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*Originally posted by zakiahmed: *
Mr.
Haj was banned on him by Saudi govt. And its a duty upon every person to abide by the law.
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And when was he banned? Saudi Government was formed in 1902.. so Mirza had all his life as i think he died in around 1907...I am sure his message didnt reached so far at that time? can to give date when he was banned.. so if he was banned what ahmadis do these days.. do they have any other alternative?
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*Originally posted by zakiahmed: *
It seems these are the only criterias to be pious. You can find many Hafiz Quran and many who performed Haj among muslims, yet they still find themselves enslaved in the lust of evil deeds.
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No there are other criterias too.. why dont u look at millions of Hafiz -e -Quran both males and females -who dont let themselves enslaved in lust of evil deeds than looking at few who do.. Is being Hafiz-e-Quran a bad thing?
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*Originally posted by Degas: *
No there are other criterias too.. why dont u look at millions of Hafiz -e -Quran both males and females -who dont let themselves enslaved in lust of evil deeds than looking at few who do.. Is being Hafiz-e-Quran a bad thing?
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Being Hafiz-e-Quran is not bad at all. What's more important is its understanding.
Yes, we ahmadis are also banned of performing haj.
This fulfills the prophecy of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH):
Abdullah bin Amar (RA) relates that the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said “Surely things will happen to my people as happened earlier to Israelites, they will resemble each other like one shoe in a pair resembles the other to the extent that if anyone among the Israelites has openly committed adultery to his mother there will be some who will do this in my Ummah as well, verily the Israelites were divided into 72 sections but my people will be divided into 73 sections, all of them will be in the fire except one.” The companions asked, ‘Who are they O Messenger of Allah,’ Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “They are those who will be like me and my companions.”
Now consider who amongst muslims are like Huzur’s (SAW) companiens.
Huzur (SAW) were denied access to perform haj, so are we.
Sahabas were stoned because of belief, so are we.
Sahabas were boycotted, so were we.
There were same allegations agains Huzur (SAW) and his sahabas as we as ahmadi face.
Huzur(SAW) migrated because of migration, so did our Khalifa IV
For details on comparison follow this link: 73 Divisions in Islam and One True Jama’at
As u claim he was banned by Saudi Govt but he must be in late 60's at that time.. so ur argument of banning doesnt hold good here..
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and Sahabas were persecuted for their new faith against kuffar.. so what Ahmadis were persecuted for- new religion?
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*Originally posted by Degas: *
As u claim he was banned by Saudi Govt but he must be in late 60's at that time.. so ur argument of banning doesnt hold good here..
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and Sahabas were persecuted for their new faith against kuffar.. so what Ahmadis were persecuted for- new religion?
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hehehhehee......good one degas.
Ahmadi’s are prosecuted for ‘true islam’ by new likes of jews, as Huzur :saw: prophecied 1400 years ago.
so when was ur “True Islam” banned to perform hajj? still waiting when Mirza desired to go for Hajj and when was he banned.. u wrote above he was banned by Saudi Govt..
Degas, if he had performed haj, you would consider him prophet of Allah, or are you just looking to make a fool of yourself? I mean who cares if one has performed a Haj or not? Osama has probably performed a couple of dozen Hajs, and so have Saddam and many rapists, murderers and robbers, so are they any better people than Gandhi?
I asked you whether or not Prophet Mohammad was literate (as in reading and writing?). Don’t tell me there were no public schools at that time. There’s nothing in Quran that states that Massangers of Allah are required to perform Haj. It wasn’t even a ritual until Prophet Mohammad came along, How many Prophets before him performed Haj? Did Prophet Moses perform one?
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*Originally posted by NYAhmadi: *
Degas, if he had performed haj, you would consider him prophet of Allah, or are you just looking to make a fool of yourself? I mean who cares if one has performed a Haj or not? Osama has probably performed a couple of dozen Hajs, and so have Saddam and many rapists, murderers and robbers, so are they any better people than Gandhi?
I asked you whether or not Prophet Mohammad was literate (as in reading and writing?). Don’t tell me there were no public schools at that time. There’s nothing in Quran that states that Massangers of Allah are required to perform Haj. It wasn’t even a ritual until Prophet Mohammad came along, How many Prophets before him performed Haj? Did Prophet Moses perform one?
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since Abraham's times Mecca was an important place of blessing
Check this ayat if Hajj is not important for muslims..
"And pilgrimage to the Sacred House is incumbent on whoever has the means..."
Its a basic faith of muslims to perform hajj if possible.. and millions do it every year.. and even one is not able to perform Hajj .. still muslims yearn to go to holy places Mecca and Madina.. if thats not important what important then to visit Qadian and Rabwah?
I just checked the link to Ahmadiah website.. why r u becoming so angry.. I didnt said anything objectionable for Mirza.. I just want to know Mirza's stance on important faith element like Hajj or Zakat.. I even didnt noted about Zakat anywhere..
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*Originally posted by Degas: *
since Abraham's times Mecca was an important place of blessing
Check this ayat if Hajj is not important for muslims..
"And pilgrimage to the Sacred House is incumbent on whoever has the means..."
Its a basic faith of muslims to perform hajj if possible.. and millions do it every year.. and even one is not able to perform Hajj .. still muslims yearn to go to holy places Mecca and Madina.. if thats not important what important then to visit Qadian and Rabwah?
I just checked the link to Ahmadiah website.. why r u becoming so angry.. I didnt said anything objectionable for Mirza.. I just want to know Mirza's stance on important faith element like Hajj or Zakat.. I even didnt noted about Zakat anywhere..
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why not pakistan craete its holy places and its own home grown prphets?
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*Originally posted by Mr OuiJa: *
i will check this and write about this.
but i need the ref, where u got this addition, i mean in which book he wrote this!!
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I have no idea from which book Maulana Ludhianvi got this quote. But I can't believe he would make that up.
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*Originally posted by rvikz: *
why not pakistan craete its holy places and its own home grown prphets?
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I guess ur stuck up with local religions that are limited with limited range.. Islam and christianity are universal religions that spread all over the globe as their messege is above race, creed, or geographical limits!
Degas, that's the main difference between those who have locked Allah inside one tiny little place, and those who believe that he is not confined to Mecca alone. No Ahmadi, that I know of, places any importance to Qadiyan or Rabwah. I don’t ever want to go to Qadiyan simply because my Prophet was born there. There might be other reasons that I may wish to go there. I have relatives who live in Rabwah, and if you ask me, it is nothing special there aside from the fact that you feel like you are in the burbs of LA, with big houses and swimming pools etc. Other than that, it is a crappy place with no night life.
Jesus came a lot after Ibrahim, what are Jesus's views on performing Haj? Did he ever perform one? What did he think of Mecca? Did he have any "means"? Did you know that he only owned one Jacket all his life, and was a lousy carpenter who couldn't saw wood in a straight line?
Just one last thing, Ahmadis don't believe in any of the confining and restricting nature of religion. They are about interpreting it with modernity. You don't have to believe it.
I am still waiting for your views on whether or not Prophet Mohammad could read and write.
Ilama Shabibi writes he was mujadid also.
That if Holy Prophet (saw) comes back with his physical form in todays world and see the situation of Muslims. He (saw) will say by GOD what these muslims are following today isnt my religion. And Holy Prophet (saw) will suffer with the hands of present day muslims as he was in the time of Qureish of Macca.
So look where you guyz stand. You are doing the same thing as Quresh of Macca did to Holy Prophet (saw) and there sahabaz. Its an open invitation to alll :). You cant deny this reality.
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*Originally posted by sadya: *
I have no idea from which book Maulana Ludhianvi got this quote. But I can't believe he would make that up.
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but you were saticfied with my answer about the first objection, "name of Qadian in Holy Quran".
I myself read his few books availble on internet and compare all the qoutes with original, but ONLY lies Ludhyanwi Sahib.
But i will see if I can find myself the objection with ref somewhere else to see what he meant.
But all the Mullahs who attack Hz Masih Maood :as present only cut and paste version, like Jews and Hindus present cut and paste from Holy Quran!!
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*Originally posted by NYAhmadi: *
Just one last thing, Ahmadis don't believe in any of the confining and restricting nature of religion. They are about interpreting it with modernity. You don't have to believe it.
I am still waiting for your views on whether or not Prophet Mohammad could read and write.
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So this is not ur view but Ahmadis views in general that religion should not be confining.. such as rituals of Hajj? Then why there are so many reference to importance to Hajj in Quran.. Did Mirza said anything about Hajj.. its not importance to this modern world.. or if the ban for ahmadis is lifted would they perform Hajj or its not important as Mirza didnt performed it.. its a very important faith element among muslims.. as Ahmadis I guess believe in Quran so why its not important...
All know that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) could write or read.. what it hads to do with Mirza's not being Hafiz.. I guess its always preferable to be hafiz..
Degas, wrong. Prophet Mohammad was illiterate. I was using that as an example that Prophets come in all shapes and forms (I gave you Jesus's example too), and no two are similar in any way. There were no Hafizs of Quran before it was revealed (that would make sense). Does the Quran itself place any emphasis on Memorizing it? You can make all the assumptions you wish about what Mirza Ghulam Ahmad said or did not say, because it wouldn’t make one bit difference. God doesn't need anyone's approval to pick who he wishes to preach his message. He was sent to preach God's message, and was not sent to memorize Quran or perform Haj.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by NYAhmadi: *
Degas, wrong. Prophet Mohammad was illiterate. I was using that as an example that Prophets come in all shapes and forms (I gave you Jesus's example too), and no two are similar in any way. There were no Hafizs of Quran before it was revealed (that would make sense). Does the Quran itself place any emphasis on Memorizing it? You can make all the assumptions you wish about what Mirza Ghulam Ahmad said or did not say, because it wouldn’t make one bit difference. God doesn't need anyone's approval to pick who he wishes to preach his message. He was sent to preach God's message, and was not sent to memorize Quran or perform Haj.
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ok.. i accept that u believe in him as prophet and he preached God's message.. but he bnever claimed to change anything in Quran or its basic rituals.. so Namaz, Roza, Hajj and Zakat are fundamental rituals and no muslim can escape without a valid excuse.. Mirza might had not performrf due to any valid reason.. am just asking if Ahmadis still consider Hajj as an important ritaul as ordained by Quran or its not necessary in these times.. what about Namaz, fasting and Zakat? I know ahmadis do namaz and fasting as i hav eseen some friends doing those..
Degas, Ahmadis do place a lot of emphasis on all 5 basic pillars of Islam - Shahadat, Nimaz, Roza, Haj, Zakat. But we are not restricted by them, we pay more Zakat than required (according to our means). Ahmadis who can, have gone and performed Haj. Nowhere is it said in Ahmadi books that Haj is unimportant. By the way, the Haj of today (going on a plane and buying a pre-butchered Bakra is not the same as the Haj of yesteryears, where people walked for months to get to Mecca). Today's Haj is like taking a vacation to Disneyland. What is important is what is in your heart, and not just a delusion of doing something because one is ordained to.
Mirza Sahib did not come to bring any new faith, but to preach the faith of Prophet Mohammad. He often referred to himself as the "Slave of Mohammad".