Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

Mr.Popat

What you have just done … It’s called “styling it out” …:hoonh:

If you knew what your own tafsir said, then you would have talked from that basis all along … But instead now you have found out you said that you were “debating from my point of view” …

:hehe:

If so then you would have agreed with me …

It seems you still have not understood your own tafsir … It says he … Adam (AS) was BORN in Mesopotamia … Not in heaven at all … And that there were many people around at the time when he (AS) was deceived by the Satan … who was an evil man …who was not previously known as Iblis …

Look it is quite clear that you consider the Quran your holy Book … But I have to put my hands up and state your belief system and our belief system is further apart than I previously thought. In fact I feel ashamed for debating with you because it only made it seem I was giving you importance … This thread for me is done inshaAllah … may be we can talk again on other matters … SubhanAllah!

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

Popat Please do me a favour, with your hand on your heart answer this question.

Do Ahmadis consider utterances of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as hadith – after all you consider him as a Prophet?

It could be that all time that you have been claiming the acceptance of all hadith, could include utterances of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad!!!

Whereas we would thinking of hadith uttered by the noble Prophet (saw) :frowning: :smack:

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

what the translator put in brackets should remain in brackets

164

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

:slight_smile:

I know what my beliefs are. You dont have to tell me what it is. Like i said earlier, tafsir in alislam further strengthens the belief of nobody living outside of Earth. If i were to bring adam a.s topic in between, i was afraid you would just shift your attention to where i did not want you to go in the first place. You cannot use that tafsir in your favor in any way possible.

What our differences are and what are not is not a topic of discussion here at all. My question has all along in this thread been very few, to which you apply your own reasoning and eventually call the event of ascension a miracle whereas, Qur’an have verses which means no one can go to outside of Earth and still be living. 1) Muhammad PBUH said holy is God. I’m a human being and a messenger. 2) verse 6:35, to mean theres not a way you can put ladder to get to heaven. 3) ‘therein shall you live and therein shall you die’, referring to 7:25.

I further asked you to clear my misunderstanding if you think i’m wrong in translating and explaining 5:75 and 3:144. I’m yet to get some response on how i explained the verses. Please do look into it.

Other than that, just keep in mind that these were few of many other verses I could bring in response to your belief of ascension. I did see you struggling enough in just 2/3 verses of quran.. I wonder what other stuff would you really be able to come up with to defend your belief. Remember.. its your belief vs. Quran. You must prove your belief from Quran.

You are not to tweak meaning of what Quranic verses tells you according to your belief, but rather change your belief according to Quran.

Have a nice day.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

Irrelevant.

Hadith are words of the holiest prophet, khataman nabiyeen, and the most exalted prophet Muhammad Mustafa s.a.w.

This is how much far away you have been in your religion that you question the ahadith provided to you and think if they were actually said by him or not, or whether they can be found in ahadith books.

Will you call words said by Jesus a.s as hadith ? Really ? After His death, will you be referring to Ahadith books or books in which Jesus a.s’s words were saved? Use common sense please.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Lets even take out brackets too. Lets see the translation and explain me what it means. Can you or can you not put a ladder to heaven ? (6:35).

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Are these not the words uttered by your prophet?
*
“The Holy Prophet (SAW) had two advents. In other words, you may say that one mission was in the reflection form. It was promised that the Holy Prophet (SAW) would be sent to the world once again and this was fulfilled by the advent of the Promised Messiah and the Promised Mehdi (i.e. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad).” *(Roohani Khazain, Toufah-Golravea - Volume 17 - Page 249)
**

If you deny, then someone will post the scanned pages of the book for your benefit.

There's nothing much to add - See you some other place/time.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

?

Your question was if we consider them hadith ? Answer was no.

Question to you was : would you consider saying of Jesus a.s as ahadith. No answer to that.

Used common sense? no.

How is that even relevant to what I'm asking? I expect an answer to my response in which i explained the verses of Muhammad PBUH and Isa a.s and prophets before him dying. Also, you brought tafsir of quran from alislam, and fail to explain why you would use isa a.s's case as an 'exceptional case', when you quoted that in general, no human being can live outside Earth. If no human can, Jesus cant either. You are creating exception, not the tafsir. but hey, if you dont want to answer..thats fine..

See you around posting.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Popat

We have discussed all that there was to be discussed and we seem to be going into unending circle.

You claim that you believe that Allah (swt) is Omnipotent and can do whatever He wishes. (I believe you are sincere when you say so.)

But then in the same breath you say Allah (swt) can’t take a human out of the sphere of the Earth and you quote an ayah which talks in general terms – You can’t even think of exceptional case - and you are worried about how Allah (swt) will provide food and oxygen for that human.

You claim to believe in Divine miracles but then deny when one is presented to you. In fact you are limiting Allah’s ability to do what He wishes.

Ahmadiyat religion has a dilemma – The crux of it existence depends on Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) being dead.

Alive Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) whether in Heavens or anywhere else is anathema to Ahmadiyat religion – a death blow.

Dead Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) serves Ahmadiyat religion well, with him out of the way a vacancy is created for someone else to sneak in and claim the vacant post. Once in the vacant post one can promote himself to prophet hood too!

So this is your dilemma, intrinsically/fundamentally you cannot accept that Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) is alive.

Once you do that Ahmadiyat collapses. So we have come to the end, you have said all that you could have said and we likewise did the same. I don’t think there is anything more to add.

To you be your Way, and to we to ours.

Popat - you must know that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed takes himself to be re-incarnation of Prophet Muhammad (saw) – and he receives Wahi from Allah - Allah Forbid!

"I say with swearing upon God that I believe in these inspirations in the same way as I believe in Quran and other books of God. And just as I consider Quran undoubtedly and surely the book of God, similarly I believe that that Wahi (revelation) which descends upon me is the word of God."*(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Roohany Khazaen, Vol .22, P .220)
*

"I have told so many times that according to the verse "Wa Akhareen Menhom "(Along with others of them...) - in the incarnate form, I am the same last of the Prophets. Twenty two years ago, God named me in Braheen-e-Ahmadia Muhammad and Ahmad and declared that I am the entity of the Holy Prophet (saw).”(*Ek-Ghalati-Ka-Izala, Roohany Khazaen Vol. 18, P. 212; *

"And Know that just as our Holy Prophet (saw) was sent in the fifth thousand (the 6th century A.D.), in the same manner he was sent in the sixth thousand (the 13th century A.D.) in the incarnation of the Promised Messiah (Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)."Page 4 of 17(Khutba-e-Ilhamiah, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 16, P. 270; Khutba-e-Ilhamiah, P.180, 1st Edition, Qadian, 1902

"When I am the holy Prophet incarnate and when all the accomplishments of Muhammad along with his prophethood are reflected, by the incarnate manner, on the mirror of my shadiness, then where that is man who had claimed to be a prophet in a separate capacity?"*( Ek-Ghalati-Ka-Izala, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 18, P. 212; Ek-Ghalati-Ka- Izala, P. 8/10)
*

"And Allah sent down upon me the bounty of the holy Prophet and made it perfect; and he drew towards me the kindness and generosity of the merciful Prophet, so that I became one with him. Thus, he who joins my group joins the group of the companions (Sahaba) of my Leader, the best of messengers. It is not hidden from those who have the ability to think that this is what the words “Akhareen Menhom" (others of them) mean. The person who makes a difference between me and the Mustafa has neither seen me nor recognized me. "(Khutba-e-Ilhamiah, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 16, P. 258-259; Khutba-e- Ilhamiah
, P. 171)

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Peace,
Ok, so i see how it is :). Just for the sake of being against Ahmadiyya jamaat, you are choosing not to believe in something on purpose. I have said it countless times earlier and i will say this again.. you do not have to become an ahmadi once you accept the death of Jesus A.S. Alhamdulillah, we have proof enough, enough that if I give you one verse at a time, I cannot even go on and give you another verse, since even 1 verse of Quran is more than enough. But alhamdulillah, truth has been shown to us from various verses of Quran, that a person who is sincere in accepting truth always benefits. There have been many scholars even before Hz Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) who have proved Jesus a.s dead..many books published by them in which they openly claimed that they believe Jesus a.s to be dead. Scholars of today like Javed Ahmad Ghamdi have claimed that hes a believer of Jesus a.s's death as well.. and yet hes not an Ahmadi.

Do not, just for the enmity against Ahmadiyyat, be one of those who close their eyes when truth is in front of you. You cannot harm Ahmadiyyat, neither can you hide truth. You can and will only harm yourself, if your conscious is alive. Don't accept ahmadiyyat, but accept what Quran is telling you. This is something i do not demand from you, but Allah himself expect you to accept as a Muslim.

[QUOTE]
To you be your Way, and to we to ours.

Popat - you must know that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed takes himself to be re-incarnation of Prophet Muhammad (saw) – and he receives Wahi from Allah - Allah Forbid!

"I say with swearing upon God that I believe in these inspirations in the same way as I believe in Quran and other books of God. And just as I consider Quran undoubtedly and surely the book of God, similarly I believe that that Wahi (revelation) which descends upon me is the word of God."*(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Roohany Khazaen, Vol .22, P .220)
*

"I have told so many times that according to the verse "Wa Akhareen Menhom "(Along with others of them...) - in the incarnate form, I am the same last of the Prophets. Twenty two years ago, God named me in Braheen-e-Ahmadia Muhammad and Ahmad and declared that I am the entity of the Holy Prophet (saw).”(*Ek-Ghalati-Ka-Izala, Roohany Khazaen Vol. 18, P. 212; *

"And Know that just as our Holy Prophet (saw) was sent in the fifth thousand (the 6th century A.D.), in the same manner he was sent in the sixth thousand (the 13th century A.D.) in the incarnation of the Promised Messiah (Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)."Page 4 of 17(Khutba-e-Ilhamiah, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 16, P. 270; Khutba-e-Ilhamiah, P.180, 1st Edition, Qadian, 1902

"When I am the holy Prophet incarnate and when all the accomplishments of Muhammad along with his prophethood are reflected, by the incarnate manner, on the mirror of my shadiness, then where that is man who had claimed to be a prophet in a separate capacity?"*( Ek-Ghalati-Ka-Izala, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 18, P. 212; Ek-Ghalati-Ka- Izala, P. 8/10)
*

"And Allah sent down upon me the bounty of the holy Prophet and made it perfect; and he drew towards me the kindness and generosity of the merciful Prophet, so that I became one with him. Thus, he who joins my group joins the group of the companions (Sahaba) of my Leader, the best of messengers. It is not hidden from those who have the ability to think that this is what the words “Akhareen Menhom" (others of them) mean. The person who makes a difference between me and the Mustafa has neither seen me nor recognized me. "(Khutba-e-Ilhamiah, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 16, P. 258-259; Khutba-e- Ilhamiah
, P. 171)
[/QUOTE]

You're beating the bushes here and there. You knowingly try to change the topic, when there was no need of it anyway.

But regardless, I will give you this example.. if you understand :) Read it very carefully.

If you are a CEO of a company, you will only ask your HR dept to find a suitable candidate for some position IF you have the vacancy available to fill the spot. Only then will you interview people to find a suitable candidate for that position. If you do not have any position available to be filled, then it does not matter what qualification anyone comes up with. There is NO job for him.

Apply the same scenario to what we're doing here. Let's assume that Islam is a company (again, I said 'assume'), and you are a CEO of that company (Muslims in general). You first need to figure out if there in fact is any vacancy available for anyone ( if anyone can come ).. only then will you question/interview a person who claims he is suitable for that position. There is NO reason why you would quote what He says if there is no spot available for that position. Now, for you, you need to have 2 beliefs of yours figured out. 1) Issue of Jesus a.s 2) finality of prophethood. If you say Jesus a.s will come and only He a.s will come, then it does NOT matter to you or to any Muslim what Hz Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) claimed.. since like the example, there is no vacancy, hence no matter how qualified (pious etc) you are, you cannot get in.

If you say last prophet was Muhammad pbuh, then you need to understand Jesus a.s after coming will be last.. but even then, if you dont need to question was Hz Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) said, since it is of NO concern to you.. since you ARE waiting for Jesus a.s

So, the whole question goes back to these 2 topics again. What Hz Ahmad (as) said and he (as) did not say is of no interest to you and it shouldnt be. Since he is not of any Hujjat to you. He (as) is hujjat to me. For us, since we believe in Him as prophet, what He said is a hujjat on us. We do not question what He (as) say. We can explain them to you what it means but as Muslims, we are not to question prophets.

So, lets just get one thing clear, which is the issue of Jesus a.s and then we can talk about something else. Accept that He a.s is dead. Then i'll show you how the prophecies of Messiah came to fulfillment in the personality of Hz Ahmad (as).. if not, then we're still stuck at Jesus a.s's issue. You claiming he's alive.. me giving you evidence that he's dead. Hope the whole example above was of help.

PS: sorry for the late reply as we had annual convention of Canada happening since last 3 days. What a blessed convention alhamdulillah.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Alhumdulillah we are people of majority ... And not from a people who justify their leader's prophethood by minority opinions of our scholars who are not even from the traditions.

Can the other camp provide even 1 Hadith that acceptance of Masih/Mahdi will be like drawing blood from a rock?

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

mgaq wrote that belief in Isa AS still being alive is a mushrik belief, also he admitted that he held that belief previously (for a period of 50+ years aprox.) muslims have pointed out that Allah SWT has excluded mushriks from prophethood

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Popat – I just managed to get some time so I am going to address all the issues raised by you.

I have nothing against Ahmadiyya jamaat – They can believe anything they want :) . Yes I am choosing on PURPOSE not to believe in Ahmadiyyat – The purpose is my Salvation in hereafter – So I choose not to follow blindly your ‘Pied Piper’ into self destruction.

Why should I go against the Quran and ahadith as it is the believe Muslims that Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum is alive?

All of the time you are interpreting the verses to meet your sect’s needs even though it doesn’t meet the following the following criteria

1) Interpretation should not clash with other verses of the Quran. The Quran indicates very clearly that it does its own explanation (tafsir) which is very clear and easy to understand. As the few ayahs clearly indicate.

*"And We have revealed the Book to you which has clear explanation of everything, and a guidance, mercy and good news for those who submit." (Qur'an 16:89)

“Shall I then seek a Judge other than Allah? When it is He Who has revealed to you the Book fully detailed?” (Qur'an 6:114)

“The words of your Lord are complete in its truth and justice. Nothing can change His words – He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing. If you obeyed most of those on earth, they would lead you away from the path of Allah. They follow nothing but speculation – they are merely guessing.” (Qur’an 6:115-116)

We have explained (things) in various (ways) in the Qur'an, in order that they may receive admonition, but it only increases their flight from the truth. (17:41)

And We have explained to mankind, in this Qur'an, every kind of similitude, yet the greater part of mankind refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude ...](17:89)

And verily We have coined for mankind in this Qur'an all kinds of similitude, that perhaps they might reflect ...](39:27)

We have explained in detail in this Qur'an, for the benefit of mankind, every kind of similitude, but man is in most things contentious. (18:54)

2) Secondly one should understand the Quran as the Prophet (saw) explained it. (No pseudo-intellectual speculations or misinterpreting the verses allowed)*

The Qur’an makes it abundantly clear that the function of the Messenger is not merely that of a deliveryman who simply delivers the revelation from Allah to us. Rather, he has been entrusted with the most important task of explaining and illustrating the same. This is a point mentioned in a number of verses in the Qur’an:

*And We have revealed unto thee the Remembrance that thou may explain to mankind that which had been revealed for them, and that haply they may reflect.

And We have revealed the Scripture unto thee only that thou may explain unto them that wherein they differ, and (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.*

Therefore, Hadith explains, clarifies, and removes ambiguities about the Qur’an. Hence, once we reject the Hadith, we may never be able to figure out the whole meaning of the Qur’an.

3) Thirdly we use the Ijma As-Sahabah to understand any verse.

The onus is on you to prove that Ijimah As-Sahabah is in your favour – You will never find even an iota in your favour.

4) Fourthly, Qiyas and Ijtihad: Here nothing is in favour for your beliefs.

Misinterpretation of Quranic ayahs, twisting the ahadith, attributing incorrect narrations to the Companions (may Allah be pleased with them all) and using pseudo rationality and bogus logic doesn’t work in Islam.

Islam is faith of purity and righteousness; so it cannot be polluted with falsehood.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

Prophet Muhammad’s role as a Warner

You must understand that Prophet (saw) not only delivered the Message of Allah (Islam) but it was a Warner to mankind of consequences of not following Message that he had delivered.

I am quoting a few ayahs to the effect:

*“We have not sent thee (O Muhammad) except as a universal (Messenger) to men giving them glad tidings and warning them (against sin) but most men understand not.” (The Noble Qur’an 34:28)

“Verily, We have sent you (O Muhammad) as a Witness, as a bearer of glad tidings and as a Warner. In order that you (O mankind) may believe in Allah and His Messenger and honour him and that you glorify (Allah’s) Praises morning and afternoon.” (The Noble Qur’an 48:8-9)

Say: I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain Warner.Quran 46:9

Surely We have sent you (Muhammad) as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a Warner, so that you (the people) may believe in Allah and His Messenger and may aid him and revere him; and (that) you may declare His (Allah’s) glory, morning and evening. Quran 48:8 – 9

Say: I do not control any benefit or harm for my own soul except as Allah please; and had I known the unseen I would have had much of good and no evil would have touched me; I am nothing but a Warner and the giver of good news to a people who believe. Quran 7:188
*

Keeping the above in mind the Noble Prophet (saw) warned his Ummah to be aware of false prophets. I am quoting just a few of the narrations of the Noble Prophet (saw) below:

*I am Muhammad, I am Ahmad, I am the effacer and infidelity shall be erased through me; I am the assembler. People shall be assembled on Doomsday after my time. And I am the last in the sense that no prophet shall succeed me. (Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi, Muatta’)

If ever there arose a person from among my people who would hold communion with God, it would be none else but 'Umar bin Khattab. (Bukhari , Muslim, Tirmidhi)

We are the last (ummah) but will proceed all on the Day of Resurrection except that the Book was given to them before us. (Bukhari, Muslim)

The tribe of Israel was guided by prophets. When a prophet passed away, another prophet succeeded him. But no prophet will come after me; only caliphs will succeed me. (Bukhari)

I am the last in line of the prophets of God and my Masjid is the last Masjid. (Muslim)

The chain of Messengers and Prophets has come to an end. There shall be neither Messenger nor Prophet after me. (Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad, Anas bin Malik)

There will arise thirty impostors in my Ummah and each one of them will pronounce to the world that he is a prophet, but I am the last in the line of the Prophets of God and no Prophet will come after me. (Abu Dawood, Tirmizi)

No Prophet will come after me and there will, therefore, be no other community of followers of any new Prophet. (Baihaqi, Tabarani)

God Almighty hath sent unto the world no apostle who did not warn his people about the appearance of Dajjal (Anti-Christ, but Dajjal did not appear in their time). I am the last in the line of Prophets and you are the last community of believers. Without doubt, then, Dajjal shall appear from amongst you. (Ibn Majah)

I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. There will be no prophet after me. (Musnad Ahmad)*

The Noble Prophet (saw) did not forget to warn his Ummah of dangers of following False prophets even at the time of the Last Farewell Sermon delivered on Mount Arafat.

The Last Farewell Sermon

Remember, one day you will appear before Allah and answer your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

People, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and my example, the Sunnah (Hadith), and if you follow these you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed your message to your people."

Complete Sermon can be read here:

IslamiCity.com - Mosque - The Prophet Muhammad’s (PBUH) Last Sermon

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

These scholars can be counted on one hand. Just a drop in the ocean. It would have been interesting if you had posted stance of Javed Ahmad Ghamdi regarding Ahmadiyyat and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

Trust me, I feel the same, it is beyond me to understand how you could blindly follow this man who in full of contradictions and a false prophet. But it is Allah (swt) who turns the hearts to the Truth.

I don’t need to change the topic and will not. What I quoted is from your esteemed books, penned none other than your hero.
See how is keeping himself on par with the Noble Prophet (saw)!!!!

In fact he had the audacity/nerve to claim that he is really Prophet Muhammad in the second coming!!!

Yes, you got it right! Muslims believe in finality of Prophet hood and that Isa Ibn Maryum (as) will come as Allah (swt) has WILLED it. No vacancy for any imposters.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s claim is important for me as I must be aware of false prophets and it is my duty like upon any other Muslim to make people aware of this fitnah.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Popat either you are confused or playing with words.

Facts are as follows:

Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) has been appointed as a messenger by Allah (swt) and was sent specifically to the Israelites. (Bani Israel).

That was his mission till Allah(swt) raised him to Himself.

Allah (swt) did not cancel Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum’s (as) Status as messenger of Allah just as He not done with previous messengers (asa).

Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) will be sent back as an Islamic leader and not as a messenger by Allah when He wills it.

There are hundreds of authentic hadith about the second coming of Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as).

All the Companions of the Messenger of Allah (swt) (May Allah be pleased with them all – Hz. Ayeisha(ra) is included here) were aware of the facts of the second coming of Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as).

The following narration is attributed to – Hz. Ayeisha(ra):

"Say he is 'seal of prophets' but do NOT say 'there is no prophet after him'

The above statement clearly states that she is advising and reminding the people that though Hz. Muhammad (saw) is the last Messenger of Allah Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) who is a messenger will be coming in the end of times.

They were also well aware that this time around he will be coming as an Islamic leader and not as messenger.

And nowhere in the ahadith literature will Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) ever claim that his status is that of a messenger.

Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) will follow the Shariah and Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (saw) – adding nothing to it nor substracting anything from it.

Compare this to the claims of Mr. Ghulam Ahamd:
1) He claimed to be mujadid
2) He Claimed to the Mahdi
3) He claimed to be Jesus (as)
4) He Claimed to be a Prophet
5) He claimed to be Prophet Muhammad
6) He Claimed to receive Wahi – This is direct Words of Allah (swt) thus making revelations to him on par with the Quran

Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) will not make above claims apart from No. 3 (Obviously)

There you said it – You Believe Mr Ghulam Ahmad to be a Prophet – And He did claim to be so – And he did add and subtract from what Prophet Muhammad (saw) had brought!!

We, Muslims will question, challenge and oppose any imposter to the claim of prophet hood.

Sorry, it’s other way around – We have given you evidence from Quran and a lot of supporting ahadith to prove without a shadow of doubt that Hz. Jesus (as) is Alive and in a secure place where Allah (swt) has chosen for him.

You stance is against that what held by Muslims. It’s the Ahmadiyya jamaat that is ignoring the Quran and all the ahadith literature wherein there is irrefutable evidence of Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) is alive and that second coming will be when Allah (swt) Wills it.

The people divided themselves into sects; each happy with what they have.' (AI-Muminoon 23.53)

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

Do you see the contradictions here – You are just posing here as a rationalist and as if you free to question anything and everything but in reality you all are just blind followers – Just like the kids following the Famous Pied Piper.

I don’t know how you can claim the above – that you and Jammat are “following the entire ahadith and Sunnah of the Noble Prophet (saw)” because your hero’s stance is against you.
**
And see for yourself what Mr Ghulam Ahmad says:**

“The basis for our claims is not Hadith but Quran and that Wahi which comes to me. Yes, in support we also present those Hadith which are according to Quran and DO NOT CONTRADICT MY WAHI. Rest of the Hadith, I THROW THEM AWAY LIKE A WASTE PAPER.” (Roohani Khazain vol.19 p.140)

His main Criteria is that AHADITH SHOULD NOT CONTRADICT HIS WAHI!!!

So his Wahi takes precedence over the sayings of the Blessed Messenger of Allah (saw)!!!

And he has the audacity to throw authentic ahadith in waste basket so justify his false claims!!!

This clearly shows his respect for the Noble Prophet (saw)!!!

So your claim that your Jamaats beliefs based on entire Quran, entire ahadith and sunnah is false and baseless.
**

You raised the question many times about “How Hz. Isa Maryum (as) eats when he is Heaven?”**

Read the ayah 19 of Surah Al-Araf – Where Allah (swt) states

Waya adamu oskun anta wazawjuka aljannata fakula min haythu ****uma wala taqraba hathihi alshshajarata fatakoona mina alththalimeena Surah 7. Al-A’raf, Ayah 19

Aljannata = Heaven (Garden)
Fakula = So eat

And [as for thee], O Adam, dwell thou and thy wife in this garden, and eat, both of you, whatever you may wish; but do not approach this one tree, lest you become evildoers!" Surah 7. Al-A’raf, Ayah 19

Translation from Ahmadi source Sher Ali

‘And O Adam, dwell thou and thy wife in the garden and eat therefrom wherever you will, but approach not this tree lest you be among the wrongdoers.’ [7:20]

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

If Hz. Adam (as) and Lady Hawwa (ra) where eating in heaven – So Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) doing the same.

Of course they must be breathing Oxygen too.

Believe me, Hz. Adam (as) and Lady Hawwa (ra) were not roaming around in Mesopotamia :slight_smile:

I think nothing more can be said here.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Peace Brother,

can you please clarify where last and the name of Isa (as) is mentioned? Thank You :)

180

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

I saw “believers” prostrating before him.