Destiny of a false prophet?

Society Religion & Philosophy
81

Sadya, thanx for taking time to read my reply and writing up a detailed reply.

>Why vulgar? There are no ‘details’ or dirty language, the language used in the booklet on this topic is ‘clean’.

  • Dear Sadya, the booklet has clear & explicit allegations of fornication, adultry and homosexuality on Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmood, and accuses his wife of adultry, without proving any of the charges in the court. The koran has unambiguous teachings in this regard:
    “And those who accuse honourable women but bring not four witnesses, scourge them (with) eighty stripes and never (afterward) accept their testimony - They indeed are evil-doers.” (Koran, 24:4)

>Why would people lie about something so bad, so many times, so many different people.

  • “And if you obey most of those on earth, they will lead you astray from Allah’s way. They follow nothing but mere conjecture, and they do nothing but lie.”(Koran, 6:116)
    Only 1/5th of the population of the world are Muslims. The rest of them have serious allegations against prophet Mohammad. Does that mean they are right?
    Also, don’t forget that only those books are allowed to be published in Pakistan which have allegations against Mirza Saheb. The publication of those books which refute those allegations, or praise Mirza Saheb are banned from publication. That is why you don’t get to hear the other side of the story.
    The two false allegations that I replied to in my previous post, are made by many many people too, but now you know they’re false. What stops you from believing the rest of the allegations may be false too?

>I’ve heard that Ahmadies in Pakistan still do a lot of propaganda

  • The Penal Code of Pakistan states, “Any person of the Qadiani group or the Lahori group (who call themselves ‘Ahmadis’ or by any other name.) who, directly or indirectly, poses himself as a Muslims, or calls, or refers to, his faith as Islam, or preaches or propagates his faith, or invites other to accept his faith, by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representations or in any manner whatsoever outrages the religious feelings of Muslims shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years and shall also be liable to fine.”
    You tell me, how does this law leave any opportunity for propaganda? This is not all, the blasphmey law, sates that, “Use of the words ‘Mohammad’ in the banners or badges worn by any Ahmadi amounts to defiling the sacred name of Holy Prophet.” The punishment for this is death!

>Mirza Tahir made up excuses when Maulana sahib did finally reach the place for the Mubhala challenge to not go on with it.

  • Hun, you’ve only read the booklets of Molana Ludhianvi against Mirza Taher Ahmed, and have not read the replies by Mirza Taher Ahmed to Molana Ludhianvi. Just like Ludhianvi Saheb accuses Mirza Taher Ahmed of running away, Mirza Taher Ahmed accuses Ludhianvi Saheb of running away as well. There are two sides to the story. You have a right to disagree to Ahmedis, but the fact that you have listened to only one side, impairs your judgment.
    And my replies to two of the allegations made by Ludhianvi Saheb, should make it obvious to you, that Ludhianvi Saheb may be wrong in some things he says, and therefore it is necessary for you to read the other point of view too.

>And I’m sorry, but so far, to me Ahmadi’s haven’t been convincing.

  • If you’ve read my posts on this forum, you probably might have noticed that I do not think convincing someone is the point. Its about respecting someone’s beliefs. With my reply to your questions, I did not mean to convince you of the truth of the Ahmadiyyat, I only wanted to let you know that everything a Molana says is not always perfectly true. The real thing is that you should understand the fact, that we base our beliefs on logic too, and if in some cases, Molana Ludhianvi has the upper hand on us in an argument, there are other times when we have the upper hand too! I just want to say that Ahmedis may be wrong, but it is not as simple. There are always two sides to an argument, and they both have an argument.
    Just think, when we Ahmedis, who have read the books of Mirza Saheb, read these lies forged by Molana Ludhianvi, will it convince us of his point, or will it repell us from it?

>As long as you don’t use bad language, fine with me. :slight_smile:

  • I won’t. I am not a Molana :hehe:

>I don’t follow one particular Maulana, I’m not even familiar with them.

  • Yeah but remember, you said, since Molana Ludhianvi has accused Mirza Saheb of making additions to the Koran, then he can’t be lying! And now we know that he was. So its not as easy as it sounds.

>Should I then run after Ahmadi Molanas? Or you guys don’t have any?

  • Have you seen one on here yet? :slight_smile: A ‘Molana’ or a ‘Molvi’ is a state of being. They can be born anywhere, in any sect at any time, even without beards. We probably may have some in the Ahmedis too, but we don’t like them.

>I guess then in these two cases Maulana Ludhianvi sahib must have used Ahmadi techniques…

  • Aha! :slight_smile: lol thats not fair, if we lie, we’re bad, if Ludhianvi Saheb lies, even then its we who’s bad! :hehe: Thats foul play! :nono: Anyway, maybe some day you should post up some lies that Ahmedis tell and enlighten me? Coz otherwise I may think they don’t tell any.

>I asked my Dad what our family is, and we are ‘wahabi’ (spelling?).

  • You spelt it correct! :biggthumb Deobandis are Wahabis. Molana Ludhianvi was a Wahabi Deobandi too. And you have seen with your own eyes, that just as people think we are Kafirs, they also think your sect is Kafir too. Here is another one, by Molvi Bhaagalpuri of Ahle Sunnat:

Note the points I marked:

(1) This Fatwa thinks that if all ‘Baatil’ sects of Islam, and they include Ahmadis among them, join together, they have not caused as much harm to Islam than the Wahabi Deobandis alone! This statement practically presents Wahabis as worse than Ahmedis!

(2) Notice, that all over this forum, people say that allow Ahmedis to have their own opinion and religion, but they only hate us because we pose ourselves and muslims, and decieve the common people. Now in this Fatwa you have seen that Wahabis themselves have been accused of doing exactly the same thing!

>Mirza sahib still doesn’t make sense to me.

  • And Molana Ludhianvi doesn’t make any sense to me :slight_smile: And we’re both Muslims nevertheless, because we are sincerly dedicated to Islam and Allah, and read everything with an open mind, and then choose what we think is the best. I respect you for your sincerity to Islan, and so I expect you to respect me for mine too. I repeat, my intention here is not to convince you to become Ahmedi, my only intention is to show to you that we have some logic too, and we are sincere too, just like you, and if people call us Kafir, that doesn’t mean we become one, because they call you Kafir too when youre not.
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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Paaga| |nsaan: *

The two false allegations that I replied to in my previous post, are made by many many people too, but now you know they're false. What stops you from believing the rest of the allegations may be false too?

I don't know if other allegations, even of the same nature are false too. These two were proven wrong by you. Oké. Agreed there.
But what about Mirza sahib's own contradicting sayings? And prophecies that never came true? He lied so many times, how could I believe that ALL allegations against such a person are untrue?

You tell me, how does this law leave any opportunity for propaganda?

In Pakistan it must be difficult, but outside of Pakistan it's not. In many other countries everyone is free to do anything in his religion. I know Ahmadies here who sell their books and sometimes give them for free to people. they tried to convert Turqish and Maroc people, some of my friends, were shocked to find out that they were in fact following another 'prophet' and some of my Turqish friends thought that all Pakis were followers of Mirza sahib. There was a programme about Ahmadies here on tv few weeks ago. They have their own magazine. They have enough publicity outside of Paksitan.

- Just like Ludhianvi Saheb accuses Mirza Taher Ahmed of running away, Mirza Taher Ahmed accuses Ludhianvi Saheb of running away as well. There are two sides to the story.

Yes, I know. That's what the booklet also tells. There is a letter in it from the secretary in fact of Mirza Tahir sahib claiming that Maulana sahib was the one backing out.
this booklet was a reply to the allegations of Mirza Tahir sahib.

You have a right to disagree to Ahmedis, but the fact that you have listened to only one side, impairs your judgment.

That's why I asked you guys, what about those additions? If I find something again, I will ask again. Of course there are always two sides two everything.

And my replies to two of the allegations made by Ludhianvi Saheb, should make it obvious to you, that Ludhianvi Saheb may be wrong in some things he says, and therefore it is necessary for you to read the other point of view too.

True, but we're all humans and can make mistakes. I'm trying to be openminded, but the only thing that keep nagging me about Mirza sahib is his claim to prophecy! Even if for a second you would consider the possibility of a new prophet, Mirza sahib doesn't qualify to be one, if you look at his life and death. Of course I will find only good in informations coming from Ahmadies and naturally I will find bad things about him from information coming from 'anti-Ahmadies'. I'm trying to find the clue in between and keep getting stuck on Mirza sahib's own claim to prophecy.

Its about respecting someone's beliefs. With my reply to your questions, I did not mean to convince you of the truth of the Ahmadiyyat, I only wanted to let you know that everything a Molana says is not always perfectly true.

I never said you were trying to convince me. I'm not talking just about your posts. I read many interesting threads. Some of the discussions were really intense and I enjoyed reading them, like the many discussions between Destino and Perplexing.

The real thing is that you should understand the fact, that we base our beliefs on logic too, and if in some cases, Molana Ludhianvi has the upper hand on us in an argument, there are other times when we have the upper hand too!

I just want to say that Ahmedis may be wrong, but it is not as simple. There are always two sides to an argument, and they both have an argument.

Naturally, and I could understand if someone would have differences between other matters, such as Iesa (pbuh) being dead or alive, I have a muslim Maroc friend who also believes that Iesa (pbuh) is dead, to me he's alive up there, that's a different view we both have.
But Mirza's claiming prophecy is something different. that's not a different view, that's a lie! There can't be any good logic behind that one!

Just think, when we Ahmedis, who have read the books of Mirza Saheb, read these lies forged by Molana Ludhianvi, will it convince us of his point, or will it repell us from it?

Same goes for Mirza sahib, when non-Ahmadies read his contradictions from his very own books, or his predictions that never came true, or his dirty language that all non-Ahmadies are children of prostitutes (!!!), language that no other prophet ever used before, instead prophet Muhammad (pbuh) even after being severely injured by non-believers, still prayed to Allah for their hadayaat! What a difference between a true prophet and an arch-liar!

>As long as you don't use bad language, fine with me. :-)

- I won't. I am not a Molana

Instead you will only follow in Mirza sahibs footsteps and call every non-Ahmadi child of a prostitute....

- Yeah but remember, you said, since Molana Ludhianvi has accused Mirza Saheb of making additions to the Koran, then he can't be lying! And now we know that he was. So its not as easy as it sounds.

True maybe, he had those two points wrong, or maybe he got it from a different source then, who knows? But maulana's, scholars, all are humans too and can make mistakes. We should all try to follow only Muhammad (pbuh) in the first place, and if we don't find an answer, then look at what the scholars say and where they base their opinons on. If you agree with a scholar on something, it doesn't necessarily mean you follow that scholar in everything. Every scholar is right in something, they all have valid points in one argument or the other.
That's why I don't want to be in one group/jammaat, whatever you call it.

- Have you seen one on here yet? :)

As if molana's have so much free time, that they would be chatting on GupShup regularly!
Not all maulana's are necessarily bad. You have good ones out there too.

thats not fair, if we lie, we're bad, if Ludhianvi Saheb lies, even then its we who's bad!

You can call maulana Ludhianvi sahib anything you like, but at least he never claimed prophecy! He's well educated too, he could also try interpreting ayaats in such way, that he would be hailed as the new prophet!

Anyway, maybe some day you should post up some lies that Ahmedis tell and enlighten me? Coz otherwise I may think they don't tell any.

Don't know if all Ahmadies are liars, but for Mirza sahib, all you have to do is read his own writings. Somebody posted here, on another thread, contradictions coming from his very own writings!

- You spelt it correct! Deobandis are Wahabis.

Really? I had no idea. Now you're confusing me again... My family follows the same kind of Islam practised as in Mecca, as far as I know, I heard the name coming up from some guy called Salfi or something. That's all I know. I thought Deobandis are another separate group, boy this group/jammaat thing sure is confusing.

And you have seen with your own eyes, that just as people think we are Kafirs, they also think your sect is Kafir too.

That's only natural, most people think they are right and the rest is wrong.

I respect you for your sincerity to Islan, and so I expect you to respect me for mine too.

I can respect anybody, but Mirza sahib I can't, for the sole reason that he announced himself prophet. I have all kinds of friends, we ahve a family friend, who happens to be deobandi, and he's one of the finest friends you can imagine. He always has been honest, never lied to my father, has always stood by my father in difficult times, he's one of my favorite uncles. We also have friends who are barelvi (spelling?), though we never eat from their yarmi (spelling?), we all get along just fine. And the list goes on and on, including Christians, atheists. They respect us and we respect them, never had any fight with them on religion, though the differences are often discussed between my Dad and them.
But I could never respect Mirza sahib and therefor I can't respect your belief. I respect your character, but I can't respect your belief.

83

^Will you believe in Jesus when he descends? Will you believe that he is a Prophet???

84

I will.....if I see that time.

85

Thats a nice way of contradicting yourself.. without feeling how ridiculous this looks.. "There can be no prophet whatsoever.. but if someone descends from the sky, i wont have any objections" (we should give him the credit for managing such a long journey in the space)

86

^ The God who can give us life from a drop of water can also send his prophet from skies wihtout any oxygen mask or a space suit. He is Qadir-e-Mutlaq. I have not seen Allah but I believe in him, and that there was a prohet Mohammed :saw: 1400 years ago, I read it in Kalima. This is called beliving in unseen, which is a mandatory part of our Iman.

You sound like western materialized minds who say…“Seeing is believing”. If Islam was just about all the physics theory then Einstien would have been the greatest Muslim of modern times.

87

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by smooth_guy: *
^ The God who can give us life from a drop of water can also send his prophet from skies wihtout any oxygen mask or a space suit.
[/QUOTE]

Who on earth told you God lives on the Sky?

  • “He is with you wherever you are” (Koran, 57:4)

  • “Nowhere is there a secret counsel between three persons but He is the fourth of them, nor (between) five but He is the sixth of them, nor less than that nor more but He is with them wheresoever they are." (Koran, 58:7)

  • "We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein.” (Koran, 50:16)

  • “And We are nearer to it( the human soul) than you, but you do not see.” (Koran, 56:85)

So who gave you that sky idea?

Plus, there are many planets in the Sky. Which one does Jesus live on?

88

Dear Sadya,

>this booklet was a reply to the allegations of Mirza Tahir sahib.
- The booklet featured one letter. There have been booklets written by Ahmedis in reply to those by Ludhianvi Saheb. Almost all of them. And Ahmedis give them for free :)

>keep getting stuck on Mirza sahib's own claim to prophecy.
- I can relate to that, there was a time I felt exactly the same. So don't worry, I'll always respect your feelings and beliefs.

>You will only follow in Mirza sahibs footsteps and call every non-Ahmadi child of a prostitute....

  • I have seen many mistranslations of this sentence by different Molanas, as I have told you they are compulsive liars and think they're doing a service to Islam by lying. My dear sister, please note the original saying is:

""Every Muslim will accept me and will confirm my claim except the zurrayatul baghaya whose hearts will have been sealed up by God Almighty." (Aina-e-Kamalat-e-Islam, Roohani Khazain vol.5 p.547)

Now let us analyze with an open mind if the words underlined above can be translated as 'Children of prostitute'.

Remember that in all languages of the world the words are used in two ways. Either they are taken as literal or they are treated as metaphorical. It is the context which explains that in what sense the author has used them. Let us take an example from the Koran: "The worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the deaf, the dumb, who have no sense." (8:22) In this verse the nonbelievers have been called beasts, deaf and dumb, but we all know that all unbelievers are not deaf and dumb, and they are humans, most of them possess ears and they can speak. We know that over hear the words beasts, deaf and dumb can not be taken literally, but symbolically. Coming to the meaning of the phrase in question:

  • ﺱﻭﺮﻌﻟﺍ ﺝﺎﺗ is one of the most renouned lexicons of Arabic language. It also states "deprived of guidance" as the meaning of the above phrase.

    • ﺡﺍﺮﺻ the lexicon or Arabic states that: ﺶﻴﺠﻟﺍ ﺩﻭﺭﻭ ﻞﺒﻗ ﻥﻮﮑﺗ ﻲﺘﻟﺍ ﻉﺎﻠﻄﻟﺍ ﺎﻀﻳﺍ ﺎﻳﺎﻐﺒﻟﺍ i.e. Baghaya is used for the leading group of fighters that walks ahead of the army.

Miza Saheb himself translated Ibn-e-Bagha as ﻥﺎﺴﻧﺍ ﺶﮐﺮﺳ (1):

[thumb=C]si.JPG[/thumb]

Now you tell me, that if there exist more than one meanings of a phrase, and the author has himself told which one he was using, then picking its literal and dirty meaning and publishing it in books without any reference to how the Author himself has said to mean it, is this a act of piety, or is it foul play and cheating?

Imam Baqer has said, "(2) ﺎﻨﺘﻌﻴﺷ ﺎﻠﺧ ﺎﻣ ﺎﻳﺎﻐﺑ ﺩﺎﻟﻭﺍ ﻢﻬﻠﮐ ﺱﺎﻨﻟﺍ ﻥﺍ ﻩﺰﻤﺣ ﺎﺑﺍ ﺎﻳ ﻪﻠﻟﺍ ﻭ". He has also used the same phrase, will you then say he also was using dirty language?

Imam Jaffer Sadiq has said: "(3) ﻦﻄﻴﺷ ﻪﻔﻄﻧ ﻥﺎﮐ ﺎﻨﻀﻐﺑﺍ ﻦﻣ ﻭ ﺪﺒﻌﻟﺍ ﻪﻔﻄﻧ ﻥﺎﮐ ﺎﻨﺒﺣﺍ ﻦﻣ" Here Imam Jaffer has used similar language for those who hate him. Will Kudhianvi Saheb and any other Molana dare to say the same about the Imam?

Now see this verse of the Koran: ""His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him he lolls out his tongue or if you leave him alone he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject our signs; so relate the story; perchance they may reflect." (Holy Quran 7:176)

Will you also say about the above verse that the Koran uses dirty language against his followers and calls them Dogs?

*>Somebody posted here, on another thread, contradictions coming from his very own writings! *
- Unfortunately that was probably before I was on here. Since I have been coming here, I have not seen anything of that sort. I have studied Mirza Sahebs writings in details many many times. If I had seen contradictions or lies, I wouldv'e left his followers, why would I be calling myself and Ahmedi? Life for Ahmedis in Pakistan is too hard to become one for fun :)

>But I could never respect Mirza sahib and therefor I can't respect your belief.
- Uffffff itna ghussa?? How will you feel if your Christian friends say that tolerance is good, but they can not respect you and your belief because Mohammad claimed to be a prophet after Jesus? I feel the same way.
But its okay I guess, if you don't wanna respect my belief, I guess I'll live with that. I still respect yours.

p.s. I started a thread on the topic of Finality of prophethood. Please take a look.

References:

1) Mirza Ghulam Ahmed, Alhakam, 24th February 1907 - Page 12, Column 2
2) Imam Baqer, Kitaabur Raoza - Page 135
3) Imam Jaffer Sadiq, Faro' e Kafi - Volume 2, Page 216

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You Destino saheb said that…I just replied…and where did I say that God lives in the sky ??? I am talking about Jesus coming from heaven…and I don’t wanna go into debate that where heaven is…:frusty2:

whenever you guys are cornered in logic…you come back with *&^%$#@ that doesn’t make any sense to the world. And it helps you to distract the attention from the point that just caught you there.

90

The verse of the ascent of Jesus says ‘God raised him up to himself’.

In the light of the verses I have quoted above, explain where Jesus went when he was raised ‘towards’ God.

..and then we will see who’s logically cornered.

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Mr. Smooth_Guy,

So According to you quoting the verses of Holy Quran in an argument is '*&^%$#@ that doesn't make any sense to the world'. Nice going! You would not go too far with this kind of attitude.

92

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Destino: *
Thats a nice way of contradicting yourself.. without feeling how ridiculous this looks.. "There can be no prophet whatsoever.. but if someone descends from the sky, i wont have any objections" (we should give him the credit for managing such a long journey in the space)
[/QUOTE]

Iesa (pbuh) is not a new prophet. He is an old prophet that will RETURN.

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Dear brother Pagal Insaan,

There have been booklets written by Ahmedis in reply to those by Ludhianvi Saheb. Almost all of them. And Ahmedis give them for free :)

First you say Maulana Ludhianvi sahib tied the hands and legs of Ahmadies with rope and now you say they did defend themselves.
I've seen Ahmadies selling booklets here too, and I've seen different Islamic sects and Chistians too) giving theirs for free. What's that got to do with the topic?

So don't worry, I'll always respect your feelings and beliefs.

I'm not worried wether or not you or anybody else for that matter, respect my feelings and beliefs, I worry about what Allah thinks about me.

Will you also say about the above verse that the Koran uses dirty language against his followers and calls them Dogs?

There is a huge difference between using dogs or prostitutes.

- Unfortunately that was probably before I was on here. Since I have been coming here, I have not seen anything of that sort.

It was not so long ago, I will see if I can dig it out.

- Uffffff itna ghussa?? How will you feel if your Christian friends say that tolerance is good, but they can not respect you and your belief because Mohammad claimed to be a prophet after Jesus?

Huh? I had no idea I was angry, if I've given you the idea that I'm mad, then I'm sorry.......

Anyway, there is a difference between my Christian friend doing that and me saying that kind of stuff to you.
I'm not telling them, hey, I'm following Muhammad (pbuh) and I'm a Christian too. This is the true Christian fate, to follow Muhammad (pbuh) and read Quran instead of Bible, then you will be true Christians?

I feel the same way.

No, you don't brother. What would it be like, if now in Ahmadiyya community a new man came forward, making the same sort of claims as Mirza sahib and would say, 'well people, I'm the new prophet from now on, Allah has bestowed his Light on me and now you all have to follow me? And btw, not only did Jesus (pbuh) die a natural death, but he also had children and I happen to be one of his descendants....

94

Why are we always referred to as the ummat of Muhammad (pbuh) if there is supposed to come another prophet after Muhammad (pbuh)?
When he would talk about the future, like the signs of the Day of Judgement coming near, he's always talking about 'in my ummat' , if we were supposed to have another prophet in the future,wouldn't he then refer to us differently, like 'in the ummat of the next prophet' or he would have said 'in the ummat of Mirza' or what ever, instead of calling us also his ummat.

95

Explain me one thing. Isn’t Allah all-knowing. Doesn’t he know past, present and what is stored for us in future?

If he does, then doesn’t he know that mankind would be in need of a profit after Muhammad :saw:? Now, if he knew that mankind would be in need of a profit, but he(Na’uzobillah) seems to forget it and mistakenly has already said that Muhammad :saw: is the last of the profits.

Now that Muhammad :SAW: is last, he cannot bring a new one. However, he has saved one in the past up in the heavens which he can use later on for mankind. But he cannot raise a prophet from the Ummat of Muhammad :saw:, as this would go against Khatam-un-Nabiyyeen ayat.

What a plan from Allah Almighty, all-wise and all-knowing.

I can’t understand how your brains can absorb such beliefs.

96

So, you think, when your Isa :as: would descend from heavens, and whoever will believe will be out of the fold of ummat of muhammad :saw:, as he was Israely prophet?

97

So jesus was wrong, when he said the following.. He should have said.. I am messenger unto you and (on a later date) to the muslims too..

61: 7. And call to mind when ** Jesus, son of Mary, said, `O children of Israel, surely, I am ALLAH's Messenger unto you** , fulfilling that which is before me of the prophecies of the Torah, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger who will come after me, his name being Ahmad. And when he came to them with clear proofs, they said, this is manifest sorcery.'

98

What a plan indeed! Thank God, you’re not in his shoes, or else the world would be completely upside down!

If Allah would have forgotten, why would he announce that centuries ahead? Like I said, he’s an old prophet returning. He won’t have new revelations or new messages. And from what I understand, he will come as a fighter, to liberate muslims, not as a prophet.

99

No, you’re misinterpreting me. That’s not what I meant. He will come again, but to free us. Not as a prophet this time. He’s an old prophet returning to the earth, this time his task won’t be prophecy.

And Israeli prophet’s were also from Allah, weren’t they? Why would anybody who believes in Israeli prophets not be a muslim?

Didn’t Allah tell Moses that the new prophet (Muhammad saw) would be from his brethren, as the two sons of Ibrahiem (pbuh) were the fathers of the Jews and the Arabs, so in fact they are brethren. Why wouldn’t the old Israeli prophets be true prophets?

100

Sadya,

>First you say Maulana Ludhianvi sahib tied the hands and legs of Ahmadies with rope and now you say they did defend themselves.

  • When I talked about the bans I referred to the penal code of Pakistan. If Ahmedis have no point, how do you justify the ban? Thats a question you have been avoiding.

>I'm not worried wether or not you or anybody else for that matter, respect my feelings and beliefs, I worry about what Allah thinks about me.

  • "Revile not those whom they invoke besides Allah, lest they may spitefully revile Allah without knowledge. Thus fair-seeming unto every community We have made their work. Then unto their Lord is their return; And HE will inform them of what they used to do." (Koran, 6:108)

>There is a huge difference between using dogs or prostitutes.

  • Thats absurd, I quoted your own scholars and Imams from Islam, then if I am Kafir, you all are the same for the same reasons.

>I'm not telling them, hey, I'm following Muhammad (pbuh) and I'm a Christian too.

  • You tell them that you follow Jesus as well. You tell them them that the original teachings of Jesus are followed by you and what they believe in is not what Jesus said!!! That is exactly we Ahmedis say to you about prophet Mohammad. There is no difference. How will you like it if they ban you in the US for calling Hazrat Esa a prophet?

*> What would it be like, if now in Ahmadiyya community a new man came forward, making the same sort of claims as Mirza sahib and would say, 'well people, I'm the new prophet from now on, Allah has bestowed his Light on me and now you all have to follow me? *

  • Unlike Ludhianvi,the liar, yells you, we do not beliebe that Mirza Saheb is the last prophet to mankind. Look at the thread I have started about the sayings of the Koran on the prophet within the Ummah. You will notice that according to the Koran, Allah will continue to choose Messengers from among humans forever. So whosoever will be satisfied by such a claim of prophethood, he will follow him with the fear of God, and whosoever is not satisfied will not follow him with the fear of God.