Re: DG ISI being sacked?
In the present situation with the tense situation between the army and the govt, its not possible for the government to function. I dont see the situation improving, some one will have to go now. The question is who will that be, the military or government?
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
In the present situation with the tense situation between the army and the govt, its not possible for the government to function. I dont see the situation improving, some one will have to go now. The question is who will that be, the military or government?
Do you think Kiyani or Pasha will go after such a blunt statement against PM/Civilian Govt? specially when Judiciary is on board with them? Janey waley Jahangir Karamat ki tarha khamoshi sai chaley jatey hain.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
army will not step in i feel. the change of commander 111 brigade looks like giving govt a helping hand in cutting its own leg, commit some more blunder and get more humiliated. govt is its own biggest enemy. if pm sacks pasha or kiya-nhi N$ may go to court saying this is an attempt to affect the memo case...
army may agree to have them removed for the sack of not letting ppp become shaheed again, but keep their stance on memo in tact, looks like zardari/gilani are running out of options very fast.While army and SC take well calculated steps, govt is only responding in panic. bunch of idiots ruling us in Pakistan.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
now that ISPR has openly criticized PM, I believe its almost time....
Secondly, so far only Sec Defense has been sacked. PM has full authority to sack him if he thinks that he was not performing as per rules/laws
The PM is well within his rights to sack defence secretary but he cannot fire people just because of personal likes and dislikes. He must give a valid reason for doing so. Defence Secretary is a grade 22 officer (same as COAS), not a chaprasi!!
Remember Gilani fired the interior secretary (forgetting his name) in 2009 just after the Supreme Court verdict on NRO for no good reason. His only crime was that he stopped Defence Minister Ch. Mukhtar at Islamabd airport (from leaving for China) because his (Mukhtar's) name had been placed on exit control list. The secretary was later reinstated on orders of the Supreme Court
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Do you think Kiyani or Pasha will go after such a blunt statement against PM/Civilian Govt? specially when Judiciary is on board with them? Janey waley Jahangir Karamat ki tarha khamoshi sai chaley jatey hain.
You are right, maybe they will go for some Bangladesh model kind of thing, as no one has the stomach to digest another martial law.
On a side note its funny, as Pakistan army keeps on warning the Americans not to carry out drone attacks but they continue. Similarly some people are claiming that the ISI chief had warned the government not to fire Defence Secretary and he was fired.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
What stupid statement! Gilani was also out of line accusing the military like that who have always maintained that they followed due process
Read this:
The army earlier said the defence ministry had failed to process its submissions made to a Supreme Court inquiry into a controversial unsigned memo that sought US help in curbing the power of the military.
http://www.dawn.com/2012/01/11/pm-sacks-secretary-defence.html
and this:
**The statement moreover stated that: “Any expectation that COAS will not state the facts [of the memo case] is neither constitutional nor legal. Allegiance to state and the constitution is and will always remain prime consideration for the respondent, who in this case has followed the book.”
**http://www.dawn.com/2012/01/11/pm’s-allegations-may-have-“serious-ramifications”-ispr.html
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
The PM is well within his rights to sack defence secretary but he cannot fire people just because of personal likes and dislikes. He must give a valid reason for doing so. Defence Secretary is a grade 22 officer (same as COAS), not a chaprasi!!
I m merely saying that PM has right to sack him off course with a valid reason. No one has said that he can fire Def Sec for personal likes or dislikes. PM showed his concerns earlier too about him that he is taking his orders from Army more than from civilian govt (which actually is a valid reason to sack him).
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
First of all, there is not need to call statement or person stupid. That was my point of view, you can present yours. There is not need to tow ISPR’s policy 
Secondly, there is a difference b/w Civilian/Political Govt and Govt servant. There are MANY things that political govt can do but Govt Servant cant.
and finally “Any expectation that COAS will not state the facts i neither constitutional not legal” is also wrong statement by ISPR. PM never asked CEOS to not state the truth. He said he think that COAS and DG ISI has not followed the proper way to pass their statements.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
First of all, there is not need to call statement or person stupid. That was my point of view, you can present yours. There is not need to tow ISPR's policy :)
Secondly, there is a difference b/w Civilian/Political Govt and Govt servant. **There are MANY things that political govt can do but Govt Servant cant.
**and finally "Any expectation that COAS will not state the facts i neither constitutional not legal" is also wrong statement by ISPR. PM never asked CEOS to not state the truth. He said he think that COAS and DG ISI has not followed the proper way to pass their statements.
so they are not accountable for anything and can say whatever they like regardless of facts :)
I did not call anyone stupid.. see your quoted post
Secondly I am not towing ISPR or anyone's line here but merely stating facts because I think some people are unfairly criticising them (The military is not always wrong)
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
so they are not accountable for anything and can say whatever they like regardless of facts :)
No they can be (and should be) held accountable but laws are more strict for govt servants than civilian govt. A mild statement from ISPR stating that CAOS/DG-ISI followed the constitution/law while delivering the statement (basically clearing his position) should have done it.
There was no need to threat PM of "very serious ramifications with potentially grievous consequences"
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Sheikh Rasheed could not be more right.
Gilani is being hand puppet of zardari. Its Gilani's pay back time to zardari.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Whether you like PPP or not, it is important to assert the principle of civilian control over the Army.
Next elections are a year away at the most, people can vote to say who they want.
Important to 'assert control' time was when PPP took over, when Pakistan's sovereignty was challenged, when 'ISI to come under govt control' drama happened. The 'assert control' drama this time is only because govt is now trying to show that it has balls considering verdict for memo-gate scandal, may be it borrowed some balls from rent-a-center, but very likely it is showing the drama knowing that if army kicks govt out then PPP becomes 'democracy shaheed again' and if army doesn't kick out then PPP will claim victory.
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
No they can be (and should be) held accountable but laws are more strict for govt servants than civilian govt. A mild statement from ISPR stating that CAOS/DG-ISI followed the constitution/law while delivering the statement (basically clearing his position) should have done it.
There was no need to threat PM of "very serious ramifications with potentially grievous consequences"
Cool. agree with the last line
In short if the defence ministry is so nalaiq that they did not properly process the submissions of the COAS and DG ISI on Memo, then we should not be blaming the military here. There is no evidence that the COAS directly approached the Supreme Court or tried to influence their decision or failed to follow due process
One other point ... why only defence secretary? what about defence minister Ch. Mukhtar? Why is he exempt from blame here? He should be the first one to resign over such incompetence ... but alas this is Pakistan!
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
As if it was functioning earlier 
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Cool
In short if the defence ministry is so nalaiq that they did not properly process the submissions of the COAS and DG ISI on Memo, then we should not be blaming the military here. There is no evidence that the COAS directly approached the Supreme Court or tried to influence their decision or failed to follow due process
One other point ... why only defence secretary? what about defence minister Ch. Mukhtar? Why is he exempt from blame here? He should be the first one to resign not the defence secretary ... but alas this is Pakistan!
Constitutional chain of command should be
CAOS/Army ----> Defense Sec ----> Defense Minister (who can or can not consult with PM and approve the summary) ----> Judiciary
What actually happened here was
CAOS/Army ----> Defense Sec ----> Judiciary
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Mubarkaan 
PM Is Zardari’s Puppet
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Pasha must go. He has been part of too many dirty schemes
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
So is the government 
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
Army chief asked me before issuing the statement yesterday - PM :smack:
Re: DG ISI being sacked?
^ poori qaum ko chay samajh rakha hai pm saab ne 