dealing with muslim women marrying non-muslims

Hangout GupShup Cafe
101

lol no im not aisha dubaiwali. why does someone have to be a multi? i been around for quite some time now and ppl do know me so yea dont mistaken me as a multi for someone =)
sorry for derailing ur thread emaanw

102

i am sure u are aisha dubaiwali.

103

Re: dealing with muslim women marrying non-muslims

lol

104

Won't feel comfortable around me? i hope you also feel uncomfortable with that full on darth vader who spoke of butchering Lars Vilk!
i dont think anybody forces their ideas on someone else when they are just friends. it's an emotional relationship, not a political one. you live your life, i live mine.
it's the more conservative muslims who like preaching in daily life ... others just want to relax and breathe.
but thank you for at least be willing to giving me a smile.

search for "the empirical facts of interfaith marriage" ... it's the first result on google.
second. whether "being a muslim" was objectively ascertained ... is funny you say that ... how do classify the children of a regular pakistan couple? are they muslim enough for you? are you objectively muslim? do you objectively support stoning to death of an adulterous woman, when the adulterous man only gets a 100 lashes for the same crime? its right their in the Bokhari.

you think is adultery because in your view it's not a marriage. in this very forum people are talking about scholars giving the permission to let men smoke because they dont want to "bear the sin" of making haram something that is not. what kind of hypocrisy is that? sure a majority of scholars stand on the side that it isnt allowed. but more scholars are popping up on the scene. there are 3 already! people forget that they are nothing but human! and very prone to making mistakes, even when a majority. and God recognizes that.
and saying that you understand that people can cut relationships over is sad. because you shuld rathe be saying you dont understand the society for behaving like this, and instead being more inclusive.

thank you. you can check the report out yourself and see if they were teenage crushes. if a mother is raising muslim kids, then that means that she is consciously aware of religious implications and mature enough to make choices. why the kids werent muslim in case of a muslim father is the more alarming fact in this study than anything else.

technically, when you make your shahada, believing in one God and the day of judgement and prophet Mohammad, is the only testimony you need to be making. the prophet didnt come to teach about one God. the concept has been there since the beginning of mankind. all the prophets came to nations that were in some sort of turmoil and social blasphemy of whatever. and their intention was to introduce the law of God. to ascertain the laws before him, and to implicate any changes or new rules.

and exactly Quran talks about a man marry a non muslim explicitly, but not of a woman marrying a non-muslim. why should this silence be taken as a rule that it is not allowed? it can also be determined that it is allowed, but not openly encouraged?

i wish people were more accomodating and understanding like you and your family, and less into ex-communicating and honor-killings and domestic abuse.

married! ha. i wouldnt let my toenails get married to that jerk! the guy was an international student. he was having some issues with staying in his university accomodations over the holidays and dad happily invited him over! the king-freak of double standards!

dont we like to be puritans! yeah .. throw everyone out. the gays, the apostates, the ones with dirty nails, the ones with dark skin .. blablabla .. when you pester the gays, are harsh towards them, call for their public stoning as dear anjem choudary would like to do under the sharia in britain .. what do you think the gays are gonna do? give themselves anaesthesia shots and hand themselves over to that freak? what do you mean by promoting gayism? they ask to be accepted as human beings!
and you're right. men go around willy-wallying as they please, but it's always the women who get the chop!

oh gawwwwwwwwd ... i dont know if i can upload this vdo iv got about this. it's pisses me off so much. men need to seriously get off their high horse of hypocrisy! that arab was throwing a table full of money on this prostitute ... and putting a couple down her cleavage ... !!!!!!

but anyways ... i got an email 2 days ago from my cousin (we were best friends). a full on lecture about God and how i am deviated, and an invitation to become Muslim again rolls eyes ... how the absence of a non-muslim makes no difference in the life of a musim family. nobody talks about me in my home and they seem happy. but she didnt expect me to have gone for so long. and wants me to consider coming back, apologizing and the whole drama! riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. doesnt that make me feel on cloud 9!

105

Re: dealing with muslim women marrying non-muslims

If you don't find an Imaam to get you married, why not get married through a priest (or whatever is the religion of your partner)?

106

Thank you. Unfortunately the page you referred me to provides no information on sample sizes and study methodology, which is what I was primarily interested in. It is, however, interesting to note that the study is from Yogyakarta, Indonesia where Muslims comprise over 90% of the population and are essentially the dominant culture. I suspect the study's findings would have been very different in the US or Western Europe, where Muslims are a small minority, and by no means the dominant culture.

I don't understand why you're getting so belligerent and hostile when I asked my (very logical) question quite politely. Let me put this simply - people do not walk around with a stamp on their forehead identifying their religious beliefs. If you are going to publish a "study" on the impact of interfaith marriage, then you need some objective means of identifying personal religious beliefs. Did they ask the parents? Did they survey the children? Did they check for Arabic names or Mosque-attendance? What was it based on? Does that make more sense now?

What in God's name does the hudood punishment for adultery have to do with anything? Whatever the point of this random, irrelevant tirade, it's quite clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. The laws that you're referring to condemn both adulterous men and women to stoning, only if 4 eye witnesses come forward and testify that they actually saw the act of penetration itself. Even catching two people naked together is not sufficient. If those requirements are not met, then the people who leveled the allegations are punished for making a false accusation in court. The legal requirements are so stringent that *the only people who were ever stoned for adultery during the lifetime of the Prophet were people who came to him and confessed, knowing what the punishment was. *

To be clear, I'm not commenting on the modern-day validity of stoning or the criminalization of adultery in the Muslim world today - that's an entirely different discussion and is utterly irrelevant to the topic on hand. However, your historical knowledge is quite poor. Do your research before spouting off nonsense.

Again, you don't know what youre talking about.

[quote]
Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever...(Quran 2:221)
[/quote]
Sounds to me like it's forbidden pretty clearly.

107

Regarding that verse that keeps getting quoted Quran 2:221, it refers to idolaters, not 'people of the book' because the words Al-Mushrikat and Al-Mushrikoon are used and used in regards to men **and **women.

Ppl who quote this verse thinking this means Muslim women are not allowed to marry non-Muslim men who are 'people of the book' should admit this would also have to mean that Muslim men aren't allowed to marry 'people of the book' either which we know they are. As Emaan has already pointed out, there seems to be nothing in the Qur'an specifically that forbids marriage to men who aren't idolaters. One of the basic principles of fiqh is that which **isn't specifically forbidden is permitted. **For some reason people are trying to make out that evidence is needed to prove something is allowed when actually the opposite is true, you need to prove that something is **not **allowed, not turn around and say 'well there's no specific mention of Muslim women being allowed to marry ahl al-kitaab like our men so it's obviously not allowed.'

108

lol. and who says "people of the book" cant be idolaters?

109

That’s why I was confused on which groups of people are considered “Unbelievers.” When I read the english translation of that verse, my Qur’an used the word “Unbelievers” not “idolaters.” That both men and women should not marry the Unbelievers. If Christians and Jews are Unbelievers, then it would be haram for men to marry them. And I also read that among the People of the Book, there are some who truly believe in one God and His Signs (in the verses I quoted in an earlier post, surah Al-Imran). But then another point that can be brought up is that the Qur’an is also a sign from God, so a believer would have to accept it as well. I suppose a scholar has to be relied upon to interpret “Unbelievers.” :konfused:

They can and so can lots of other people. But like I said above, I have read verses saying that among the People of the Book there are some who believe. There are some who do good, and they will get their dues. I’m not supporting Muslims (men or women) marrying non-Muslims because I still believe it’s not an ideal union, but the discussion is valid.

110

You're welcome.

In the US, I believe, children by law practice the mother's religion (in matters of dispute between parents when trying to decide which religion the children should practice). Maybe that adds something to the discussion.

111

No, the US cannot have such a law. Separation of church and state and all that.

If the mother has majority custody, then it is likely that the child will be raised in the mother's religious preference, and mothers get majority custody more often than the fathers. But as for it being a law, I think not. Anything like that will be decided on a case by case basis.

And anyway, when they grow up the kids are free to do as they like.

112

Re: dealing with muslim women marrying non-muslims

I getting a bit tired of this. What you want is acceptance, and to be honest you ain't getting that from most Pakis. That's just the way their DNA is wired in. The tolerance gene is pretty rear. So get on with your life, and stop carring what the rest of the community thinks. In my experience, the parents and siblings always come round, unless you are from Azad Kashmir way.

Trust me, you will feel better.

113

Re: dealing with muslim women marrying non-muslims

I dont think anyone mentioned this verse, which I think will clear up this issue

Allah says;

[60:11] O ye who believe! when believing women come to you as Refugees, examine them. Allah knows best their faith. Then, if you find them true *believers, send them not back to the **disbelievers. **These women are not lawful for them, nor are they lawful for these *women.** But give their disbelieving husbands what they have spent on them. And it is no sin for you to marry them, when you have given them their dowries. And hold not to your matrimonial ties with the disbelieving women; but demand the return of *that which you have spent; and let the disbelievers *demand that which they have spent. That is the judgment of Allah. He judges between you. And Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.

So basically, Muslim women are not lawful to the disbelievers, whether they're from Ahl Al-Ketaab or not, because anyone who doesnt believe in Allah and His messenger Mohammad peace be upon him is a disbeliever, I hope that is clear to you Ms Emaan

btw, what you're doing now is wrong, walking away from your family, living on your own (which am not sure, am worried that you're probably living with some white man who isnt a muslim, since you dont like muslim men) well thats another big issue and I dont want to start assuming, all I say to you is, go back to your family and be patient with them, because then Allah will reward you, as Allah says

                 [16:43] Those  who are steadfast and put their trust in their Lord.

May Allah guide you, Ameen

114

Re: dealing with muslim women marrying non-muslims

topics like this is very sensitive,islam is such a beautiful religion with its reasons and consequences,i beleive if u love Allah Tallah an His Messenger SWA you can do no wrong ur zameer will stop u,remember shytaan promised that he will see all of u in hell especially the weak and the ones who are slaves to there naafs(lower desires.)Love Allah Tallah and everything else will fall in place in ur life.two things cannot dwell in one heart.

115

Re: dealing with muslim women marrying non-muslims

2:221 = about mushrikeen = not good for BOTH men and women. under that criteria, how are men allowed to marry people of the Book? people are repeating the same thing over and over again.

as for 60:10 ... i think it is in a completely different context.

and emaan, i am not saying gays are propagating, but when you see gay parades, what are you to think about that? then they celebrate being gay.

i personally also have a problem with the fact that it is not CLEARLY mentioned that women cant marry people of Book.

116

Re: dealing with muslim women marrying non-muslims

People of the Book...how can you marry People of the Book which they changed themselves over the time whereas the Qur'an is a protected Book and tells us cristall clear what to do!? People have to understand the context and not just write gibberish.

Personally I think a man is more firm in his belief than a woman. This doesn't mean that we man are haters now or don't want to accept a woman's right to marry someone believing in fairytales. I personally could not marry someone who doesn't agree to my beliefs:

that you should be good person, do good deeds, be grateful, thank your lord and do all the things written in the last book. Allah has tested everyone and not just created any laws to make it unfair for mankind. What is the sense of this world then? He has tested mankind and allowed things which are not allowed now according to his last message. He gave the people a place to move within, but not cross the boundary. People crossed it (not only woman) and ruined the society. If you watch throughout the World today don't you see how astray People have gone?

I know that most men of Today are ****, but hasn't God made laws to protect you? You sleep with a man, get pregant, he doesn't want to know anything and leaves you with a "burden". How you wanna compete with the World?

This is just an example.

END

117

Zobia, what is wrong with you? :rolleyes: Someone needs to kick you off of your high horse. Your attitude is exactly teh kind of attitude that turns people OFF and away from Islam.

Try taking some lessons from people in this thread who actually know how to talk to each other with respect.

118

Re: dealing with muslim women marrying non-muslims

[QUOTE]
. Your attitude is exactly teh kind of attitude that turns people OFF and away from Islam.
[/QUOTE]

one, it must be noted that islam does not need these people either, and two who the hell is giving moderated dawa to these people which only encourages further sedation of truth

119

Re: dealing with muslim women marrying non-muslims

There was a topic on GS which was exactly about this ... there is a way to preach, with love and kindness. If you act almighty and arrogant, then don't expect any followers - at least none who will actually sit and listen to you.

120

seriously???

no.....I mean.......SERIOUSLY???