Debating the hijab

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: Debating the Hijab

@fartguru

AnGel Eyes,

Extremely sensitive question cause it represents not only a particular beilef or mindset, it also represent in today’s world a form of rebellion against western values.

Hijab is of the eye (beauty is in the eyes of the beholder) as very clealrly defined in Quranic text which refers to both men and women. Gist of the message was of decency, modesty, dignity, propiety and above all respect for each other.

According to historians and religious scholars such as Karen Armstrong, Bernard Lewis, Dr Fazlur-Rehman (late), Fatimma Mehrinissi to name a few, Muslim world of the Prohpet did not exercize Hijab as practiced today. It was the Byzantine Christian’s who practiced Hijab representing a status symbol where upper classes kept their women in cover projecting a symbol of superiority. When Muslims interacted with these people another 100years after the prophets passing, they too adopted these standards.

Quranic text which talks about Hijab or Jaluba refers to very particular situations and Holy Prophet’s wives and daughters. There is a difference of opinion on interpertations of verses which relates to the subject of Jaluba, Yusuf Ali has a different explanation compared to other Tafaseers. Please do read Yusuf Ali’s explanation.

Most Importantly, Quran talks of punishment for Mushriqeen, Adultery, non-believers, thieves, murderers etc etc. Nowhere does it use same language for women who do not cover themselves, yet Muslim Ulema have made this into a challenge comparable to the basic pillars of Islam, which it is certainly not.

One must keep inmind the time when message was delivered, it was a very tribalistic society with many problems. Not all problems were imediately resolved, it was a gradual process, even the message itself was delivered in a way and language which the people of that particular region could understand and comprehend.

One should focus on gist of the message.

thank yo so much for this post

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: Debating the Hijab

@Crescent_

I am being honest. This is wrong.

i dont think he posted that to debate it…i think he posted that to show me the other view.

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: Debating the Hijab

@parissenoor

^^ but sunnah is not Islam, otherwise those who are not sunni would not be muslim……so to be general, and include all muslim point of view Quran rules, inshallah
don’t forget that basic logical principle crescent: a part can never describe the thing it is coming from…the whole rules over the part, the genenral rules over the exception…by stating the right side is on the Sunnah…you’re excluding Quran…and that is not fair to say the least

well that statement right there could start a whole new debate because some muslims say that ppl that dont follow the sunnah are not Muslims at all.

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: Debating the Hijab

@parissenoor

^^ but sunnah is not Islam, otherwise those who are not sunni would not be muslim…so to be general, and include all muslim point of view Quran rules, inshallah
don’t forget that basic logical principle crescent: a part can never describe the thing it is coming from…the whole rules over the part, the genenral rules over the exception…by stating the right side is on the Sunnah…you’re excluding Quran…and that is not fair to say the least

without the sunnah you wouldnt be able to perform things mentioned in the Quran. Without the Sunnah we wouldnt know how to perform wudu or how and when to pray.

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: Debating the Hijab

@parissenoor

well for sunnis following sunna and hadith, covering up is required as crescent mentioned above
but those who believe only Quran as the true intact word of Allah, and hadith non reliable because of human interation in their writing, then hijab is not compulsory because it is not clearly defined in Quran…putting veil over ones body do not mean over ones head

actually noor your taking the transliteration (arabic to english etc) of the Quran and drawing conclusions from that. you have to look beyond just the transliteration. The meaning of the ayah gets lost when you translate the actual arabic text into english or any other language. in order to get an actual understanding of the quran you must look at the arabic text itself. once you do that you will find that the veil they are referring to is not only for the body but for the head as well.

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: Debating the Hijab

**CRESCENT, **as far as the face covering (niqab) that is open to interpretation. Not all schools of thoughts believe that one must cover their face in order to observe the hijab properly. Also those quotes you have mentioned does not say specifically that one must cover their face. What's written in parenthesis is just commentary...only one's opinion and interpretation of that ayah not the actual arabic text.

[Crescent]

Re: Debating the Hijab

@AnGeL EyEs

**CRESCENT, **as far as the face covering (niqab) that is open to interpretation. Not all schools of thoughts believe that one must cover their face in order to observe the hijab properly. Also those quotes you have mentioned does not say specifically that one must cover their face. What’s written in parenthesis is just commentary…only one’s opinion and interpretation of that ayah not the actual arabic text.

As far as I know, the Hanafi school of thought takes the jilbaab ayah into consideration comprehensively. Meaning the niqaab is included.

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: Debating the Hijab

@Crescent_

As far as I know, the Hanafi school of thought takes the jilbaab ayah into consideration comprehensively. Meaning the niqaab is included.

yes but not everyone is hanafi…so there’s no use arguing it. especially since all of the madhabs are correct. you follow what ur madhab tells you 2 but that doesnt mean that one should say that another madhab is incorrect becauce once we start doing that we are dividing our ummah.

[Crescent]

Re: Debating the Hijab

@AnGeL EyEs

yes but not everyone is hanafi…so there’s no use arguing it. especially since all of the madhabs are correct.

Ok. since I don’t know, rite now, and will look into this.

Can somebody tell me other madhab’s rulings on this?

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: Debating the Hijab

i know that some have said that it is fardz and others have said that it is wajib.

[Crescent]

Re: Debating the Hijab

@AnGeL EyEs

i know that some have said that it is fardz and others have said that it is wajib.

fard..wajib..

Can you get me more detailed ones from where you heard this?
thanks

[S02]

Re: Debating the Hijab

Has anyone posted a Quranic verse that says that covering hair is obligatory for maintaining modesty?

[skhan]

Re: Debating the Hijab

Bottom line is that people who don't agree with the hijab will always find reasons to support their point of view and those that do advocate the hijab will find an equal number of reasons to support their point of view. And then we can argue will Judgement day over whose reasons are right. Most have already made up their mind and are merely looking for justifcation to make themselves feel better about their decision. Defeats the purpose of debate.

[parissenoor]

Re: Debating the Hijab

@skhan

Bottom line is that people who don’t agree with the hijab will always find reasons to support their point of view and those that do advocate the hijab will find an equal number of reasons to support their point of view. And then we can argue will Judgement day over whose reasons are right. Most have already made up their mind and are merely looking for justifcation to make themselves feel better about their decision. Defeats the purpose of debate.

so true:D
there is no debate only two parallels exposure of arguments…

[parissenoor]

Re: Debating the Hijab

@AnGeL EyEs

well that statement right there could start a whole new debate because some muslims say that ppl that dont follow the sunnah are not Muslims at all.

and don’t you think that the umrah divide and calling of muslims as kaafir is a greater issue than niqqah/hijab…
to me faith and behavior is more important than any piece of cloth…though I appreciate wearing hijab in muslim country.
and the hypocrisy lies in the wearing of hijab/niqqah and dating at the same time:D…
there has already been threads on gs about that…

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: Debating the Hijab

@parissenoor

and don’t you think that the umrah divide and calling of muslims as kaafir is a greater issue than niqqah/hijab…
to me faith and behavior is more important than any piece of cloth…though I appreciate wearing hijab in muslim country.
and the hypocrisy lies in the wearing of hijab/niqqah and dating at the same time:D…
there has already been threads on gs about that…

the hijab is a part of the Islamic faith…a huge part… for both men and women equally. BTW the concept of hijab in Islam goes far beyond just come piece of cloth.

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: Debating the Hijab

@skhan

Bottom line is that people who don’t agree with the hijab will always find reasons to support their point of view and those that do advocate the hijab will find an equal number of reasons to support their point of view. And then we can argue will Judgement day over whose reasons are right. Most have already made up their mind and are merely looking for justifcation to make themselves feel better about their decision. Defeats the purpose of debate.

yea i agree…it’s just a matter of justifying one’s own personal decision on the matter.

[MYwish]

Re: Debating the Hijab

do whatever u like, and leave others alone, siple, 90% of the church of England followers are atheists now in one way or another and nobody questions their beliefs, its just human nature, some follow the rituals, some don't.

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: Debating the Hijab

@Sahar02

Has anyone posted a Quranic verse that says that covering hair is obligatory for maintaining modesty?

there are many verses in the Quran and sunnah that you can find ordering muslim women to observe the hijab in order to maintain modesty. I’m sure you can find them all just by googling it (sorry i dont know the EXACT quote)..the only thing is that one can not understand it’s full meaning unless you understand Quranic Arabic. When the arabic text is translated into english for example you lose the actual meaning. (as mentioned earlier) This is why at times we have to rely on our scholars.

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: Debating the Hijab

@MYwish

do whatever u like, and leave others alone, siple, 90% of the church of England followers are atheists now in one way or another and nobody questions their beliefs, its just human nature, some follow the rituals, some don’t.

i agree with that. Do what you want and answer to Allah on the day of judgement. I dont think anyone should force their views on anyone. However if someone is saying something that is incorrect it is important to correct them. Correcting someone and forcing your views on them are 2 different things.