the lower ranks hate.
It would be nice to see a stable democratic system in Pakistan but we are not capable of that yet. I was glad Musharaf took power in 1999 and until 2006 there were many improvements under his martial law. By 2007 there was a collapse at every single level. However, the roots of these problems go back to 2002 or even 1999 to be honest.
He left the country in a very bad state. He put himself before the country. We are guilty of why the army have this big ego. We support them when they come into power and then dont dare criticise them its unpatriotic.
You will see here that many people throw daggers at Zardari for his mistakes yet look at those same people and see what they write about the Army for its mistakes.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
No I am not and I hate the MQM. They are a fascist party. Enough said.
What do you mean Zardari is a security risk and NS is not? On whose grounds would you define a security risk? You mean the Army/ISI definition of security?
On some grounds people like Zardari are more of an asset that a security. At least he has stood up and denounced the Taliban unlike Nawaz Sharif. Zardari is risking himself considerably unlike other leaders out there. Their stance against enemies of Pakistan has been greater than any other political party in Pakistan. At least they have challenged those evil cold blooded fanatics.
What if those contractors have actually aided Pakistan and done a lot work our military and intelligence cant or refuse to do to help Pakistan?
I would say the Army is a greater security risk to Pakistan as the leader has allowed and encouraged drone attacks. They wage a battle secretly on 2 fronts - east and west and their actions are damaging Pakistan's reputation considerably.
We need to stop seeing national security through the eyes of our Generals.
True Zardari has no integrity and his Presidency has damaged the PPP a lot. I have no love for the PPP, Zadari, Bhutto's. Zardari would have been better as a behind the scenes character but his short sighted vision means he will only be President once. The PPP is our only national party which can reach to all provinces. They have support in areas which are largely ignored and cut off by the establishment.
I like the fact that the PPP is the only challenge the Army has nationally and that must NOT EVER vanish.
Well I already gave you the example above. What Haqqani was doing was clearly against our national interests. Those agents were exceeding their domain. The timing of their leaving and sudden sharp decline in TTP-related violence can hardly be a co-incidence. Nothing-else explains it. Drones or military action alone do not explain it IMO because they have been happening for a while now
The military should never take over, every sane person shares that view
The threat from military establishment won't die overnight but civilian governments can certainly minimise that threat by becoming bandey k puttar themselves for a change. They (PPP and PML-N) have no excuse now IMO. They cannot keep blaming the establishment for their own failings while in government. Both have had several chances over the past two decades but unfortunately each government was either as bad as or (in many cases) worse than the previous government. If the elected representatives actually start doing what they are supposed to be doing and if people could see that they are better off economically during civilian rule than under military governments then there will be no popular appetite for military rule and the threat w'd subside eventually.
The last 4 years have been an absolute shambles as far as governance is concerned. This is the most incompetent and corrupt government in living memory
Lastly I believe that the elections should be held every 4 not 5 years (as it is in most countries of the world). Maybe the next parliament can do something about it. Pakistanis are impatient folk at the best of times and it is certainly my view that the opposition will exercise greater restraint (and people of Pakistan will have more patience) if they knew that the next elections were not too distant
5 years is just a very long period to have to put up with a nikemi government!
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
ISI is not Pasha Pasha has availed two extentions already . In has tenure we have seen a total failure . He was known as an honest one before this post . We don't like easy ways Let the things go normally to their end. Last two months . His tenure is no more , let him complete . Kiani, Gailani.CJ ,government all are in their last year . Let the people decide their future .
Pasha will be retiring in Mar 2013, and Kiyani in July 2013. Even Iftikhar Ch will retire in 2013! Long after the national elections!
In the next elections Zardari, Kiyani, Pasha and Iftikhar Ch all will be present (barring some extra ordinary situation)...
lets see who wins, aik zardari sub pay bhari???
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Pasha will be retiring in Mar 2013, and Kiyani in July 2013. Even Iftikhar Ch will retire in 2013! Long after the national elections!
In the next elections Zardari, Kiyani, Pasha and Iftikhar Ch all will be present (barring some extra ordinary situation)...
lets see who wins, aik zardari sub pay bhari???
Your information is not true.
Pasha can go to much long as desired by .......
but his second extension will end in next three months .
Hope he will join PTI than .
Aik hi bat hay
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
This was my source for the information, anyways it could be wrong (Maybe its a typo) as the remaining sources are saying that his service will end on mar 2012, it does not make any difference if he remains or not, as his boss will stay there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shuja_Pasha#cite_note-extension-2
He was due to reach the age of superannuation on 18 March 2010, but has received two extensions.[SUP][2]](Ahmad Shuja Pasha - Wikipedia)[/SUP] His tenure was extended by a year and then again by another two years, until 18 March 2013.[SUP][3]](Ahmad Shuja Pasha - Wikipedia)[/SUP]http://www.dawn.com/2012/01/12/ahmad-shuja-pasha.html
Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha is the current Director General of Inter-Services Intelligences (ISI). Pasha has received two extensions and is eligible to serve till 2013.%between%
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
**The timing of their leaving and sudden sharp decline in TTP-related violence can hardly be a co-incidence. Nothing-else explains it. Drones or military action alone do not explain it IMO because they have been happening for a while now
**The military should never take over, every sane person shares that view The threat from military establishment won't die overnight but civilian governments can certainly minimise that threat by becoming bandey k puttar themselves for a change. They (PPP and PML-N) have no excuse now IMO. They cannot keep blaming the establishment for their own failings while in government. Both have had several chances over the past two decades but unfortunately each government was either as bad as or (in many cases) worse than the previous government. If the elected representatives actually start doing what they are supposed to be doing and **if people could see that they are better off economically during civilian rule than under military governments then there will be no popular appetite for military rule and the threat w'd subside eventually.
The last 4 years have been an absolute shambles as far as governance is concerned. This is the most incompetent and corrupt government in living memory
**Lastly I believe that the elections should be held every 4 not 5 years (as it is in most countries of the world). Maybe the next parliament can do something about it. Pakistanis are impatient folk at the best of times and it is certainly my view that the opposition will exercise greater restraint (and people of Pakistan will have more patience) if they knew that the next elections were not too distant
5 years is just a very long period to have to put up with a nikemi government!
There is no evidence that American "diplomats" have been planting bombs. The spike in bombings happened because of Lal Masjid fiasco. The number of bomb attacks has dropped from 2009 and has lessened considerably way before the Raymond Davies types were expelled.
Do you really think no one would have followed or noted these foreigners regardless of wherever or whoever issued their visas? I have friends who work in hotels in islamabad and they say all foreigners are bugged. They may not have lived in hotels but still their presence would have been noted and followed.
The etsablishment has all the links with the Americans, swallows their aids, visit and invest in USA but then spread rumours that the USA is out to get us so the common man dont swallow any benefits of the given aid.
We have no real idea why the attacks on cities have dropped but if you use the drop in number than goes back to 2009. Arrested would be suicide bombers have never mentionned Americans. The American presence may have curtailed any potential terrorists even.
The current government inherited a country which had some very serious issues ie an angry Sindh, large portions of FATA and KP falling out of Government control, almost daily bombings....some issues which have disappeared under the current Government.
They are not the perfect government and can never be. Zardari is an opportunist and the main players in the PPP should have rebelled against his involvement in political matters. He has damaged the reputation of the party, which to be honest was not even a great party anway.