Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

khatam nabiyin - muslims believe this means last (seal) of the prophets, qadianis believe it means seal (approval seal), they say they believe in khatam rasuluhin. whats the daleel for believing in khatam rasuluhin? is it khatam nabiyin or something else?

also similar to denial of miracles, the qadiani view of prophets is very down to earth and are able to make mistakes worse then what muslims would define as deviant scholars. in this regard mirza ghulam refused to comment, but did pen contradictory statements, on the birth of Isa AS prefering rather to join the majority muslim view simply because he wasnt 'guided' in this matter. his first caliph chose to believe Isa AS had a father
Allah SWT has told us to use real fathers name but has called Isa son of Mariam. a sign for all those who can see

however i suspect many mirzais will see the miraculous birth of Isa AS as a mushriq belief, even mirza ghulam when under pressure wrote: *"Jesus worked with his father Joseph for 22 years as a carpenter." * this occasion he believed Isa AS to be ibn joseph (nauzhubillah)

most deserving and welcome to follow the deviant book bearing prophethood is mr.popat

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

Popat – I think the viewers can clearly see that you are constrained by your Ahmadi views. It is not matter of simple English to make you understand but rather it is your controlled mind that won’t let you understand other than what has been drummed into your head.

Following is the statement of Hz. Ayeisha (ra):

"Say he is ‘the LAST of prophets’ but do NOT say ‘there is no prophet after him’

The above statement clearly states that she is advising and reminding the people that though Hz. Muhammad (saw) is the last Messenger of Allah Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) who is a messenger will be coming in the end of times.

All the Believers at that time (Mind you, these are Companions (raa) of the Prophet (saw)) were aware that Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) have second coming near to the end of times.

The fact is this that Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) is an appointed prophet of Allah (swt); you cannot take it away from him.
They were also well aware that this time around he will be coming as an Islamic leader and not as messenger.

And nowhere in the ahadith literature will Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) ever claim that his status is that of a messenger.

If there was any advent of a new prophet than the statement of Hz. Ayeisha (ra) would as follows:

"Say he is ‘the LAST of prophets’ but do say ‘there is NEW (Another) prophet after him’

I have made it very simple; even if you understand it, I know you do as you sound quite an intelligent guy, your Ahmadi faith blocks your mind. If you agree with me than Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is an imposter. This is your dilemma.

Typical, when confounded start abusing, yes you are indeed following the sunnah of MGA.

You mean fairytales like Hz. Adam (as) was born in Mesopotamia :wink: and Mr. Iblis (the cursed one) was a man in Mesopotamia and was a trouble maker? :wink: And their some tribal wars going on…………….. :slight_smile:

And you said you believed them and had the time to read the fairytales to us. Pardon me, spare us that agony (hearing the fairytales). :hoonh:

Islam is complete. Prophet Muhammad (saw) had done job to perfection and delivered complete Islam, nothing was left out.

It’s deviants like you who believe that there is room to improve Islam.

Quran testifies that Message of Islam is complete!
*
This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Mercifu*l. (Quran 3:5)

Absolutely nothing could be added to Islam and nothing could be taken out. Any such deed would tantamount to rebelling against none other than Allah (swt) Himself!!!

Refer to Prophet’s (saw) farewell sermon:

O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed your message to your people".

IslamiCity.com - Prophet Muhammad’s (PBUH) Farewell Sermon

He did remind the Believers that no Prophets will come after him (He was aware that Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) will come) and no new faith.

And he took Allah (saw) as witness against US (Humanity) that he has delivered the message complete.

As for the messengers whom He has chosen, He guards them from the front and from behind to make sure that they have delivered the messages of their Lord. (Al-Jinn 72: 27 - 28)

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Yes, the belief of Muslims is that Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) will clear the differences within the Believers; he will remove all the Bidahs that have cropped in some of the sects.

He will restore Islam to what the blessed Prophet Muhammad (saw) taught and what the blessed Companions (may Allah be pleased with them all)

He will add nothing to Islam and remove nothing from Islam – Just polish it up the pristine glory of the times of the blessed Prophet (saw) and his Companions (may Allah be pleased with them all).

Whereas MGA has the audacity to reject ahadith of the blessed Prophet (saw) to waste bins just to promote his NEW FAITH – He has given his own interpretation to Quran to suit his agenda.

It is at variance to Islam:

"My teachings contain orders as well as prohibitions and renovation of important injunctions of the Shari'at. For this reason God has named my teachings and the 'WAHI' (revelations) that comes to me as a 'boat. Thus see, God has declared my 'wahi', my teachings and allegiance with me to be Noah's Ark and the basis of salvation for all human beings. Let he who has eyes may see and he who has ears may hear." (Arba'een, Vol. 4, footnote of page 6; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 17, p. 435).

The Ahmadis want others to believe that MGA did not bring new Shariat and was merely following the Shariah of Islam!

Obviously, they are mistaken when they make that statement. MGA reinterpreted Quran at will and rejected any ahadith he did not agree with.

By modifying elements of the Shariah, he has created his own Shariah.

Outwardly it may resemble the Shairah of the blessed Prophet (saw) but in reality it takes it own identity. Separate, and entirely separate.

If the teacher has taught you alphabet from A to Z and if one start twisting the alphabets and makes ‘K’ sideways ‘A’ & ‘T’ upside down ‘R’ ‘S’ ‘V’ ‘W’ sideways and ‘take some alphabets due to ‘WAHI’ you got and introduced some new symbols to due to ‘WAHI’ you got and present it as original alphabet.

To a careless observer it may seem to appear same just because a lot of original alphabets have been retained.
But in reality it new set of alphabet.

Please try to fool the people; they are smart enough to see through your vague arguments.

There you go again and misrepresenting or in other words being deceitful/devious.

Your hero’s name is Ghulam Ahmad and it certainly is NOT Ahmad. These are two separate names.

Ghulam Ahmad means Slave of the One who is praise; whereas Ahmad means the One who is praised.

Just like Abdullah and Allah are not some names.

Abdullah means slave of Allah whereas Allah is the name of the Creator.

Using your cunningness, If I drop Abdu; Allah is remains.

Do you get it?

Why did you drop the Ghulam? So that deceitfully/deviously you can claim that Ahmad in Quran refers to your Hero?

Is that honesty? Do you take everyone to be fools? You can suck up whatever is dished to you, don’t accept others to follow you just those who followed the famous Pied Piper with smiles on their faces.

So that means till arrival of MGA all were groping around blindly?

Worry not I am never stretched to explain my religion. Two posts above I proved your deviousness. (Ghulam Ahmad and Ahmad) :D

So why have you guys questioning Allah (swt) has taken Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) up to heavens?

Why Allah (swt) and how will Allah (swt) send him back?

How is Allah (swt) managing to keep taken Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) alive in the Heaven soooooo loooooong?

Allah (swt) can do what He pleases. It was His Pleasure and Will that He had already decided that He will take Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) to heavens and return Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) when it Pleases HIM.

I agree with you that these kind of questions are ridiculous and I can add further that it smacks of rebelliousness against Allah (swt)! I am sure you concur with me.

Please do a google search on ‘Fastest growing religion’ and then come back and talk. Your Murabis lie.

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

Your beloved prophet did not get invited to visit House of Allah – If loved him so much, He would have made it possible for Him. Allah (swt) has kept His House away from you.

Those Ahmadis who visit Allah’s House using ‘foreign’ passport dare not announce proudly that they are Ahmadis – pretending to be Sunni.

Can you Khalifahs perform Hajj – one of requirements of Islam. Why has Allah (swt) denied His ‘erstwhile’ servants to visit His Blessed House? Think about it!

Correction: His name is not Ahmad; It is Ghulam Ahmad! Do I have tell you the correct name of your prophet? :slight_smile:

For you he came and has gone! Your Jamaat has been uprooted from it birthplace to faraway lands.

You call this victory? Don’t tell me, you are going to conquer everything back?

Yes, It takes a lot of courage to claim prophet hood. And history has proved it that there are many adventurers who have claimed prophet hood.

Your Mirza Tahir had boasted about 200 millions Ahmadis worldwide and later revised figures are less than half the boast.

Please do a google search on ‘Fastest growing religion’ and then come back and talk. Your Murabis lie.

Read about Joseph Smith, He is self appointed prophet, still thriving, Allah (swt) has no pulled the rope on him and others as yet.

**Joseph Smith **

During his lifetime Smith produced numerous revelations that are regarded as scripture by his followers. His teachings include unique views about the nature of God, cosmology, family structures, political organization, and religious collectivism. His followers regard him as a prophet of at least the stature of Moses and Elijah. Smith’s legacy includes a number of religious denominations, including the Utah-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which claims a growing membership of more than 14 million worldwide.

Joseph Smith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

Allah (swt) is very Patient - God’s mill grinds slow but sure.

**Sai BaBa **was claiming to be God – He was very successful and has worldwide following. So wass Allah (swt) aiding him?

Read again about Joseph Smith – Is Allah (SWT) aiding him?

Joseph Smith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are many more successful (temporarily) imposters - search and you will find them. As I said: God’s mill grinds slow but sure.

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

This tops everything!!!:smiley: Your muabis told you that!!!:blush:

Sunnis are 90% of Believers and Shias 10% - get the facts right from your mentors!

Please do a google search on ‘Fasted growing religion’ and then come back and talk. Your Murabis lie.

Giving abuse? – following the Sunnah of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad?

Giving abuse? – following the Sunnah of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad?

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Peace Mr.Popat

                                            There is a promise in the Holy Qur’an that Allah (SWT) would safeguard Islam at the time of trials and dangers as is said:

                ‘We Ourself have sent down this Admonition and We shall surely safeguard it.’(15:10) 

According to this promise Allah (SWT) safeguarded His word in four ways.

First, by means of those who have committed the Holy Qur’an to memory, its text and sequence were safeguarded. In each century there have been hundreds of thousands of peoplewho had committed this Holy Word to memory and thus safeguarded it in such a way that if they were asked about one word they could recite its context. In this way, theHoly Qur’an was safeguarded against verbal perversion in every age.

Secondly, through great divines who were bestowed an understanding of the Qur’an in every century, who interpreted the Qur’an with the help of the Ahadith, and thus safeguarded the Holy Word of Allah (SWT) and its holy teaching against the perversion of its meaning in every age.

Thirdly, through scholars who set forth Qur’anic teachings in the light of reason and thus safeguarded the Holy Word of Allah (SWT) against the attacks of short-sighted philosophers.

Fourthly, through those upon whom spiritual bounties were bestowed who safeguarded the Holy Word of Allah (SWT) in *every age against the attacks of those who denied miracles and spiritual insights. *

So you see in Islam our Tafsir that we use today are purified from being misconstrued ... And the moment people say otherwise those rogue opinions stop in their tracks ... Do you agree with this post, Mr. Popat?

The answer to this will lead on to your question's answer.

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Even after believing Muhammad PBUH to be last(seal) of prophet, you are waiting for Jesus A.S. I do not understand how you believing in another prophet "AFTER" Muhammad pbuh keeps u Muslim and me a non muslim.

You people are masters of spreading lies after lies. I swear upon Allah that jamaat e ahmadiyya's stance of the birth of Jesus a.s is exactly how Quran has told us. He a.s was born to a virgin Mary. No one dare prove his birth with intervention of any male.

Joseph did infact marry Mary AFTER Jesus a.s's birth. Having a husband to Mary AFTER Jesus's birth does not equal Jesus being a son of Joseph.

Isa a.s's birth was miraculous. There is not a single iota of doubt in this regard. What Quran says is exactly how He was born. Stop spreading lies.

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

Say he is the ‘last prophet’ but do NOT say there is NO prophet after him. Do not say that ! there is infact another prophet after Him. Changing the word to ’ say he is the last prophet’ only creates confusion. This is why in this whole hadith, khataman nabiyeen should be taken as seal of prophet.. and not last. This was why i asked why you u used ‘seal of prophet’ for this hadith. Anyway, so do NOT say there is no prophet after him..even him being called khataman nabiyeen. Now, either your understanding of khataman nabiyeen is twisted or you just cannot accept the second part of the hadith where it says ..do not say there is no prophet after him. So there is! Lessons of english needed indeed.

A hadith in which Jesus a.s is referred as ‘nabi allah’ 4 times in one hadith is proof enough that he will be a prophet. Yes, after Muhammad PBUH.

You really do need english lessons..even in your example of how the narration should have been if there was a new prophet does not make sense.

You are saying ‘say he is the last of prophets’ but **DO NOT say ‘there is no new prophet after him’ **?

Key word is ’ DO NOT say’ .. ok so i DO NOT say that there is “no” prophet after Him… there will be.. I admit there will be. :halo:

Narration is telling you NOT to say that there wont be any prophet after Him…and you’re following exactly opposite. You say yea there wont be any prophet after him. Really ?

My mind is very much open. You do not open someone’s mind by your illogical arguments. Talk to me from Quran. You never know when allah will open your mind and eyes.

No. Fairytale that he was literally thrown to Earth. Being born is not fairytale. Literally throwing someone on Earth is. Keep ur beliefs of Adam to yourself. That is of no concern to me in this thread. You want to discuss about this whole issue, you’re more than welcome to either PM or open a new thread and i will participate. At the moment i want someone to explain me 2 verses that shows Jesus death from my side. I want someone to tell me where i’ve gone wrong in translating the verses.

Even after completion of Islam, you are waiting for a prophet. How ironic!
completion of Islam does not mean ‘perfection’ of islam will remain. Am i incorrect when I said Jesus a.s will be telling you the true teachings of Islam ?

No new faith will be born. No new faith has been born. It has been Islam all along. When he referred to no prophet will come after me , and right after that said no new faith will be born.. shows that it means no new prophet with new shariya will now come. Islamic shariya is the last and most perfect shariyah.
I’ve gotten the message of Muhammad PBUH who said to believe in the Messiah and convey my Salam to Him even if you have to crawl in mountains to reach Him. Messiah, who will be a prophet, though will NOT bring new shariyah. Therefore, a prophet is what you’re waiting for as well.

Yep! Allah does guard the prophets. He make sure that the message of Lord is delivered through His messengers. No opponents stand a chance against them. Read my previous reply to you in which i briefly explained the behavior of Allah towards his prophets. Thanks.

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Mr.Popat

You have to use all hadith together ... One says "There is no prophet after me" and the other one is this from Sayyidah Aisha (RA) ... you must find the balance between the two and the interpretation we have does just that ...

Sayyidina Muhammad (SAW) is the Last Person to have been bestowed with prophethood ... that is the simple answer ... to the meaning of Khatim-an-nabiyeena ...

The bestowing of prophethood has been sealed ... never to occur again ... Whether a previously appointed prophet comes or not is neither here or there ... It is mentioned in other hadith about the Nuzul of Isa (AS) ... What we are talking about here is "nabuwwa" not the physical coming or going of prophets.

Can a prophet from the past come back in the future? = Yes
Can a new person be bestowed with prophecy? = No

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

Yes there was a typo :blush: - And I corrected it before you pointed it out :slight_smile: But I won’t take lessons from Teechi Teechi, and you know the reason :wink:

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Yes. Quran is safeguarded. It's Allah's promise that He will safeguard His words.

[QUOTE]

Secondly, throughgreat divines who were bestowed an understanding of the Qur’an in every century, who
interpreted the Qur’an with the help of the Ahadith, and thus safeguarded the Holy Word of Allah (SWT) and its holy teaching against the perversion of its meaning in every age.
[/QUOTE]

Sure. But none of these who interpreted Quran claimed to be prophet. None of them said that Allah has told me the meaning of the verses and told me the hidden meanings. But ok, sure.. at this point all i care about is an answer from you..

[QUOTE]

Thirdly, through scholars who set forth Qur’anic teachings in the light of reason and thus safeguarded the Holy Word of Allah (SWT) against the attacks of short-sighted philosophers.
[/QUOTE]

That is not safeguarding. The context of Quran is what allah promised to safeguard. The different meanings of verses that every other scholar does is up to them. It is their 'own' understanding of what it should mean. Scholars are not equal a person who is from Allah who says he translated and brought out the true teachings of Islam through divine guidance. There is a difference.

[QUOTE]

Fourthly, through those upon whom spiritual bounties were bestowed who safeguarded the Holy Word of Allah (SWT) in *every age against the attacks of those who denied miracles and spiritual insights. *
[/QUOTE]

Those 4 categories of 'safeguarding' holy word is of your own. Allah said that he will safeguard Quran.

There have been attacks and continue to have attacks by Christians on Quran. How do you not see this as an attack when they say your prophet (muhammad pbuh) died where as our God is still alive. Do u not see this as an attack to Islam when they say that Islamic belief is that God does not die.. look.. our God has not died yet.. and your belief says the same thing. Yeah he will come and die, but until then.. you must accept him as God. or son of God. you know very well who has safeguarded Islam and the true teachings of Islam and gave a solid answer to Christianity and broke the cross. You just cant digest that. It's as simple

[QUOTE]
So you see in Islam our Tafsir that we use today are purified from being misconstrued ... And the moment people say otherwise those rogue opinions stop in their tracks ... Do you agree with this post, Mr. Popat?

The answer to this will lead on to your question's answer.
[/QUOTE]

Tafsir as you have understood are from people who used their understanding. Like I said, theres a difference one saying that He translated and wrote tafsir through divine guidance versus people who use their understanding of how the verses should be translated.

Anyhow, may I please have a reasonable response to 2 verses now? Thanks.

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

Good for you. So believe that there WILL be a prophet after him who will not bring new shariyat.

A prophet AFTER Him indeed. Your responsibility is to show me a previous prophet can come. My responsibility is to tell you previous prophets do not become part of next prophet’s shariyat.. and also that previous prophets have died and none is coming who is 2012 years old. The belief is the same. You saying someone from earlier days will come.. me sayin he died but another person in muslim ummah given the title of Jesus will appear. Hope you understand your responsibility that your scholars have put on your shoulder.

Hope you get it this time around.

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

There are 2 types of prophethood. Prophethood with shariyat and prophethood with no shariyat.

Prophet s.a.w said that there is no prophet after him and no new faith will be born. It shows no prophet can now come that can abrogate Islamic shariyah. Therefore no new faith will be born.

If you say Muhammad PBUH is the last person to have been bestowed with prophethood. Then you should divide the term in to 2 meanings. Muhammad PBUH to have been the 'last' person to be 'born' as a prophet. Isa a.s will be the 'last' person that will 'die' as a prophet.

Isa a.s will be informed He a.s is nabi. He a.s will be blessed with Wahi. This time (according to you, if he a.s is the same person coming back), the wahi will be according to Islam.

My question to you is : If believing in prophets is what makes you a Muslim.. then you have already believed in Isa a.s's prophethood. You are NOT required to be on the side of Jesus a.s if he a.s is not to be given the prophethood which will now be for Islam. Believing in Him on his second coming is not important now. He (as) still has the same title of prophet as was given to him 2012 years ago.

That is your made up belief that prophet from past CAN come but NEW prophet cannot. There is not a single hadith or verse from Quran approving your belief of previous prophet CAN come. It is not only against common sense but most importantly against Quran and ahadith. It's strange how you have completely shut your eyes to see verses from Quran and ahadith..and just keep on believing what you've been told to believe...as if this is the way of your salvation. On the contrary, I can give you evidence that previous prophets CANNOT be in the ummah of prophets that are AFTER them.

Again, i'm not the one who likes to get off topic. So ill repeat myself. Isa a.s was just a messenger, and messengers like him have passed away.. and he , along with his mother used to eat. Isa a.s passed away just like other messengers before him have. Isa a.s used to eat food.

1) In the verse, Isa a.s is categorized with other messengers before him who passed away
2) In the verse, Isa a.s with his mother has been said to used to eat. Someone who used to eat, means they do not eat anymore.
3) Someone who doesnt eat cannot remain alive with physical body. Only being whose 'alive' and will remain alive without food is Allah alone. To say that Jesus a.s doesnt eat and is still alive is shirk.

One must see 2 criteria Allah himself is putting infront of Christians to show them that Jesus cannot be God. Had it been only the condition of 'eating', then Allah needed not to say that 1) he is just a messenger 2) that messengers like him have passed away.

PS: also, the word is 'khatam' not 'khatim'. If used Khatim, it would give you different meaning. Correct word is 'Khatam'

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

The standard tafsir of those verses are the correct meaning and hence your tafsir is not … those words above are not my words at all … They are the words of YOUR PROMISED MESSIAH … Mirza Ghulam Ahmed …

http://www.alislam.org/egazette/eGazette-March2008.pdf

Page 6 …

To be honest … it sounds like he has taken those words from some other place … You see in this link:

The Holy Quran and the Hadith section … we have this:

***“One of the principal causes of people going astray in this age is that in the eyes of most ***
***people the greatness of the Holy Qur’an no longer prevails. One group of Muslims has ***
***become the follower of misleading philosophy. They seek to decide every matter by ***
***reason. They claim that the highest arbiter available to man for the settlement of ***
***disputes is reason. When they find that the existence of Gabriel, Azrael and other angels ***
***that are mentioned in religious books, and the existence of heaven and hell as is ***
***established in the Holy Qur’an, cannot be proved by reason, they immediately reject ***
them and begin to have recourse to flimsy explanations.

It sounds like your promised messiah is talking about his own followers … or did he really write that? Isn’t your “eat food” thing a flimsy argument that Isa (AS) has died?

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

It seems you only read what portion of my post you like to read and ignore the rest.

Islam is the final religion of Allah. It is a living religion. Allah says in Quran who ever lie on his name, Allah will not help spread his word, will give them defeat and open up their lies to people.

When you bring these questions.. you think you’re questioning me ? No. You’re infact questioning your own belief on Muhammad PBUH. This is the evidence that your scholars give to non muslims that if he was a false prophet nauzubillah, then Allah had not made his mission succeed, neither will their followers increase in numbers. Kindly look at one of the hadith in which some king ask these kind of questions to sahabah and said that these are signs of a true prophet.

Joseph Smith and Sai Baba claims are different. Since there is no faith to be born after Islam, therefore they are liars. It is simple. We have criteria in front of us. A person who claims prophethood must claim in accordance to Quran and ahadith. If you independently claim prophethood, then we r more than certain he is a liar. There is also another evidence that Sai BaBa’s claim is ridiculous since he died and God does not die.

its been more than 110 years since Hazrat Ahmad(as) came. See with your eyes the progress of this jamaat. See with your eyes who Allah is with. See and let your mind realize how his mission is successful. Anyone you can show who is a Muslim, in accordance to Quran and ahadith.. being this successful ?

Let time tell you who increases in numbers. If He a.s continue to progress further, then you have no choice but to believe in him as a true prophet.. the same condition in which you accepted the holy prophet Muhammad PBUH.

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

For a surety, asking for reasons for everything leads one to reject the basic fundamentals of the beliefs. We on the other hand argue based on Quran and ahadith. I’m merely trying to stop you from committing shirk. What is said in Quran is what I AM a true believer of. I have never questioned heaven, hell, existence of angels etc. What i’m questioning is the belief that you associate to Islam which is wrong!. Your responsibility is to show me from Quran and explain me where i’m making mistakes in translating and explaining the verses. The standard is Quran. If its in Quran, i will believe. Just saying that this is the belief and accept it with close eyes is jahaalat.

I have said it million times that our reasoning is that this is what Quran says.. unless you show me another verse of Quran proving me wrong.. since Quran cannot have contradictions. I’m talking from Quran and hadith. NOT questioning things written in Quran but pointing to you your interpretation contradicting other verses of Quran.

ps: still waiting for a reasonable answer. I’m more than open to talk to you about what Hz Ahmad (as) wrote and what he meant ((( keep in mind if you do, you are indirectly judging him if he infact is a suitable candidate in which you can believe..if this is not your intention, then no matter what he said or didnt say..its of no interest to you.. )))..but thats not my concern in this thread.

Give me an answer and you have your way and i have mine.

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Perhaps you missed it ...

I quoted your promised messiah about the 4 ways the Qur'an is preserved ... "According to this promise Allah (SWT) safeguarded His word in four ways. "

You thought I wrote it from myself and you said ..."**Those 4 categories of 'safeguarding' holy word is of your own. Allah said that he will safeguard Quran. "

**Are you telling me that your promised messiah is wrong?

Nah! You just want to confront me ... because you can see that what I had written demonstrates that the age old authentic interpretations are amongst the 4 ways the Qur'an has been preserved according to your promised messiah ... You will never believe our scholars, but at least believe your own promised messiah ... He is telling you that our interpretations are correct ... But this presents a dilemma now ... if you accept what he says then you need to compromise your stance on the death of Isa (AS) and if you reject what he says then you are saying your interpretation is better than his ...

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

The prophet Muhammad (SAW) is the Seal of Prophets --- No more prophethoods to be bestowed ... simple - don't say a prophet will not come ... just say no more prophethoods will be bestowed ... keep it easy !!!

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

mr.popat we are NOT waiting for him, we have the deen HE Alaihis salam has. Allah SWT through his messenger SAW has told us he will come back but we will be present as an already believing ummat, but we are not waiting for him.

as for takfir on you: the ‘pak hadis’ you or he threw in the waste bin is one reason you are kafirs.

not even all of mirzas followers believe he was a prophet or even claimed to be yet you are argueing your continuation of prophethood like the economy of qadian/rabwa depends on it. hmmm ive come across something similar before in another religion. the mahdi sales (tax collection) have always been good for the chiefs and it provides a great incentive to form a cult with a motivated leadership. im onto this line of thinking at the moment
The Lahori Ahmadi View