There was a topic on GS which was exactly about this ... there is a way to preach, with love and kindness. If you act almighty and arrogant, then don't expect any followers - at least none who will actually sit and listen to you.
no i think the tread was about some harsh words which was thrown at op, in other threads.
islam doesnt need us, we need islam so people can really do what they want (short for thats just fine is they dont listen)
seriously???
no.....I mean.......SERIOUSLY???
yes seriously
because the prophet sallallahu alaihi wassalam told us, piety grades us!
Re: dealing with muslim women marrying non-muslims
Aslong as you follow Islam, does it really matter what other Muslims/nonmulims are doing? How is it anyones business?
...
of course, i know jack abt whatever, and you r the epitome of knowledge and reason ... the link is a talk over the study, not the entire study itself. if you want to know more ... why not mail the person and ask for the entire study? i am getting all "belligerent" because the sad reality of muslims is that they are full of themselves. so much that they've forgotten the distinction between right and wrong and cant get off their high horse of moral policing even on an ice-cream stand. go read the new article on pakteahouse[dot]wordpress]dot]com to get a clearer idea of what i am talking about.
what hudood punishment has to do with this is that when a woman chooses to stand up for herself, the obvious next step is a hudood punishment by parents, family, community or the law. do you even remember how brutally three teenage girls were buried alive in balochistan (one wanted to choose her own husband or something) ... and the act was lead on by the MPs of the region! they screamed in the parliament at a female MP who brought up the issue and shut her up because it is their ancestral tribal tradition and they will support it till the end! pakistanis are tribals ... far from religion! as for the confession part and that the act of penetration HAS to be witnessed by 4 people ... how the rule goes is one thing ... how the rule is implemented in real life is another .. i dont even want to talk about islam ... that hardly even exists! seen people like zobia on this forum ... the high-altar muslims ...
it may be nonsense to you ... i dont live off history books and theory to seek peace in. come back to reality sweetheart. it's tougher. but then again .. what isnt.
lol. and who says "people of the book" cant be idolaters?
precisely. who said that? YET they are permissible to muslim men. funny eh!
I getting a bit tired of this. What you want is acceptance, and to be honest you ain't getting that from most Pakis. That's just the way their DNA is wired in. The tolerance gene is pretty rear. So get on with your life, and stop carring what the rest of the community thinks. In my experience, the parents and siblings always come round, unless you are from Azad Kashmir way.
Trust me, you will feel better.
go read the new article on pakteahouse[dot]wordpress[dot]com about the recent ahmedi-spree-killing and the pakistani reaction.
60:10 ** anyone who doesnt believe in Allah and His messenger Mohammad peace be upon him is a disbeliever, I hope that is clear to you Ms Emaan**
btw, what you're doing now is wrong, walking away from your family, living on your own (which am not sure, am worried that you're probably living with some white man who isnt a muslim, since you dont like muslim men) well thats another big issue and I dont want to start assuming, all I say to you is,** go back to your family and be patient with them, because then Allah will reward you**, as Allah says
thank you very much for your concern. i know 60:10 pretty well and it's very clear to me what you've said. disbelievers are haram to men as well. i hope you understand that well enough too.
i am terribly sorry, but i do not resort to self humiliation at the hands of my own blood only to seek Lord's approval of my ways. victim and victimization is both a sin. and no, to rid you of your deep distress of the fear of me living with a whity out of wedlock ... is not happening. so you can stop assuming.
i will pass this bit of reward easily. no questions asked. i was patient long enough. i wonder why this bit of advice is not given to men enough.
Aslong as you follow Islam, does it really matter what other Muslims/nonmulims are doing? How is it anyones business?
i dont know why it is anyones business. but it just is. and i'm bloody tired of it.
people will talk regardless. if my morality is not a mirror image of my neighbour on the left, the right, the front, the back, the close relatives, the distant relatives, the city fellows, district fellows, country fellows ... m pretty much an outcast. and guess what ... none of these peeps even in themselves are a mirror image of anyone. they all pray different, perform ablution different. they even have issues marrying outside the specific rajputs! wha kind of crap is that!!!
im better off.
i am feeling happier and better than the first time i stepped outside my house. freer, independent and self-responsible. my crap will come back to bite me, no one else. same goes to everyone else.
Glad to see you admit it.
I wasn’t doing any moral policing. I asked a simple question about the methodology of the study that you yourself brought up as evidence for your arguement. You couldn’t answer said question, so you decided to launch into irrelevant tirades, and generally behave like a petulant child.
Honor killings are not the same as hudood punishments. And again, what does the traditional punishment for adultery have to do with the topic being discussed?
Exactly. You’re talking about tribal traditions that have absolutely nothing to do with Islam. Which of course is why there are plenty of Muslim societies where honor killings are virtually unheard of, and plenty of non-Muslim societies where they are fairly common:
Why Are Hindu Honor Killings Rising in India?
I brought up “history books and theory” because you claimed that Bukhari advocates unequal punishments for adulterous men and women.
Try to keep track of your own arguments in the future.
Re: dealing with muslim women marrying non-muslims
From what I have read, it says that the man should a believer...believing in the oneness of God/Allah. Now if he belives in oneness of Allah/God, doesn't associates anyone with him then he is a believer, it shouldn't matter if he is labeled muslim or not.
Wonderful to see how GS is your ultimate resource to feel so proud of yourself over pathetic gibberish. Is this your sleep medicine? awwwww …
The reason to bring up punishment for adultery was just an example to tell you that being a complete muslim also asks for belief in rajam. and if you believed in it, since you were so adamant on finding out whether the people part of the study were “really” muslims. it was not meant for sidetracking the subject as YOU did, and are now accusing me of derailing the thread. please go back and read. as for my annoyance at that point which caused you to be irritated and now are eternally irritated, i beg for an apology. i hope this would calm you down. an apology does not belittle anyone. only if you knew really what i’ve had to go through. but you dont have to. this forum is full of stuff that has left me completely gobsmacked of what people think like. eye opener really.
but it’s also funny how people like you try to bring “others” into light and try to squeeze themselves back into the shadows. who cares if the hindus or the jews commit honor killings. clean your own house first.
what you asked wasnt of any profound importance that it needed a dissertation on my part. questioning “what is a muslim” is silly. and that is what you were aiming to do. a question that would wipe the entire population off the planet.
but since you’re so itching for me to talk about bukhari and rajam … well … here it is:
i know there are several other hadiths where both are given equal punishment. but what is in the book apparently doesnt matter. go look for atefah sahaleh. there is an entire documentary done on her by BBC.
and to get to the more substantial source, the Qur’an:
yusuf ali’s translation:
24:2 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
hilali khan’s translation: (one that has taken over yusuf ali’s and is the common one now)
24:2The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse – lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment.
hilali thought … hmmm … why not make it difficult. and like this, stoning will remain in tact.
**BUT: (over slave women in marriage)
**
Hilali
4:25…]But once they are sheltered in marriage, if they should commit adultery, then for them is half the punishment for free [unmarried] women…]
yusuf
4:25…]when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women…]
now. whether these are tribal traditions that are just tribal, or have taken root from some place in the judo-Islamic tradition … you can judge for yourself.
**according to the Quran, a free, chaste, believing woman is forbidden to a believing man who has committed adultery, and vice versa. but in today’s world, where so many men and women commit adultery, tell me … who asks during the rishta-parade .. beta, my daughter is a virgin, are you? cuz otherwise, the marriage would be illegal. and like plenty of desi men abroad who have their fun and then go home looking for a virgin … then nobody cares. because it is to somebody’s advantage, a.k.a the larka ki family … who are somehow superior in role and weight to the girl’s family. i could bring several examples in .. but then you’ll see, i’ve derailed the thread.
**
**i hope you’re at peace now, and can go back to the actual topic and stop coming back with adultery and hudood yet again.
**
since you were so adamant on finding out whether the people part of the study were "really" muslims.
The study you referenced was about what religion is followed by the children of interfaith marriage. It's entirely valid to ask how the researchers determined the religion of each couple's offspring. It was never my intention to judge who is and isn't Muslim; but since your "study" purports to do precisely that, I was simply asking what criteria/methodology they used. I honestly don't know if there's any simpler way to explain this to you, but I suspect you still won't be able to comprehend the question.
I'm sorry you can't understand simple written English. I'm sorry you're in such a foul mood that you feel you need to misread additional ulterior motives into every question. I'm sorry you're so ignorant you can't even respond to a simple question without launching into a ridiculous, irrelevant diatribe (which YOU continue below).
but it's also funny how people like you try to bring "others" into light and try to squeeze themselves back into the shadows. who cares if the hindus or the jews commit honor killings. clean your own house first.
It's funny how people like you will admit that crimes like honor killings are "tribal traditions" that have nothing to do with Islam, but will still attempt to malign Islam with them.
i know there are several other hadiths where both are given equal punishment
That's why no one bases legal rulings on single hadith interpreted in isolation.
i hope you're at peace now, and can go back to the actual topic and stop coming back with adultery and hudood yet again.
If you want to stop discussing it, then stop dragging irrelevant nonsense into your tirades.
dbl post....
Re: dealing with muslim women marrying non-muslims
QUOTE=emaanW;7393560]*First of all, I support a muslim woman's right to marry a non-muslim man (christian, jew). *
My qustion to u is who gav a Muslim women this right, Islam or West or u urself? i agree with firenze here its simply not allowed for women no matter how much u wanna twist religion things can't be changed for few individuals who hav prob accepting rules of Islam.
why is God going to punish me for not being able to find happiness with a muslim man (i've only found misery there, this world isnt perfect ... maybe you have found luck with it, i havent, so should i kill my needs?) ..
[/QUOTE]
Because he's God our creator and u r disobeying, rebelling n breaking his rules for ur own satisfaction. if u break a rule any place at school, work place in ur country u get punished so how can u skip God or how can u even question him? If u like a non-muslim or believer of holy books u can always invite him to turn to Islam. if that person is serious abt u he'll understand ur limits as a muslim and will either try to learn abt Islam or just turn away. if one muslim led u down that doesn't men only non-muslims can n will keep their women happy.
Re: dealing with muslim women marrying non-muslims
I support people's choice to marry across ethnic and religious lines.
It appeals to intuition that the poll showed more men to be opposed to it. First, it was a subject that limited only women's freedom and not those of men. Thus, they were more easily able to erect a barrier that does not affect them. I wonder how the poll would have resulted if you had simply asked about marriages across religious lines for men and women versus for women only.
Also, I can imagine some men perceiving such a marriage to be intrusion on their grounds. When interracial dating began, it was perceived a greater intrusion by whites if a black man dated a white woman versus if a white man did the same with a black woman. In the latter example, it was probably black men who felt a greater intrusion.
There are good people across all religions. Marrying into same religion creates greater commonality and less places where disagreement might arise, which has its own value. Aside from this point I see no reason that works against the idea.