Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

For a christian its a very loud** Yes**

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Oh so you are a Christian...

I would like to know the answer from a Muslim though.

Prophet Muhammad is a messenger and messengers before him passed away. So If you are claiming that there are some who did not pass away, they certainly must be more than just a messenger, according to Surah Al Imran Verse 144. What cha say?

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Peace Zapatista

I really would like to know where you people learn how to construct your arguments - very impressive to say the least - this - what you have done is sophistical ...

With a bit of patient deconstruction we'll get to the answer of your question ... inshaAllah

**But let's look at that verse again in Arabic:

**Wa Ma Muhammadun Illa Rasoolun qad khalat min qablihi-Rusulu ... Afaee(n)mmaata aw qutila ...

**Word by word ...

**And is not Muhammad Except a Prophet passed on from before him prophets, so if he was to die or be killed ...

**Sensible Rendition

**And Muhammad (SAW) is not but a Prophet, before him Prophets have passed on, so if he was to die or be killed ...

Notice here how the statement here is saying:

Being a prophet does not save you from death or being killed

If however a prophet does not die or is not killed - it does not say or affirm that such a person is necessarily more than a prophet either.

So you ask .... if a prophet comes before Muhammad (SAW) who did not pass away is he more than a prophet?

Answer .... no ...

Logically - The Class of Prophets contains sub-classes (those who have died, those who have been killed, those who are alive), The class of prophets further fits into the class of all created life forms (nafs) ...

We conclude:

Every prophet will die
Not every prophet is dead at the moment
Some prophets have died naturally
Some have been killed

If Muhammad (SAW) is killed or dies - it does not remove him from the class of prophets - (so there is no reason to lose faith)

The sub-class of Created Nafs is the class of 1 member (Ever Living - Allah (SWT)) ... so neither the twain shall meet and hence we cannot conclude or even as assume that all of the sub-classes of "Created Nafs" are more special than a "Created Nafs" - i.e. all nafs shall eventually taste death.

We have to use another verse to qualify the prophets who are alive - we cannot use our fallacious logic - like you have done.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Learn Arabic - Learn Logic

:) - I remind myself too

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Yeah, a Prophet, who is a human being, floating around in heavens for 2000 years so that he can come back to the earth some day (Not as a Prophet) and kill all pigs and destoy all crosses, kill a giant Cyclope who rides a giant donkey, all ofcourse in it's literal meaning. Very Logical.

For me the verse is saying exactly what I wrote in my post before. Muhammad (PBUH) is just a Prophet, (a mortal being) and he will pass away as did the Prophet's (who just like him were mortal) before him. You can make things more complicated and believe in whatever you want to believe in. Logic and reason are on my side.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

Peace Zapatista

So answer in logical language how I am wrong … Not in this emotional way … Check up syllogisms on wiki

You have argued on the basis of this fallacy

Affirmative conclusion from a negative premise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

Peace kchughtai,

“un” and “ul” both means “all”? :konfused: I never know that. Hence the translation which is more suitable is 'sustainer of the peoples, sustainer of the worlds

Peace kchughtai,

I never read that Hazrat Umar r.a. claimed that he will come back and take care of the ‘munafiqeen’. In fact i read and heard that Hazrat Umar r.a. said 'if anyone said Prophet Muhammad :saw2: passed away I’ll take off his neck".

Sometime the way of presenting (usage of words) change the whole passage.

The verse primarily applies to the battle of Uhad, in the course of which a cry was raised that the Prophet :saw2: was slain. He :saw2: had indeed been severely wounded, but Hazrat Talha, Hazrat Abu Bakar and Hazrat Ali r.a. were at his side, and his own unexampled bravery saved the Muslim army from a rout. This verse was recalled again by Hazrat Abu Bakar r.a. when the Prophet :saw2: actually died a natural death eight years later, to remind people that Almighty Allah, Whose Message He :saw2: brought, lives for ever and we have need to remember this now and often for two reasons:

**1- **When we feel inclined to pay more than human honour to one who was the truest, the purest, and the greatest of men, and thus in a sense to compound for our forgetting the spirit of his teaching and

**2- **When we feel depressed at the chances and changes of time, and forget that the eternal Almighty Allah lives and watches over us and over all His creatures row as in all history in the past and in the future.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Ijmah means agreement in its simplest meaning. The fact that we find no objection from any sahaba r.a in any of the history book, or any of the ahadith book that they said If Jesus a.s can be alive, so can Muhammad PBUH. Why did everyone at that point forgot that jesus a.s was still alive.. infact, no one has said sucha thing like that ever. I'm telling you what they believed at the times of Muhammad pbuh. What you believe now is certainly not a belief that sahabah had.

Yes, I used 'we' to mean Ahmadi Muslims. We make our beliefs based on entire Quran, entire ahadith and sunnah.

Jamaat believes in miracles. But why enforce something as a miracle when such a miracle is not approved by Quran?.. What kind of argument is this that if such and such can happen, so can this ? Such and such happened cuz its in Quran.. this cannot happen because it goes against Quran. You can name it whatever, but please try not to go against Quran..

You want me to take Jesus a.s living outside of Earth and take it as miracle and ignore the verse where allah says 'therein shall you live' ? I'm still waiting for you to make exception in this verse and tell me what you come up with. I've heard psyah a lot at this time... here are 2/3 possible exceptions he came up with.. tell me if you need to add something else.. so ill just write one reply covering everything.

1) people do live outside of Earth. A person who lived in space for 2.2 years was an example given by psyah.
2) people do die in space too.

3) Exception is inherent in the verse>> in which case you need to come up with exceptions..
4) verse is only limited to 4 individuals.
5) 55:33 was given as a verse which disprove my understanding of 7:25.

umm, anything else you'd like to add ? i've replied to all this earlier, but i'll reply to each one point again in another reply. Let me know if there's anything else i'm missing. Thanks.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

You are wrong here again – Nobody claimed that Sahabah (May Allah be pleased with them all) could have said that if Jesus (as) can be alive, so can Muhammad (saw).

At the death of Prophet Muhammad (saw) All the Quran had been revealed and the Noble Prophet (saw) had uttered all the hadith. Everything was complete – from then on nothing could be added to Islam and nothing taken out.

The Companoins (May Allah be pleased with them all) were at this point well informed about special status and position of Jesus (as) – They were well aware that Jesus had not died and been taken up by Allah (swt) (this is in Quran) and will come back again in the end of times.(This is from Hadith)

And that they had just witnessed the death of Prophet Muhammad (saw) and were aware the Jesus (as)not died so the following reaction from Hz. Umar bin Al Khattab (ra).

  • ‘Umar, who was so stunned that he almost lost consciousness and stood before people addressing them: "Some of the hypocrites claim that the Messenger of Allâh sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam died. The Messenger of Allâh did not die, but went to his Lord in the same way as Moses bin ‘Imran did. He stayed away for forty nights, but finally came back though they said he had been dead. By Allah, the Messenger of Allâh will come back and he will cut of the hands and legs of those who claim his death*." [Ibn Hisham, 2/655]

You can see that Hz. Umar bin Al Khattab (ra) mentioned the Prophet one before Jesus (as).

Hz. Umar bin Al Khattab (ra) knew that Prophet (saw) and Hz. Musa (as) had tasted death whereas Jesus (as) HAD NOT died and that Allah (swt) had taken him up.

So it is your Jamaat’s beliefs that are indirect conflict with the Beliefs of Sahabah (May Allah be pleased with them all)

That’s a very good news – so you said that “We Jamaat Ahmadiyah make our beliefs based on entire Quran, entire ahadith and sunnah.

Since you and your Jammat believe in entire hadith (your words) the following few won’t be problem for you.

*By Him Whose Hand is my life, the son of Mary (Jesus) will certainly invoke the name of God for Hajj or for Umrah, or for both, in the valley of Rawha. (Sahih Muslim)

"It [the Day of Judgment] will not come until you see ten signs," and [in this connection] he mentioned the smoke, the Dajjal, the Beast, the rising of the Sun from the west, the descent of Jesus son of Mary… (Sahih Muslim)

By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, son of Mary [Jesus] will shortly descend amongst you people as a just ruler. (Sahih al-Bukhari)

Jesus son of Mary would then descend and their [Muslims'] commander will invite him to come and lead them in prayer, but he would say: No, some amongst you are commanders over some [amongst you]. This is the honor from God for this Ummah [nation]. (Sahih Muslim)
How will you be when the some of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you and he will judge people by the Law of the Qur'an? (Sahih al-Bukhari)

The night will be dark (Muslim)

People will be getting ready for war (Muslim)

In the dark of the morning they will hear someone saying your helper has come. People will be surprised. It is the voice of someone properly fed. (Ahmed)

Prophet Isa (Jesus) (a.s) will descend at the time of Fajr prayer. (Muslim)

His both hands (and arms) will be on two angels shoulders. (Muslim)

He would look like Urwa Masood (r.a) the Companion. (Muslim)

Height medium. Colour red and white. (Ahmed, Abu Dawood)

His hair hanging down his shoulders, straight, clean and shining as if after a bath. (Abu Dawood, Bukhari, Ahmed)

When he bends his head water will (or appear to) twinkle like pearls. (Muslim)

There will be an armour and (Muammar)

Two light yellow clothes on the body. (Muslim, Abu Dawood, Ahmed)

Jesus (a.s.) will descend on eastern white minaret of the Damascus grand Mosque or in Baitul Muqqadas near Imam Mahdi. (Muslim, Tibrani)

At that time Imam Mahdi would have moved forward to lead the Fajr prayer. (Ibne Majah)

Iqamah of the Salah (prayer) would have been said (Muslim)

Imam Mahdi will invite Jesus (a.s.) for leading the prayer but he will turn down the offer and say... (Muslim, Hakim, Ahmed)

This is an honour of this Ummah (Nation) that some would be leader (Imam) over some. (Muslim, Ahmed)

When Imam Mahdi will go back, Jesus (a.s.) will put his hand on his back saying him to lead the prayer. (Ibn Majah, Ahmed, Hakim)

Because the Iqamah has been recited for you (Ibn Majah)

Imam Mahdi will lead the prayer that time then. (Bukhari, Muslim)*

Please with your right hand on your heart confirm that you agree with few ahadith I have quoted above.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

Look who’s talking about going against the Quran :blush:

Eerr, Yes you forget to answer this – please define a divine miracle!

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

[QUOTE]
"Abdullah Bin Abbas narrated that Abu Bakr came out while Umar was conversing with the people. He said to Umar to sit but he refused to comply with. So, the people turned towards him (Abu Bakr) and left Umar. Then Abu Bakr said: Whoever amongst you worshipped Muhammad, let him know that Muhammad is dead, and whoever amongst you worshipped Allah, let him know that Allah is Living, there is no death for Him. Allah has said, `And Muhammad is only a Messenger. Verily, Messengers have passed away before him...' The narrator says, by God, the people did not know that God had sent down this verse until Abu Bakr has recited it. So, the people in their entirety learnt it from him; then, whosoever amongst the people heard it recited it. Then Saeed Bin Musayyeb has told me, that Umar swearing by God said, did not know of this verse till he heard it from Abu Bakr, and consequently his legs could not support him, he staggered and fell down in an outburst of grief." (Bukhari Kitabun Nabiyye Ila Kisra Wa Qaisara, Musnad Imam Abu Hanifa, p. 188, Hamamul Islamiyya, p. 54, Bukhari, Vol. 2, Manaqib Abu Bakr)
[/QUOTE]

Now, if the companions present on this occasion thought that Hadhrat JesusAS had been alive in Heaven for 600 years, they would have stood up and pointed out to Hadhrat Abu Bakrra, that it was wrong to say that all the earlier prophets had died. If Hadhrat JesusAS could remain alive, why not the Holy ProphetSAW? All the companions who heard this verse (3:145) and heard Hadhrat Abu Bakrra's argument based upon the verse, not only remained silent but began to rejoice over it and went about the town reciting it. This proves beyond doubt that the companions agreed with Hadhrat Abu Bakr'sAS interpretation of the verse that all prophets before the Holy ProphetSAW had died.

The hadith you presented prove Muhammad pbuh's death but does not say Jesus a.s is still alive.

*
Like I said, we do not deny ahadith. Please do not accuse unknowingly. Not agreeing to your understanding of ahadith does not mean rejecting it. I never tell you that you 'reject' ahadith. You just choose not to understand it the way it should be understood.

All of these ahadith needs interpretation. Your way of understanding these ahadith does not qualify you to be a 'believer' of these ahadith and me not agreeing to your understanding does not qualify me as a 'rejecter' of ahadith. I have answer to all of these.. but you will ONLY understand our view on these ahadith if you admit Jesus of Nazareth death based on Quran. Only then there is a reason for me to explain each and every single ahadith and what we believe they mean. And if you think about it, quite frankly it make sense. If you cannot defend your belief of isa a.s's ascension from Qur'an then why would you even go to hadith to save your belief ?

I think you may want to also add ahadith in which Jesus of Nazareth's physical features are told and physical features of Jesus who will be coming back again.

I do not want to take every single hadith, explain it to you, and then in the end you tell me wait a minute!, Jesus is not dead. Then we come back to the same topic. So how about we first sort this issue first. Then only do we need ahadith to expand our understanding of who is it that we really should be waiting for.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

No. Not going against Quran. Look my friend.. ill give you a very simple example. We all know based on our experience and based on the history of humankind that we smell from our nose, eat from our mouth, hear from our ears, see from our eyes. Now, if someone was to tell you that there is this person who is some part of africa or in south pole or where ever, where this man eats from eyes, see from mouth, hear from nose and smell from ears.. then whoever claims that must prove it by making a video of him, or do whatever means to make people believe. The burden of proof lies on the person who claims such a person exist. Not on the one who have always been believing how a human being is like.

Whatever Quran told us as miracles are miracles. Allah says that you will not see any changes in His sunnah. What Allah said that he will NOT do it, trust him in that. He will NOT. Question is not how I define miracle. Question is if Allah had granted such a miracle to anyone early, and more importantly, if Allah even approves of it? His laws as ive said it earlier are absolute. We define miracles exactly how any other muslim define it as. That is not the question. Miracles do happen. But 1) There are verses in Quran indicating Jesus death. 2) Allah did not let any messenger go to heaven physically alive. 3) Allah says ‘therein shall you live’.

You forget all this and emphasis on ‘miracle’. When did i deny miracles? What im denying is the fact that this ‘miracle’ will not happen because Allah disapproves of it in Qur’an. If such a thing does happen, then nauzubillah Quran have wrong verses in it. Nauzubillah.

So either Qur’an is right and your understanding of ‘miracle’ is wrong… or either miracle of him coming down will infact happen, in which case Qur’an is nauzubillah false. Both of this cannot be true the way u understand it. If you say He will come down bodily… then Quran is wrong when it says ‘therein shall you live’. It cannot be that Jesus can BE LIVING and NOT ON EARTH at the same time.. and naming it as miracle. Allah does not need to go against his final word to please your belief of his ascension.

So, lets try this with you now, shall I? make your exceptions in the verse 7:25.

“therein shall you live, therein shall you die, therein shall you be brought forth”.

Make sure you dont ‘reject’ this verse by saying ‘miracles can happen’. In which case, you’re not rejecting my argument, but rather rejecting Quranic verse.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

Peace All,

[note]Thread reviewed. Please continue and :jazak: for your patience[/note]

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Mr.Popat – Please go back and read my post again, this time very slowly, word by word.

You are deliberately side-stepping the main crux of point – Now i feel how frustrating it was for brother psyah to debate with you. You tend to go round in circles and your strategy seems to grind down the other person to boredom with repetitive arguments.

I’ll quote myself AGAIN for your benefit:

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

You are wrong again! This problem lies with mistranslating the Quran by Jamaat Ahmadiyah!!!

The verse in question 3:144 (Jamaat Ahmadiya numbers the reference as 3:145) is translated as follows by all translators except the Jamaat Ahmadiya for obvious motives thus misleading their own folk!!

Jamaat Ahmadiya translation by Mawlavi Sher Ali

And Muhammad is only a messenger. Verily** ALL** messengers have passed away before him. If then he die or be slain, will you then turn back on your heels? He who turns back on his heels shall not harm Allah at all.

(see the ayah numbered 3:145) in the link below:

The Holy Quran

Below I am giving you enough English translations of the said verse and Lo, none of them translated it as ALL THE MESSENGERS HAD DIED

And Muhammad is no more than a messenger; the messengers have already passed away before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? And whoever turns back upon his heels, he will by no means do harm to Allah in the least and Allah will reward the grateful. [Shakir 3:144]

Muhammad is but a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) have passed away before him. Will it be that, when he dieth or is slain, ye will turn back on your heels? He who turneth back on his heels doth no hurt to Allah, and Allah will reward the thankful. [Pickthal 3:144]

Muhammad is no more than a messenger: many Were the messenger that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude. [Yusufali 3:144]

Muhammad is but a messenger, and messengers have passed away before him. If he die or be slain, will ye then turn upon your heels? Whoso turneth upon his heels will thereby do no hurt unto God; and God will reward the thankful. [Martin Lings 3:144]

MuHammad is but a messenger, there have been messengers before him. So, if he dies or is killed, would you turn back on your heels? Whoever turns back on his heels can never harm Allah in the least. Allah shall soon reward the grateful. [Mufti Muhammad Taqi Uthmani 3:144]

Muhammad is naught but a Messenger; Messengers have passed away before him. Why, if he should die or is slain, will you turn about on your heels? If any man should turn about on his heels, he will not harm God in any way; and God will recompense the thankful. [Arthur J Arberry 3:144]

And Muhammad is only a Messenger. Surely, Messengers passed away before him. Then, if he died or be slain, will you turn about on your heels? And he who turns about on his heels will not injure God at all. And God will give recompense to the ones who are thankful. [Laleh Bakhtiar 3:144]

Muhammad is not but a messenger. [Other] messengers have passed on before him. So if he was to die or be killed, would you turn back on your heels [to unbelief]? And he who turns back on his heels will never harm Allah at all; but Allah will reward the grateful. [Ibrahim Walk 3:144]

– See how Ahmadiyah Jamaat cheat!!!

The following ayah is so appropriate.

There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, “That is from Allah,” but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it! [3:78]

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Criteria to Understand Hadith is:

One must be well versed with the Quran

Secondly One must be well versed with Seeerah of the Prophet (saw)

Thirdly One must know and understand in context in which the Prophet said or acted in certain fashion

Forthly we must understand how the blessed Sahabah (may Allah be pleased with them all) understood the hadith - we use the Ijma As-Sahabah on hadith too.

Anything against and besides the above is mischief and in manifest error.

Interpretation of hadith has been done with and no one now has the right in invent new interpretations – Only those who have agendas will twist the hadith like they do with Quran to “meet the requirements of their cult!”

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

I will show you what the Quran says – I have no opinion other than what the Quran states : - Jesus is not dead

The above is irrelevant – if the above was really true and was shown and proved to true then it would be classed as a miracle as it was against the norm.

Clearly everyone can see that you haven’t given a definition of a miracle – even though I had challenged you to give a definition of Miracle.

Below I have got it from the Net – the definition to be quite precise would you agree?

*Miracle in the Qur’an can be defined as a supernatural intervention in the life of human beings. According to this definition, miracles are present “in a threefold sense: in sacred history, in connection with the Islamic prophet Muhammad himself and in relation to revelation.” The Qur’an does not use the technical Arabic word for miracle (Muʿd̲j̲iza) literally meaning “that by means of which confounds, overwhelms, his opponents”. It rather uses the term Ayah (literally meaning sign). The term Ayah is used in the Qur’an in the above mentioned threefold sense: it refers to the “verses” of the Qur’an (believed to be the divine speech in human language; presented by Muhammad as his chief miracle); as well as to miracles of it and the signs( particularly those of creation).
In order to defend the possibility of miracles and God’s omnipotence against the encroachment of the independent secondary causes, medieval Muslim theologians rejected the idea of cause and effect in essence, but accepted it as something that facilitates humankind’s investigation and comprehension of natural processes. They argued that the nature was composed of uniform atoms that were “re-created” at every instant by God. Thus if the soil was to fall, God would have to create and re-create the accident of heaviness for as long as the soil was to fall. For Muslim theologians, the laws of nature were only the customary sequence of apparent causes: customs of God.
*
Islamic view of miracles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What Is a Miracle? - Koran

*What Is a Miracle?

Some Muslims search for a scientific explanation for miracles, but scholars argue that the laws of nature are Allah’s creation, and He has the ability to break them as He pleases to create miracles. This means that the laws only appear fixed to us, but can be changed by Allah’s command as He requires.
*

So a miracle takes place when Allah (swt) breaks what is norm. Allah is bound by no laws and no law binds Him He is free of everything – Allah can do what his likes. By saying that Allah’s laws are absolute, you are binding Allah to them yet He free of them!!!

“Verily, His Command, when He intends a thing, is only that He says to it, ‘Be!’ and it is!”[Yaa-Seen 36:82]

Allah (swt) makes the Miracles to show His Power is Omnipotent and that He is NOT bound by any laws.

Allow me to give you some examples.

Humans procreate when the male and female ‘meet’.

Creation of Hz. Adam (as) without parents was a miracle!
Creation of Hz. Hawwa (ra) from Hz. Adam (as)was a miracle!
Creation of Hz. Isa (as) without father was a miracle!

These won’t be repeated again.

Do you think any woman who is pregnant can claim that is pregnant yet a virgin?

Example 2

How can ye reject the faith in God?- seeing that ye were without life, and He gave you life; then will He cause you to die, and will again bring you to life; and again to Him will ye return. (The Noble Quran, 2:28)"

The above ayah means:

  1. Allah (swt) gives life
  2. Everyone born will taste death once
  3. Allah (swt) will give life again

You agree that above is Allah’s rule/law?

Now what about those who Hz. Isa ibn Maryum (as) brought to life – once they had died – with Allah’s Will.

These people:

  1. Were alive
  2. Then they died
  3. Brought to life – by Hz. Isa ibn Maryum (as) – with Allah’s Will.
  4. Then died again when Allah Willed
  5. Allah will give them life again.

This is against the norm. Thus Miracle

Example 3

Allah (swt) has willed the water to flow to the lower level

But for Hz. Musa (as) the sea parted making a valley in the water with ‘cliffs’ of ‘standing’ water either side!

This is against the norm of water’s behavior. Thus Miracle

Example 4

Ayahs below show that Allah (swt) has set laws for the planetary system.

Indeed, Allah holds the heavens and the earth, lest they deviate from their orbits. And if they should ever deviate from their orbits, no one could hold them [in place] after Him. Indeed, He is forbearing and forgiving. (35:41)

( It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon.They swim along, each in an orbit.) ( Quran - Surat al-Anbiya, 33)

Splitting the Moon

The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder. [54:1]

But if they see a Sign, they turn away, and say, “This is (but) transient magic.” [54:2]

Allah (swt) split the moon to challenge the Quraish of Makkah thus defying the gravitational forces at works to keep the Earth, Moon and other planetary objects in place.

This is against the norm. Thus a Miracle

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

The Quran is always right and as I am following criteria given below I am ok

To Understand and interpret Quran al Kareem.

1) First of all Quran explains itself
2) Secondly we use the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw) to understand the Quran
3) Thirdly we use the Ijma As-Sahabah
4) Forthly, Qiyas and Ijtihad

You have quoted the following ayah time and again.

He (also) said: Therein shall you live, and therein shall you die, and from it shall you be raised. [7:25]

This ayah is general in meaning;

1) That mankind will live on Earth
2) On Earth they will die
3) From it they will be raised

What’s your problem with this?

These are general rules and Divine Miracles always go against the Rules which were put in place by Allah (swt) Himself. Thus a miracle.

Those have faith in Ability of Allah to do whatever He Wills have no difficulty with any miracles in the Quran or Hadith.

Those who have pseudo-rationality, due to their own limited minds, cannot comprehend Omnipotence of Allah (swt); thus they want to Limit Allah’s Ability to their own flawed rationality.

In plain English I am rejecting your pseudo-rationality not the Quran - Your understanding is at variant what the Prophet taught and and as understood by the Sahabah (May Allah be pleased with them all)

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

I told you. Hadith you posted was nothing in favor of your belief. I posted this hadith. Read carefully. If you believe sahaba of that time knew Isa a.s was alive, howcome no one stood up and said if He can stay alive, so can Holy prophet Muhammad PBUH? That what I'm asking.

[QUOTE]
"Abdullah Bin Abbas narrated that Abu Bakr came out while Umar was conversing with the people. He said to Umar to sit but he refused to comply with. So, the people turned towards him (Abu Bakr) and left Umar. Then Abu Bakr said: Whoever amongst you worshipped Muhammad, let him know that Muhammad is dead, and whoever amongst you worshipped Allah, let him know that Allah is Living, there is no death for Him. Allah has said, `And Muhammad is only a Messenger. Verily, Messengers have passed away before him...' The narrator says, by God, the people did not know that God had sent down this verse until Abu Bakr has recited it. So, the people in their entirety learnt it from him; then, whosoever amongst the people heard it recited it. Then Saeed Bin Musayyeb has told me, that Umar swearing by God said, did not know of this verse till he heard it from Abu Bakr, and consequently his legs could not support him, he staggered and fell down in an outburst of grief." (Bukhari Kitabun Nabiyye Ila Kisra Wa Qaisara, Musnad Imam Abu Hanifa, p. 188, Hamamul Islamiyya, p. 54, Bukhari, Vol. 2, Manaqib Abu Bakr)
[/QUOTE]

Theres nothing to be frustrated about. I'm here making a point. Try to make me understand where I'm wrong. No. You're mistaken when you say sahaba knew that jesus a.s is alive. No, they did not. Find me one sahabah who stood up saying that Holy prophet can be alive just like how jesus a.s is.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

Let’s not bring jamaat e ahmadiyya into this ok? :slight_smile:
3:144 or 145( as ahmadis consider bismillah to be the first verse of every surah like some other sects of islam ), does say ‘messengers like unto him have passed away’. Now, the reason why the word ‘all’ is there is 1) its usually added in brackets 2) it is there because Qur’an does not allow any messenger to still have been alive.

See these translations for your convenience.

Like you see, there is no harm in adding ‘all’ or ‘the like of whom’. All is added because Qur’an declares Isa a.s dead. Not just in one verse , but in many. Adding in brackets does not make it a part of Quran, but merely how the verse should be understood.

One thing however, in this verse is clear. Messengers before Him have died. Now, if you want to put isa a.s as exception, thats up to you. But then there are other verses in Quran, how many of quranic verses will you keep changing the understanding of to fit your belief ?

See another verse:
5:75 The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.

Messiah was only a messenger.. messengers like him had passed away..

Now read this :

Harry is only a human.. humans do tend to make mistakes.

From this, what should a sane person conclude ? Because harry is a human, other humans can make mistakes, but he cant?

or

Harry is a human being just like any other. He makes mistakes like any other human ?