Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

in your belief did the spirit/soul of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, spend part of the night in heaven? that too would constitute a contradiction in your own specified understanding of 7:25, in my opinion

you asked to be shown exceptions, youve been shown an exception that youve claimed yourself

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Peace Psyah,

Again you are asserting that we reject ahadith. We are NOT 'Quran only' people but we try to get as much as we can from the holy book since it is very word of Allah, above any doubts and well protected.
Not accepting your version of interpretation of ahadith doesn't amount to rejection of them. Don't you summarily reject ahadith when presented to you especially Dar-e-qutni's hadith of eclipses.

Hadiths are definitely very importance source but try not to belittle the importance of Quran. Remember Quran explains itself as well.

As for 7:25, 2:36, 77:25-26, I don't want to go on with debate , I will just make a statement that when Allah Himself has said that Earth is abode for us to live then how can He Himself break His own law and take one person to heavens to live.
space travel, going to other planets is not against this principle. Whoever goes to space and elsewhere HAS to have a link with the earth to survive. Can you give me an example where people have been LIVING somewhere other than the Earth independently without any support system / link with the Earth.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Peace kchughtai

This is a very important question so I thank you for asking it ...

The simplest answer is that this is the reason for the title "Masih" ... You see Allah (SWT) has favoured various people throughout time ... We are bound by our 'aqeedah not only to believe in the Ascension - but also more fundamentally even the idea of Miracle ... Mu'ajiza is a general binding on us and one specific example of a Miracle is the Ascension ...

A Miracle is a very special and particular exception to the general rule ... like Maryam (AS) who bore Isa (AS) without male intervention - you believe in this ... I know you do ... but for us the Ascension of Isa (AS) comes from the same or similar set of conditions. The statement of Isa (AS) being taken from the grips of the Jews and Romans who wanted to crucify him is for us a story about an amazing miracle ... there is nothing amazing in surviving a short lived crucifixion with some wounds ... but every thing amazing in being taken away from that area completely and a whole community of people delluded in to thinking they crucified the one they intended.

You see in the Qur'an - life is also made with two - a male and a female - but not Isa (AS) ...

And of all things We created two mates; perhaps you will remember.
**Surah 51 Verse 49

**This verse has a linguistic exception - you can't see it if you have not studied the Arabic ... People think "Kullu" means "all and no exception" - but it does not unless it appears later in the sentence ... the position is important ... you see the critics of Islam use this verse to say that there are many living things that are not created in pairs ... I say so what ! Learn Arabic ...

Same applies with the verse 7:25 ... even moreso because that word "Kullu" is not even there ...

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Sura Al Imran, Verse 145:

No one has given a explanation to me yet!

And Muhammad is only a Messenger. Verily, all Messengers have passed away before him. If then he die or be slain, will you turn back on your heels? And he who turns back on his heels shall not harm Allah at all. And Allah will certainly reward the grateful.

Leaving this aside for a Moment.

I ask another question:

The Hadith speaks of a "just" ruler. Is it just to Kill the swine (the disbelievers) and Break the Cross in literal sense, then?

Ibn Sadique:

I followed the Link you posted about the Cult Girl and I have sent them an email and left a note in the comments and now I adress you:

If truth had to be told, why do people run away from their families? Did Muhammad Mustafa (saw) run away from the Meccan Chiefs? Do you say, out of fear? A true muslim does not fear Man, A true Muslim only and alone fears Allah.

What a cheap way to corrupt our hearts and minds.

Period!

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Moster prophet? More like NOT A prophet . Atleast that's what alot of people belive, I think Psyah is also one of them. They believe that when Jesus (PBUH) will come back, he will not be a prophet, they believe that when he was taken up by Allah SWT, his Prophethood ended. And in such a way the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) can be the last prophet...Even going as far as creating words such as "prophetship"...

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

??
How does it really matter how long of a night He s.a.w spent in heaven? It was a spiritual journey. It was a kashaf.. a very miraculous kashaf. His body was present on Earth while he s.a.w was being shown the heavens. Nothing of this belief contradicts anything..not even 7:25.
Sleep is a form of death. Even in sleep, body remains on Earth.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

My friend, i AM giving you the benefit of doubt about the verse having exception.. This is why I posted in post #42..

[QUOTE]
If verse allows exception then these questions are raised :

1) 'therein shall you live' >> exception : there are chances people CAN live outside the Earth.
2) 'therein shall you die' >> exception : People do die in space too.
3) 'therein shall you be brought forth' >>exception : Allah can brought forth from anywhere.

apply these exceptions on Isa a.s ..

1)>> i dont know how you would answer if a person is alive and is living outside the Earth
2)>> if people do die in space, then He a.s must be dead since he is somewhere other than Earth.
3)>> if Allah can bring forth from anywhere, then why does Isa a.s have to come to Earth and die and be brought forth from here? why can he not be brought forth from anywhere ? The fact that you DO believe Isa a.s to come ON Earth to die, the fact that you DO believe that he a.s will be brought forth from Earth ( agreeing to 2 of the points of the verse ) , then you must also believe that in order for him to be alive, he must be on Earth.. or else anywhere he must be, he a.s must be dead.
[/QUOTE]

Here are all the possible exceptions i could think about. If the verse itself has exceptions in it.. then that is what I honestly came up with.. you're more than welcome to add any more exception in it.. keeping in mind what the verse is saying.. and ill for sure look into it.

Nothing else was important enough for a reply. Quran does not agree with your belief of ascension. In fact, there are verses proving His death. Ahadith that is about coming of Messiah is referring to a Messiah who will be born in Muslim Ummah. That is again another topic. But first, we must approve his ascension from Qur'an in order to believe that Messiah mentioned in ahadith is the same Messiah that was sent before. Or else, we must understand Ahadith in accordance to Qur'an.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Peace Bigboi

Which word in the verse translates to "all" ?

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

The words were created only to represent the concepts that are real ... The status of prophet > I called that prophetship and the role of prophet > I said was prophethood ... Similar to someone getting their Doctorship ... But only considered a doctor when they practice.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

This does not matter. "Verily, messengers have passed away."

Now you really want to come here and challenge the Qur'An?

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

Peace All,

With reference to my post# 14, 45, & Mr.Popat’s post 47, lastly kchughtai’s post# 52. These taking different direction as said by Mr.Popat, I’ll split it for another discussion :insh:. Pardon me Popat for inconvenience.

The verse 7:25 in Holy Qur’an is related to Prophet Adam a.s. If we read verses from 19 onwards than we’ll came to know that the verse 25 is also related to Him. There is no need to link this verse specially to the death of Hazrat Isa a.s. This is all about Hazrat Adam a.s., how Shaitan whisper suggestion to him.

Our first parents as created by Almighty Allah (and this applies to all of us) were innocent in matters material as welll as spiritual. They knew no evil. But the faculty of choice, which was given to them and which raised them above the angels, also implied that they had the capacity of evil, which by the training of their own will, they were to reject. They were warned of the danger. When they fell, they realised the evil. They were (and we are) still given the chances, in this life on a lower plane, to make good and recover the lost status of innocence and bliss.

This whole passage about Hazrat Adam a.s. with the passage in Chapter 2 verses 30 to 39, and with other passage in subssequent Chapters. In places the words are precisely the same and yet the whole argument is different. In each case it exactly fits the context. In Chapter 2 the argument was about the origin of man. Here the argument is a prelude to his history on earth, and so it continue logically in the next section to address the Children of Adam a.s. and goes on afterwards with the story of the various apostles that came to guide mankind.

Truth is one, but its apt presentment in human words shows a different facet in difference contexts.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Peace Bigboi

Where did the "all" go?

Nope ... Let's get this clear you are challenging me and I am defending ... No one neither is nor can challenge the Qur'an.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Peace All,

How beautifuly Almighty Allah says in the Holy Quran: "And ** [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain**."

After reading this verse, no doubt is left and all the things can be seen immaculately ofcoz only for those who have 'knowledge' and ability of understanding. In this one verse 'they did not kill him' repeated twice. What else proof required to believe?

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

all is shown like this >* all* meaning in brackets, here added, but this does not matter. If you want to limit our conversation to this cheap way, then there is no need for me to keep this discussion going.

Leaving the all aside.

"Verily, messengers have passed way"...clear proof that Isa (as) is death. Now it is up to Allah. Allah changes the Hearts, the Mind, I can only give you hints/advises. You can decide whatever you please. This is not my cup of tea.

Allah Hafiz and peace be with you.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Peace Bigboi,

If you really seek truth than I think these verses you'll find interesting to read.
*Matthew 24:3,4,5.
*
Later, Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives. His disciples came to him privately and said, "Tell us, when will all this happen? What sign will signal your return and the end of the world?"

Jesus told them, "Don't let anyone mislead you,

For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

I seek TRUTH in the Holy Qur'An, not in the Bible. In fact the Holy Qur'An has shattered your beliefs. The Holy Qur'An has shattered your misconcepts and now you can't help yourself, but bring me the Bible. A clear sign has come from Allah and I'm told to read the Bible, a "incomplete" Book!

I leave this case to Allah.

Thank you ONCE AGAIN for strengthening my belief Brother.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Peace LLK

Can you please lock this thread?

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Did you give up? ;)

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Well I let you give up ... Or I am beginning to think I can do better with my time ... it's not a game ... Btw.

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Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

You are making a game here, not me.

proof is in the quote. You owe me a explanation. Yet you have not given one reasonable answer. Did you? Show me, I seem uninformed.

"Verily, messengers before Muhammad (saw) have passed away."