@hareem just because you dont know the person doesnt disqualify any data or study.
I didn't say I'm disqualifying her....I said i couldn't find much information on her and her studies.
but do you think your attitude is based upon the teachings of your religion (excommunicate those who dont ENTIRELY follow islam), or because that's what you've involuntarily inherited from your community ... by attitude i point at you saying you wouldnt keep any relationship with a muslim woman who is in relationship with a non-muslim man. why would you do that?
Because I wouldn't feel comfortable around her. And by not keeping a relation I meant I wouldn't make her my best friend, but I can say hello to her and smile at her when I see her.
does this act make me any different of a person than if i was not with a non-muslim man? do you also not keep any relationship, even of friendship, with any non-muslim man or woman? what if i was your sister? what justifies your cold behavior with people in this situation?
do you behave the same way with people who "break" other islamic laws? do you also not keep a relationship with women who do not wear a hijab? or with a "so-called" muslim couple who arent very cautious with their religious following?
I do meet people who are non-muslims with good morals and some good muslims who don't cover their heads but wear modest dress. If they were to wear mini skirts and stuff then i wouldn't keep any relation with them either.
If you marry a non-muslim and also you wear a hijab and your husband don't drink then I think i wouldn't mind meeting you. Happy?
And most of all, if YOU want to be my best friend without forcing your ideas on me then why not, I'd be your friend.
If the Koran does not forbid Muslim women to marry a man "of the book" AND the man agrees to raise the children as Muslims then it shouldnt be an issue yeah?
The problem is that the Quran does forbid it pretty clearly.
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Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever...(Quran 2:221)
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i came across a study that revealed 79% of the kids from an inter-faith marriage where the mother is a muslim, will be muslim, while only 57% are muslim in case the father is muslim. this is from 1990. and then in 2000: 61.9% of the kids were muslim where the mother was muslim, and only 13% muslim where the father was muslim.
Could you please post a link to this study? I'd like to see sample sizes, methodology, how "being a Muslim" was objectively ascertained, etc. If the numbers you're giving are indeed accurate, I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that, in like (fairly likely) event of a divorce, in most Western nations the mother will generally retain custody of the children.
what i would like people to talk about though is ... how do you treat someone (a woman) who has married outside of religion or has a committed relationship with a non-muslim man? is her action really so bad that she should face physical abuse from her parents, have the community talk ill of her? is she really not a muslim anymore, and does this really break all relationships?
To answer your question:
- Physical abuse is never justified, no matter what the reasoning
- As for the "community speaking ill"...the community will speak ill of people for far less than marrying outside the faith. I suppose in an ideal world, no one would gossip about others, but in reality its just a fact of life.
- Personally (and I'm hardly a religious scholar), I don't think she ceases to be a Muslim as long as she herself still believes in the tenants of the Islamic faith. However, there's no way around the fact that her marriage is completely invalid from a religious perspective and her children are essentially illegitimate.
how do you treat someone (a woman) who has married outside of religion or has a committed relationship with a non-muslim man?
It depends what kind of relationship we have. Generally speaking, I would tend to limit interaction with them.
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is her action really so bad that she should face physical abuse from her parents, have the community talk ill of her?
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Islamically speaking, what she's doing is quite wrong. Adultery is a major sin. I can understand the parents being upset about it though I don't say that it justifies abuse. As janab-e-ali said, people speak ill of others for less than that.
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is she really not a muslim anymore, and does this really break all relationships?
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I can't say that she's no longer Muslim for it, but I can understand people cutting off relationships over it.
As I understand from my reading, yes a Muslim man cannot marry an unbeleiver. However, Children of the book (Christian, Jew, Muslim) are considered to be beleivers.
As I understand from my reading, yes a Muslim man cannot marry an unbeleiver. However, Children of the book (Christian, Jew, Muslim) are considered to be beleivers.
A few points:
1. The term is people of the book (ahl-ul-kitab), not "children of the book"
2. The term "people of the book" refers to non-Muslims who belong to monotheistic faiths and whose sacred texts are recognized by Muslims. The term generally only refers to Jews, Christians, Sabians, Zoroastrians, and never refers to Muslims.
3. People of the book are not considered to be "believers" - that term generally only refers to Muslims.
4. The Quran specifically makes an exception and says that Muslim men can marry women from the people of the book. But that is not the issue being discussed here.
5. There is no such exception for Muslim women, who are categorically forbidden from marrying outside the religion.
People of the book are not considered to be "believers" - that term generally only refers to Muslims.
I was thinking about this yesterday and took note of some verses from Surah Al-Imran (3)...
"Not all of them are alike: of the People of the Book **are a portion that stand (for the right); they rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. **They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong..." (113-114).
"And there are, certainly among the People of the Book, those who believe in Allah, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to Allah: they will not sell the Signs of Allah for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord" (199).
According to what I've noticed while reading the Qur'an, the members of the People of the Book who believe in one God (Allah), His Signs, and the Last Day, are believers. The Unbelievers are those who pretend to believe in God or reject Him completely. ***I could be wrong though.
Re: dealing with muslim women marrying non-muslims
Take a look at 2:221... mentioned is that men should not marry unbelievers until they become believers. And the same for women. It just brings up the question of which people are "Believers." And the Qur'an itself is a sign from God and needs to be accepted...
I'm definitely not the most religious person out there, nor am I into religious studies. The argument of whether women in Islam can marry out of their faith can go on forever- though most scholars will discourage it. How I look at is, you have to think of the future generations. If you want them to follow your faith, it is best to marry someone who is a Muslim as well (the same advice goes to men too). I've seen many people who came from mixed religions and the kids end up going astray. IMO, it's not healthy for the marriage or the kids, that's why I don't recommend it. But if I come across a woman who married out of her faith, I wouldn't avoid her or not be friends with her. If I can be friends with people who date or drink, why should I not be friends with her? Parents on the other hand feel more responsible for religious upbringing. They will naturally be more hurt by the daughter's actions. And the community... well, they talk and that's their job.
But I do question the survey... perhaps the people involved were teenage girls who had huge crushes on non-Muslims and were day-dreaming of marrying them?
According to what I've noticed while reading the Qur'an, the members of the People of the Book who believe in one God (Allah), His Signs, and the Last Day, are believers. The Unbelievers are those who pretend to believe in God or reject Him completely. ***I could be wrong though.
Again, I'm not a religious scholar by any stretch of the imagination, but your argument would essentially make Christian and Jewish beliefs as valid as Islam...if believing in one God and the Day of Judgment is all you need to believe, then why do we even need the Prophet Mohammed and Islam?
Personally I believe that according to Islam, righteous Christians/Jews/Zoroastrians all will be rewarded for their good deeds, but there still is a very clear distinction between them and believers/Muslims.
Take a look at 2:221... mentioned is that men should not marry unbelievers until they become believers. And the same for women. It just brings up the question of which people are "Believers." And the Qur'an itself is a sign from God and needs to be accepted...
That isn't the only verse dealing with the issue.
Again, the Quran specifically makes an exception for Muslim men marrying women from the people of the book:
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...(Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are believers, but chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time...(Quran, 5:5)
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Re: dealing with muslim women marrying non-muslims
Marry who will keep you happy and likewise you to your partner for a lifetime, will be a good and stable father figure to your children. As for the rest it doesn't matter in my opinion. We make our own lives and will be questioned by only one. You shouldn't have to justify yourself to anyone else.
One of my aunts sibling's have all married non muslims and have long and happy marriages, as have the rest of my family who enjoy the same with muslim partners. Find the right life partner and enjoy a long and happy future. You don't have to justify this to any individual.
@shardmanny changed my nick? it's the same, emaanW .. ... yes the posts have become more political in nature ... but my story is quite long too ... i dont know if i want to post the whole "drama" here ... what i would like people to talk about though is ... how do you treat someone (a woman) who has married outside of religion or has a committed relationship with a non-muslim man? is her action really so bad that she should face physical abuse from her parents, have the community talk ill of her? is she really not a muslim anymore, and does this really break all relationships? i didnt come here to post my story and receive sympathy or be told what a bad muslim i am. i just want to know what people think about it and have a discussion over it without the burden of knowing faces.
but just to tell a bit. i had a relationship with a non-muslim man when i was younger. faced a lot of physical and verbal abuse at the hands of my father. some cousins went all weird on me. life became more strict. it was quite a traumatic experience. later i tried to be with a muslim man ... but what happened with him , i dont want to go in any detail, but it totally **ed me up ... more crap from home. **they tried fixing me up in a marriage with a guy from islamabad. wow! and they thought he was gem! i admit all this did turn me rebellious in the sense that i would deliberately provoke them at times by coming home later than the curfew, have a white guy drop me home, etc. but it just ended up getting messier and messier. and now a few months ago i left home. i am living by myself. they dont want to hear from me, and i dont want to be in that house again.
Re: dealing with muslim women marrying non-muslims
chaar din GS say ghaib aur itni lambi lambi threads ban jati hain meinay nahi sab kuch perhna! but just to answer the title.
i was watchin this youtube thingy last night. the scholar (??) was saying that we should not discriminate against those who in our view do not follow the islamic way. like gays etc. just becuz they are gay, doesnt make them non-muslims, and we should not label them as such. but, if that gay was to be goin around parading and promoting gayism, then that is wrong.
so is pas-e-manzar mein (sorry mujhay urdu bari yaad aa rahi hai :D) aap jo bhi faisla karein, apki zindagi hai. no problem. haan kisi ko haq nahi k wo haath uthaye. meray khyal mein jab bacha aik umr ko pohanch jata hai, to us per haath nahi uthana chahiye. so then i can perhaps understand why you did the things that you did.
just because you choose to do something should not make me cut myself off from you or think ill of you. rather help you even if u need me. (call me )
rahi baat muslim woman and non-muslim man marriages ki. aya ye ghalat hai ya nahi, pata nahi, as i see a discussion going both ways. on the available facts and data, i cant say 100% either that it is not.
but then again. some scholars even deny muslim men to marry non-muslim women. magr wo to baaz nahi atay. aur unka kuch jata b nahi.
hehehe .. sukhi raho shadaab raho whats wrong with me
Han aur kitney saudion ne apney Haram main Russain Tawifi/ jinhin woh kaneezain kehty hin rakhi hoi hain kabhi in per bhi yeh roshni dalin tu acha hu ga
meinay nahi sab kuch perhna! but just to answer the title.
)
aya ye ghalat hai ya nahi, pata nahi, as i see a discussion going both ways. on the available facts and data, i cant say 100% either that it is not.