Destiny of a false prophet?

Society Religion & Philosophy
61

was not Mirza claimed to be a follower and mujaddid of Propeht Mohammed :saw:'s Sharia??? If he did then my baby…its in shariate Mohammadi to perform Hajj. How come a messiah who claims to be a mujaddid didn’t perform hajj???

Mosses came some 4000 years before Mohammed :saw: so it doesn’t apply on him. Fardiyat of Hajj is different than what Arabs pagans used to do. Hajj is Fard on all Muslims who can afford it, once in a life time. I think this point is very easy to understand by even a non-muslim.

62

[quote]
It wasn’t even a ritual until Prophet Mohammad came along,
[/quote]

incorrect.. Haj was an existing ritual.. many of today's rites of pilgrimage resemble those that were carried out in the pre-Islamic event.

63

PA, I meant it wasn't a required ritual before it was ordained. Of course Kaba has been place of worship since pre-Ibrahamic times, it was a temple of pagans. The only thing that changed was that the statutes are now replaced by braindead molvis.

Smoothy...where in the Quran is it said that all Prophets of Allah are required to perform Haj. Show us. My baby.

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To some extent, the Hajj is a symbolic journey, there are things that are down physically, which are a reflection on the spiritual side. One of the great favors on Messiahe Maud :as:, was that after seeing in a kasshf, that he was embraced by the Holy Prophet , the doors of divine revelation were opened to him. They were poured into the dark, dry spiritual society, where mullah’s showed that the door to revelation was shut, and they flourished life into the living society of Islam, just like Zam zam water has done in the desert.

Going around something, like the earth focusing its centre on the sun, shows that the earth is tied to its field, and in the same way, when we walk around the kaaba, our energy, spiritually, through physical deeds is tied to Allah.

In the same way, the laps between marawah and safa are reminders of constant search of water, which is again purity blessings, through revelation, to reach the upper state of man, and attain a closest possible relationship with Allah. And ofcourse, the final sacrifice increases our humbleness, and desire to give, and thus makes us less selfish. In most ways, the journey is a symbolic one.

But remember, there was a time that the Holy Prophet could not go either, in this case here, we have the fathwa-ey-kufr, which prevent us from going in there. Hajj is only permitted when there is no danger etc. as there is in this case.

If you see the above, the Promised Messiah was unable to travel due to the conditions, but he had done all of the sacrifices, and attained closeness to all of the virtues, far greater than most Hajj goers, as he had done it in the truest and purest form, as Allah had opened the doors of blessing and revelations on him.

I pray that may Allah allow us to see the day when we can freely walk in and do Hajj. Ameen!

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Degas: *
All know that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) could write or read..
[/QUOTE]

  • Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. (Koran, 7:57)

All know except god?

66

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sadya: *

I have no idea from which book Maulana Ludhianvi got this quote. But I can't believe he would make that up.
[/QUOTE]

Dear Sadya,

I just got to read this thread, and your reference to Ludhianvi Saheb's booklet. I have read the booklet and I personally think parts of it are so vulgar that if I post it on here the moderators will delete my post. There are some parts in the booklet where Ludhianvi Saheb has made charges of fornication and adultry on a few people. This is an act for Allah has applied the Hudood punishment, and Ludhianvi Saheb should get 80 Lashes. I agree to the concerns that you have after reading the booklet, but please do not forget that you have only seen one side of the picture. Things are not as easy as you have been shown. There is another side to the issue, which has been banned for you to see. Ahmadis are not allowed to publish or preach their point of view by the penal code of Pakistan. Ask yourself a question, if Ahmedis are so conveniently wrong, why did the need emerge to ban them from presenting their point of view? If Ludhianvi Saheb ties somebody's hands and legs with a rope, and then fight with him, its obvious he is going to win, but it is also obvious that he fears losing the fight otherwise, and is a coward.

I don't mean to sound mean to you, please forgive me if something I say sounds harsh to you, but the words that I use here will be the politest one can use for Ludhianvi Saheb.

-== Can Ludhianvi Saheb Forge Lies? ==-

You have said:

[quote]
I have no idea from which book Maulana Ludhianvi got this quote. But I can't believe he would make that up.
[/quote]

My darling sister, you seem to be unaware of the Deobandi beliefs, the founders of which do not consider it a sin to forge lies to defame their opponents. Molana Rahseed Gangohi, whom all Deobandis including Ludhianvi Saheb follow and hold in high regard says:

[quote]
It is alright to lie in order to establish faith (1)
[/quote]

Molvi Hussain Ahmed Madni, the Shaykhul Islaam of the Deobandis including Ludhianvi Saheb, says:

[quote]
At times, to lie becomes farz and wajib (2)
[/quote]

Then, how can you say that Ludhianvi Saheb can not forge a lie to denounce the Ahmadiyya belief? My advice to you is to never ever trust these Molanas about whom the prophet had said, "Their ‘Ulama’ will be the worst of creatures under the canopy of the heavens. Evil plots will originate from them and to them will they return." (3)

-==Qadian in the Koran==-

Ludhianvi Saheb, in the booklet you mentioned, has said Mirza Saheb has added a new verse to the Koran. In other books he also says that this verse means that Ahmadis believe that the Koran was descended in Qadian. This is not the case however. In the original book which contains this, Mirza Saheb explicity and clearly describes it as a Kashaf that he saw. You were taught only the 'verse' that Ludhianvi Saheb alleges Mirza Saheb to have added to the Koran, and not the original passage which does not call it a verse of the Koran, but describes a dream that Mirza Saheb saw, in which he heard those words. I have scanned the original passage for you:

[thumb=C]qadianitk.JPG[/thumb]

Reading this will make it obvious to you, there this passage contains no words that suggest that Mirza Saheb take this 'verse' to be from the Koran, and there is no mention of any such belief as Koran being descended in Qadian. Why should this not lead us Ahmedis to believe that Ludhianvi Saheb has intentionally forged a lie? How can you defend his lie?

-==Additions to Surah Rahman==-

Ludhianvi Saheb continuing the Deobandi tradition of forging lies, has come up with a blatant and vulgar lie by saying the Mirza Saheb has added a verse to Surah Rahman. He did not give a reference to the original book intentionally, to make sure those who read him do not get to check the original passage and find out his forgery and deception.

Dear Sadiya, the phrase that Ludhianvi Saheb has come up with, ''shaatan tazabihan'', as it occurs originally in two books, Baraheen e Ahmadiyya, and Tazkaratush Shahadatain does not precede the verse of Surah Rahman that was pointed out by Ludhianvi Saheb. In fact, if you look at the original passage I have scanned for you, you will see that no mention of Surah Rahman or the verse mentioned by Ludhianvi Saheb has ever been made. This phrase was claimed by Mirza Saheb to be a 'prophecy' of the incident of two prominent Muslim scholars of Afghanistan being killed brutally after they changed they embraced the Ahmadiyya belief. Here is the original passage:

[thumb=C]2goats1.JPG[/thumb]

Now tell me, do you find the verse that was mentioned by Ludhianvi Saheb? Now from the same book, a few pages later, I have scanned for you the description of this phrase as given by Mirza Saheb:

[thumb=C]2goats2.JPG[/thumb]

Now tell me, where does it mention Surah Rahman?????? Where is the verse of Surah Rahman that was mentioned by Ludhianvi the liar???? I really do advise you again to stay away from these Molanas. They are liars and they consider it compulsory on themselves to lie!

-== ** Molana's own Faith** ==-

Molana Yusuf Ludhianvi is a popular and renouned Deobandi leader. He gives a fatwa that declares Ahmedis to be Kafirs. If you think such a fatwa makes a community kafir, then why do you also not believe in the following fatwas against Deobandis themselves?

If you follow a Deobandi Molana, You become a Kafir according to the scholars of Bareli school of thought:

[quote]
They are completely Kafir and Apostates, and their Apostacy to Kufr has reached such a critical degree, that whosoever doubts in their kufr and apostacy, is a Kafir and apostate himself! (4)
[/quote]

The Ulema of Harmain Shareefain literally swear at Deobandi scholars:

[quote]
All of them are Apostates, and their all the group is out of the nation of Islam. They are Khabees leaders of Faithlessness. Worse than every Khabees, Mufsid, and stubborn. Fajir, who, due to their misleadings, are about to be meaner (Kameena Tar) than all Kafirs. (5)
[/quote]

The list could go on and on and never end. The point is, these Molanas are liars and full of evil! Just like Molana Ludhianvi has called Ahmedis as Kafirs, other Molanas call him Kafir too. This was exactly foretold by the prophet in the Hadith I mentioned earlier: "Evil plots will originate from them and to them will they return."

-== The Return of Evil Plots ==-

While Ludhianvi Saheb was busy giving Fatwas about the Kufr of Ahmedis, and declaring that it is Wajib to kill them in an Islamic state, he himself, in the year 2000, got killed by a militant group from within the Sunnis, who opposed his views and thought it was Molana himself who was Wajibul Qatal!

"Evil plots will originate from them and to them will they return."

References:

  1. Rasheed Ahmed Gangohi - *Fataawa-e-Rasheediya, Page 460 *
  2. Molvi Hussain Ahmed Madni - Naqsh-e-Hayaat, Page 625
  3. Mishkat - Vol. 1, Kithabul Ilm - 3rd part, Page: 121, Hadith No: 276 [79]
  4. The Scholars of Bareli - Reference: * Daily Aafaq, 18th November 1952*
  5. Ahmed Raza Khan - Hassamul Harmain, Page 73 to 76
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To 'Pagal Insaan'

Assalam O Alaikum

beautiful reply! Jazakallah :biggthumb

Waalaikum Us Salam

68

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fatehahmad: *
To 'Pagal Insaan'

Assalam O Alaikum

beautiful reply! Jazakallah :biggthumb

Waalaikum Us Salam
[/QUOTE]

Sir, thank you for the compliment. ** ﺍﺰﺠﻟﺍ ﻦﺴﺣﺍ ﻭ ﻪﻠﻟﺍ ﮎﺍﺰﺟ **

It will look beautiful to us because it is according to our beliefs :) I don't know if it is good enough to clarify the issue to Sadya.

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Only knowing that Ludyanwi Sahib wrote the book, I knew that it could be only lie and nothing else.
Br Paaga| |nsaan really good job you did in this matter :mash:
:biggthumb

and about Ludhyanwi Sahib I can only :smack:

70

Pagal Insaan,

thank you for taking the time to reply. I don't know how many times I've asked this question before without getting any normal reply. So I appreciate your effort. :-)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Paaga| |nsaan: *

I have read the booklet and I personally think parts of it are so vulgar that if I post it on here the moderators will delete my post. There are some parts in the booklet where Ludhianvi Saheb has made charges of fornication and adultry on a few people.

Why vulgar? There are no 'details' or dirty language, the language used in the booklet on this topic is 'clean'.
As it seems, different people, a number of times, have not only blamed Mirza sahib, but other family members too (like his brother) of different kinds of immorality. Why would people lie about something so bad, so many times, so many different people.

I agree to the concerns that you have after reading the booklet, but please do not forget that you have only seen one side of the picture. Things are not as easy as you have been shown. There is another side to the issue, which has been banned for you to see.

Partly true, I don't know that much about the different Islamic groups and sekts. That's why I"m trying to find out what they all represent. I've only been thaught so far the basic Islam. I'm trying to find out now more about it. That's why I read everything I can get my hands on. And the discussions here on GupShup are very interesting! They help understanding why people believe in certain ways. And I'm sorry, but so far, to me Ahmadi's haven't been convincing.

If Ludhianvi Saheb ties somebody's hands and legs with a rope, and then fight with him, its obvious he is going to win, but it is also obvious that he fears losing the fight otherwise, and is a coward.

I don't know if this is true, but I've heard that Ahmadies in Pakistan still do a lot of propaganda, especially students in universities, colleges, etc.
Anyway, I don't have the booklet at hands now, but didn't Maulana Sahib answer a challenge from Mirza Tahir Qadiani himself? And from what I remember, Mirza Tahir made up excuses when Maulana sahib did finally reach the place for the Mubhala challenge to not go on with it.

I don't mean to sound mean to you, please forgive me if something I say sounds harsh to you, but the words that I use here will be the politest one can use for Ludhianvi Saheb.

Don't worry about sounding mean, this is a discussion, not tea time.
As long as you don't use bad language, fine with me. :-)

you seem to be unaware of the Deobandi beliefs, the founders of which do not consider it a sin to forge lies to defame their opponents.

I don't know anything about Deobandi beliefs (didn't even know that this Maulana sahib was a deobandi), but as far as I know, don't all muslims believe that you should only lie in a matter of life and death, to save someones life or something?
I don't agree with lying to 'win' a discussion, if you want to proove you're right, it shouldn't be done with lies, but based on facts.

My advice to you is to never ever trust these Molanas

I don't follow one particular Maulana, I'm not even familiar with them. I do however read different books, and try to find out, if what I'm reading is true and if it makes any sense, before I believe/follow it.

My advice to you is to never ever trust these Molanas

Should I then run after Ahmadi Molanas? Or you guys don't have any?

Reading this will make it obvious to you, there this passage contains no words that suggest that Mirza Saheb take this 'verse' to be from the Koran, and there is no mention of any such belief as Koran being descended in Qadian.

Oke, thanks for pointing that one out.

Where is the verse of Surah Rahman that was mentioned by Ludhianvi the liar???? I really do advise you again to stay away from these Molanas. They are liars and they consider it compulsory on themselves to lie!

Allright then. My Urdu is not super, but I got it. I guess then in these two cases Maulana Ludhianvi sahib must have used Ahmadi techniques.... Thinking by convincing people with the same kinds of special techniques, Mirza Sahib himself has used...

If you think such a fatwa makes a community kafir, then why do you also not believe in the following fatwas against Deobandis themselves?

I have no idea of any such fatwa. but no, I don't believe in all fatwa's, use of fatwa's seems to be 'in fashion' to proove one is right nowadays...

I don't follow any Maulana (at this point in my life anyway, don't know about the future), but I try to read and understand as much as I can, and when I can't find answers myself, I then look at what the scholars thoughts are on that particular issue. If it's genuine and makes sense to me, comes from authentic sources, then I follow it.
I asked my Dad what our family is, and we are 'wahabi' (spelling?). But my family doesn't follow one particular maulana either as far as I know.

Mirza sahib still doesn't make sense to me. From what I've read so far here especially, just does not convince me, despite these two points which turned out wrong, when I go through the threads, I read with open mind, and Ahmadiyyat still doesn't make good sense to me. Too many contradictions. And misinterpretations.

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Following is our faith as what our Promised Massiah has described in his own words. Tell me what doesn’t make sense to you. As far as other objections go, one can argue that kuffar in the lifetime of Huzur (SAW) didn’t recognize him (SAW) too. Was that the false of Huzur(SAW)? No obviously. Its because they didn’t want to recognize him because of political/social/monetory reasons.

Our faith

  • 1 -
    The five pillars of Islam constitute our Creed. The Revelation of God viz., the Quran which we are commanded to hold firmly on, that indeed we hold firmly on. God be pleased with Umar: Like him we have the words ‘sufficient unto us is the Book of God’ constantly on our lips. In case of conflict and disagreement between the Hadith and the Quran we follow Hazrat Ayesha (God be pleased with her) and choose the Quran, especially in the historical texts treated by all schools as above abrogation. And we believe that there is no deity, no one worthy of worship, but only Almighty Allah that our Master Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa (peace and blessings of God be upon him), is His Rasul and Khatamal-Anbiya. And we believe that angels exist, that the resurrection of bodies after death is true, that the Day of Reckoning is also true, that Djanna and Gehenna are also true. We believe that every thing taught about these matters by the Holy Quran and the Holy Prophet is true. We believe that he who seeks to subtract an iota from this or to add an iota to this - the Shariah of Islam and also he who makes light of the statutes and practices of Islam is devoid of belief, a denier of Islam. We counsel our Jamaat to put true and sincere faith in the Holy Kalima, La Illaha Ill-Allah, Muhammad al-Rasul-Allah, to live and die by it, also to believe in all prophets and in all books, the truth of which is sanctioned by the Quran; to observe in letter and in spirit the Fasts, Prayers, Zakat and Pilgrimage and all prescriptions and prohibitions laid down by Almighty Allah and His Prophet. We counsel them in short that their belief should include all beliefs and all rules of conduct agreed upon unanimously by early Muslims, that is, all matters accepted as part of Islam by the consensus of Ahl-i-Sunna. There is no option. And we hold heaven and earth as witness that this is our creed and this is our faith.

(Ayyamal Sulh pg. 86-87)

  • 2 -
    We are Musalmans. We believe in the One God without a partner and in the Kalima, La Illah Ill-Allah. We believe in the Book of God, the Quran, in His Messenger Muhammad (peace on him and God’s blessings) the Khatam Al-Anbiya. We believe in angels, the resurrection, hell and paradise. We observe the prescribed prayers and the fast. We turn to the Qibla for prayers and forbid ourselves what is forbidden by God and His Prophet and permit ourselves what is permitted. We add not a thing to the Sharia, nor subtract any thing from it. The Sharia is above change. Whatever has come down to us from the Holy Prophet (on whom peace and God’s blessings), all that we accept, whether we understand or not and whether we can unravel its secrets and real meaning or not. We are believers with the Grace of God, and strict monotheist Muslims.

(Nur al-Haq I, pg. 5)

For detail on our beliefs, please visit: The Promised Messiah’s Beliefs

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Sadya, as for you to understand, following are our conditions of ba'ait (or initiation). Can you give me any condition that falls against the Islam of Huzur (SAW)?

The initiate shall solemnly promise:

I That he/she shall abstain from Shirk (association of any partner with God) right up to the day of his/her death.
II That he/she shall keep away from falsehood, fornication, adultery, trespasses of the eye, debauchery, dissipation, cruelty, dishonesty, mischief and rebellion; and will not permit himself/herself to be carried away by passions, however strong they might be.

III That he/she shall regularly offer the five daily prayers in accordance with the commandments of God and the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him); and shall try his/her best to be regular in offering the Tahajud (pre-dawn supererogatory prayers) and invoking Darood (blessings) on the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him); that he/she shall make it his/her daily routine to ask forgiveness for his/her sins, to remember the bounties of God and to praise and glorify Him.

IV That under the impulse of any passions, he/she shall cause no harm whatsoever to the creatures of Allah in general, and Muslims in particular, neither by his/her tongue nor by his/her hands nor by any other means.

V That he/she shall remain faithful to God in all circumstances of life, in sorrow and happiness, adversity and prosperity, in felicity and trial; and shall in all conditions remain resigned to the decree of Allah and keep himself/herself ready to face all kinds of indignities and sufferings in His way and shall never turn away from it at the onslaught of any misfortune; on the contrary, he/she shall march forward.

VI That he/she shall refrain from following un-islamic customs and lustful inclinations, and shall completely submit himself/herself to the authority of the Holy Quran; and shall make the Word of God and the Sayings of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) the guiding principle in every walk of his/her life.

VII That he/she shall entirely give up pride and vanity and shall pass all his/her life in humbleness, cheerfulness, forbearance and meekness.

VIII That he/she shall hold faith, the honor of faith, and the cause of Islam dearer to him/her than his/her life, wealth, honor, children and all other dear ones.

IX That he/she shall keep himself/herself occupied in the service of God's creatures for His sake only; and shall endeavor to benefit mankind to the best of his/her God-given abilities and powers.

X That he/she shall enter into a bond of brotherhood with this humble servant of God, pledging obedience to me in everything good, for the sake of Allah, and remain faithful to it till the day of his/her death; that he/she shall exert such a high devotion in the observance of this bond as is not to be found in any other worldly relationship and connections demanding devoted dutifulness.

(Translated from Ishtehar Takmeel-e-Tabligh, January 12, 1889)

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Degas: *

I guess ur stuck up with local religions that are limited with limited range.. Islam and christianity are universal religions that spread all over the globe as their messege is above race, creed, or geographical limits!
[/QUOTE]

why not god selcted chinese prophet ? he could have got the biggest
country in terms of population.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *

why not god selcted chinese prophet ? he could have got the biggest
country in terms of population.
[/QUOTE]

I will again say.. ur try to evaluate monolistic religions with religions that believe in more than one God.. u can have God for rain, sun, lightening.. and humans can become God themselves.. but Islam believes in One God -all poweful.. humans are just one of the creations...prophets are sent to transmit God's message and China hasfair share of prophets too - Budha is one as many muslims believe.. Saad ibn Abi Waqqas (ra), one of the companions of Prophet Muhammad (s) in 650 C.E went to China and spreaded Islam there.. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) used to mention China..

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zakiahmed: *
Sadya, as for you to understand, following are our conditions of ba'ait (or initiation). Can you give me any condition that falls against the Islam of Huzur (SAW)?

The initiate shall solemnly promise:

I That he/she shall abstain from Shirk (association of any partner with God) right up to the day of his/her death.
II That he/she shall keep away from falsehood, fornication, adultery, trespasses of the eye, debauchery, dissipation, cruelty, dishonesty, mischief and rebellion; and will not permit himself/herself to be carried away by passions, however strong they might be.

III That he/she shall regularly offer the five daily prayers in accordance with the commandments of God and the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him); and shall try his/her best to be regular in offering the Tahajud (pre-dawn supererogatory prayers) and invoking Darood (blessings) on the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him); that he/she shall make it his/her daily routine to ask forgiveness for his/her sins, to remember the bounties of God and to praise and glorify Him.

IV That under the impulse of any passions, he/she shall cause no harm whatsoever to the creatures of Allah in general, and Muslims in particular, neither by his/her tongue nor by his/her hands nor by any other means.

V That he/she shall remain faithful to God in all circumstances of life, in sorrow and happiness, adversity and prosperity, in felicity and trial; and shall in all conditions remain resigned to the decree of Allah and keep himself/herself ready to face all kinds of indignities and sufferings in His way and shall never turn away from it at the onslaught of any misfortune; on the contrary, he/she shall march forward.

VI That he/she shall refrain from following un-islamic customs and lustful inclinations, and shall completely submit himself/herself to the authority of the Holy Quran; and shall make the Word of God and the Sayings of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) the guiding principle in every walk of his/her life.

VII That he/she shall entirely give up pride and vanity and shall pass all his/her life in humbleness, cheerfulness, forbearance and meekness.

VIII That he/she shall hold faith, the honor of faith, and the cause of Islam dearer to him/her than his/her life, wealth, honor, children and all other dear ones.

IX That he/she shall keep himself/herself occupied in the service of God's creatures for His sake only; and shall endeavor to benefit mankind to the best of his/her God-given abilities and powers.

So far, I couldn't find anything against Islamic law as far as I know.

X That he/she shall enter into a bond of brotherhood with this humble servant of God, pledging obedience to me in everything good, for the sake of Allah, and remain faithful to it till the day of his/her death; that he/she shall exert such a high devotion in the observance of this bond as is not to be found in any other worldly relationship and connections demanding devoted dutifulness.

Who is meant here, by 'this humble servant of God' , Mirza Sahib? Or did I misunderstand? In the Quran it is mentioned several times that Mohammed is Allah's last prophet and we should follow him. It's not mentioned in the Quran that a new prophet will come to guide us and we should follow that one now. Only that Iesa (pbuh) will return, but clearly Mirza isn't Isa (pbuh) and so I find no reason to accept Mirza sahib as a prophet of Allah. If that was the case, wouldn't Prophet Muhammad (saw) have said that between himself and Isa's (pbuh) return there would be another prophet to guide us?
Also, what I read in an old thread, about Jesus (pbuh) being dead, I can't believe that interpretation either. Call me stupid, nadaan, whatever, but to me, Jesus (pbuh) is up there alive with Allah. If Mirza Sahib wouldn't have announced himself a prophet, messenger or whatever of Allah, I still might not have agreed with all his ideas, but at least respected him a lot.

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It is a wee bit convenient to adopt principles and principals of other religions that have already existed for 1000's of years and claim them to be part of your own.

Now Buddha is a prophet too and he was muslim. Jesus was muslim too. Wah! If that is the case, logic and trend would suggest that the prophecies would continue and thereby whether it is Mirza or Inglebert Humperdink, they are/can be prophets too.

77

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Degas: *

I will again say.. ur try to evaluate monolistic religions with religions that believe in more than one God.. u can have God for rain, sun, lightening.. and humans can become God themselves.. but Islam believes in One God -all poweful.. humans are just one of the creations...prophets are sent to transmit God's message and China hasfair share of prophets too - Budha is one as many muslims believe.. Saad ibn Abi Waqqas (ra), one of the companions of Prophet Muhammad (s) in 650 C.E went to China and spreaded Islam there.. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) used to mention China..
[/QUOTE]

you misunderstood my question. why muhamed was not born in china since it has the largset popualtion at that time and now
you can add india too . are you saying god randomly selected the prophet . it would have better god selected biggest country to get his message to largest population or where largest population live.

78

There are two theories RVIKZ. Eiher god is really bad at mathematics or that that message was meant for people living in hat time in that place.

79

The reason is God is not a politician to gather votes or followers.. God doesnt need us - we need God.. the mesage is out there for ever and anyone can seek that..

80

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Degas: *
The reason is God is not a politician to gather votes or followers.. God doesnt need us - we need God.. the mesage is out there for ever and anyone can seek that..
[/QUOTE]

accordint to christianity it is other way around

In the Bible God "draws near", "comes down" and seeks after us in order to enter into an intimate relationship with us. The whole Bible is the story of God seeking man.

In the first chapters of the Bible about the creation and the fall of mankind we read that after the first sin/disobedience of Adam and Eve they are plagued by their conscience and try to hide from God. God comes to them in the garden and calls out to them, "Where are you?" (Genesis 3:9)

Man is on the run before God because he knows that he is guilty before God. However, God comes and seeks us and wants to reestablish a relationship of mutual love. It is God who takes all necessary steps to make this possible again. That is the story of the Bible from the first to the last book where we finally read about the new heaven and the new earth: "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people and God himself will be with them and be their God." (Revelation 21:3)