dancing boys of afghanistan

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
41

Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

you are free to deduct your own conclusion. I never said that.

All i said and did was to point out a societal trend in certain societies....and that trend was "pronounced interest in boys for sexual reasons" in Afghanistan, NWFP and some other segments such as madrassas and churches....

and then i gave my opinion of potential reasons that are contributing to this trend....i pointed out "more-than-normal" male/female segregation in these societies amid religious and cultural reasons as a key contributing factor but since i brought religion into it, many people started jumping up and down ferociously ... fine, keep jumping..it is good for health...i have my viewpoint and i will stick to it.

and sure keep on bringing west into if it makes you happy... focus shd be on finding solutions to our problems... not on pointing out that others are doing the bad stuff as well... plus i said many times the way this problem is pronounced and practiced at a societal level in afghanistan, NWFP and certain segments of Muslim countries, it is not practiced the same way in the west...so lets not confuse different topics

for example, lets talk abt alcohol ... it is used so progressively at a societal level in the west but yes some people consume it in pakistan and saudi arbaia as well...but is it the same thing? of course not... in pak it is not a common practice...that is the difference i am trying to point out in molestation case as well.

42

Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

why would I want to deduce anything or make assumptions.
I asked you a straight-forward question.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

sure..may be i did not hear it correctly!!! after-all you live in a dark dark room, down a dark, dark stair...........

but you know muzna, that was a loaded question.. of course answer is NO.

and the discussion is not abt "should we" or "should we not".....

discussion is about a certain behavior and practice which is already happening and question is why is it happening so that we can fix it

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

Completely agree...it's more of a power trip for them. In most cases these men are married so they are not really deprived...I guess it's true that "power corrupts"!

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

I just wanted to ask, is it nice there in your small bubble? If so, can I join?

Do you know how many cases of pedophilia there are in the West? The registered cases are just a small tip of the iceberg. What isolated incidents are you talking about? Do you know how many western 'social workers' who go to poor countries to open a children's home or a school get caught because they are dirty perverts? Or the sex tourists? Or the 'decent' fathers, bankers, or bigwigs who are indulged in such acxtivities? No, you dont.

There is no difference between western pedosexuals and 'muslim' pedosexuals. (except for the fact that the first group will be seen as 'just' pedosexuals and with the latter group the focus will be on their religion aswell. Just like you are doing).

They are pedosexuals/pedophiles and they need help. They need to be protected from theirselves and children need to be protected from them.

Unfortunately, it is difficult to identify a pedophile/pedosexual. Unless he spreads childporn or gets caught while assaulting children. Sadly a child or more had to suffer by then.

Yes, we should focus on the issues in our society. But don't spread false information.

Stay realistic and focus on the main issue. That is not a seggregated society.
It is the fact that an adult has wrong feelings for children, and can't keep these feelings in control.
It doesnt matter where such an adult lives and how much freedom/education/wealth he/she has. The feelings will not go.

A difference with western societies however is that there is less taboo on the topic and there are helpprogrammes for pedophiles.

And your example of comparison with alcohol doesnt even make any sense.

46

Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

Uncles and teachers do it as wel.

It's a problem anywhere and really not a religious or segregation problem. And yes, sometimes feeling empathy for those molesters seem weird but some just can't help it.

Even women do it but you rarely hear about it.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

This point made me look up some stats and I’m even more horrified at the shocking number of victims a child molester has on average:

Interviews guaranteeing complete confidentiality and immunity from prosecution, conducted by Emory University psychiatrist Dr. Gene Abel*, uncovered that:

  • Male offenders who abused girls had an average of 52 victims each.
  • Men who molested boys had an astonishing average of 150 victims each.
  • Only 3% of these crimes had ever been detected

Child Lures© Prevention

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

fine...you can live in your bubble and i can live in mine...no problem..

no one is denying that molesting is a worldwide phenomenon ... we all know that .... yeah there are sex videos of kids and yes uncles also molest kids and what not ... and yes some NGOs wokers do that as well

but no it is not a widespread practice **at a societal level **in the west or many other societies as it is in Afghanistan, NWFP and madarssas/churches .... in west, people who are involved in these kind of activities will have some serious problem and will opt for boys even if women are available..but in afghanistan, NWFP, most of the male adults especially in rural areas will be doing it coz they have no other choice...that is the difference

and proof is there for you to experiment.....if you are a good looking boy under 20, just go to NWFP or afganistan and live there for a month without being approached by several folks who want to have fun with you and then do the same in any western country.....you will get the answer...

and what is western pedosexuals and 'muslim' pedosexuals nonsense? lol..i never said muslim molesters and western molesters dude...i am saying church folks are doing this as well.....

AND NO ONE IS SAYING THAT IT IS HIJAB RELATED AND THE MOMENT WOMEN WILL TAKE HIJAB OFF EVERYHTING WILL BE FINE...why are you guys so defensive?...why is "your islam" in danger all the time? all i am saying that in these societies women factor is completely absent and that is not a normal society..

did you even see the video? dont lie..did you? did you see the extent of the problem at a societal level in Afghanistan?

bottom line, do you believe that the boys molestation is as pronounced at a societal level in the west as it is in Afghanistan, NWFP, rural areas of Punjab, madarasaas and churches? YES or NO? and the key is at societal level..again i repeat the key is at societal level..YES OR NO?

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

Where do you think female foeticide/infanticide is more pronounced? In the sub-continent or the west? Would you also blame that on the very religion that back in the day abolished this practise or would you blame that on the jahil soch of the people in the developing countries?

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

the jahil soch of the people in the developing countries....and i said many times in this thread, that the "ancient cultural traditions" is a major contributing factor as well but now those ancient cultural practices are practiced on the name of religion in these regions....

my focus has been on intense male/female segregation in some of this societies (afghanistan, NWFP), which happen to be muslim...and problem is that the moment you point out any evil act in "some muslim societies" in any discussion, people get defensive as if someone is attacking islam

but where did i say that islam preaches such intense segregation or promotes directly molestation.....i am just pointing out a social behavior and stating some underlying causes, as i see it (per my bubble!!!)

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

"Islam khatray mein he."

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

Or maybe the male adults in these areas do it because they also have the serious problems like the pedophiles in the west.

Unfortunately I am a very ugly, above 20 kind of boy, so wont be able to figure as a test subject.

So yes we assume a pretty 20 years old will be approached by several men. Can happen in the west too. In the west the pedophiles will be more careful though.
You talk as if those men who will approach a young boy with bad intentions are representable for the whole population. You fail to see that that is not the case.

We can also bring one of these boy-lovers from Afghanistan/NWFP/rural punjab and put him in a western country. We can check whether he runs to the women or to the boys.

"but we forget to mention this another type of societal cancer that is so prevalent in conservative male dominated Muslim societies"

In your first post you mentioned above. Plus you keep putting focus on the differences between West and Rural Pak/Afghanistan. That is why I startd this nonsense.
I didn't come up with it awain hi.

One...two...zen. Atleast I didnt say anything about hijabs. And I do not feel that my islam is in danger.

I have seen the video once before. Don't worry.

As for your underlined, bold made question, the answer is NO, because it's the sexual orientation, the love for young boys which makes these men do what they do. Society has nothing to do with it. The men in the rural eastern areas do it for the same reason as their western mates do it. And not because women are difficult to get.

The men in this documentary were dumb enough to openly talk/show about this on camera. Without blurred face.
No western pedophile will do that. Even the few who do want to talk about their disease, their faces will not be shown. Their names will nor be meant. Obviously the men in the video have not ben informed well.

I wonder if the men in the video knew whether everything will be recorded. I am pretty sure that the makers of this documentary have not been entirely honest to them. At 22.38 the anchor mentions that Dastaghar and that other guy start talking about what had happened to a young boy at another gathering.

Western pedophiles have the internet as their major platform where they can lure children in chatrooms, spread childporn, make videos and share it with fellow pedophiles, give each other tips on how to perform disgusting acts with children, make appointments to thoings to children.
Once in a while a pedophile network gets discovered. But again, that is just a tip of the iceberg. There are so many huger networks that include powerfull people aswell. It's a huge deep mess.

The dumb men in the video dont have the internet, so their platform are these gatherings where young boys come to dance and do more.

The men themselves said, that once the boys become 18 and start looking manly, they loose interest in them. Because pedophiles want young, hairless children. That is what attracts them. Not because they are women deprived, but merely because of their sick sexual orientation.

Thus, I do not see how this is different than in the west.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

thank you…that is really the central point…we obviously have a different viewpoint…i see boys molestation in the west more of an opportunistic exploitation by those who are either interested in boys-only or belong to porno industry and not a pronounced societal behavior vs i see that trend in "Afghanistan/NWFP/madrassas/western chruches/rural eastern areas a more pronounced trend at a societal level and much widely practiced even by those who are interested in women amid really strong segregation practices,so to speak … to say that men in afghanistan/nwfp, madrassas/chruches who are involved in molestation activity do this because they love boys only is plain naivety because it is hard to believe that such a large proportion would be interested in boys-only…

and to your suggestion “We can also bring one of these boy-lovers from Afghanistan/NWFP/rural punjab and put him in a western country. We can check whether he runs to the women or to the boys”…

amen to that …PLEASE do that…and actually i wish someone does this exercise for a bigger sample because that will prove my point, as i see it.

at this point we are going in circles…so no need to do that… but appreciate your viewpoint.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

Western pedophiles are often married with children, grandfathers, people with decent jobs. The kind of men about whom people say: I never had thought he would be like this.
Again I don't see a difference between a gora pedophile and that Dastagar guy. Except that the gora pedophile would never let any camera team record his actions.

How large is the population that is interested in boys only? Do you have numbers? No you don't know.
It's a known fact that there are many many anonymous pedophiles in the west who coorporate secretly, and unfortunately most of them remain anonymous. The ones that get caught are nothing compared to those who don't.

Anyways, when you will do your field research there, do show me your results.

55

Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

The fact of the matter is that we're going back into daur-e-jahalat. We're actually living in the age of ignorance. Some may blame religion for all the ills in the world and that's fine, that's their opinion. But in my view, it's the fact that people have deviated from Islam that's led to this jahil panna. If they understood and followed what Islam said about female infanticide, killing the innocent or this filth called bacha bazi, none of these would be an issue in this day and age.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

will do that...and oh by the way, plz let me know if you want to participate in that exercise. thx

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

There appears to be a major disconnect between what PD's position and its interpretation. First I don't think PD is blaming religion. He is blaming the misuse of it. In whichever religious setting - be it a mandir masjid or church. Of course any religion when followed as it should be will not support child molestation. PD also is not stating religion responsible for ALL ills. He is just assigning some of the cause to malpractice and misuse of religion.

We don't have to defend religion at all costs and be so defensive, IMHO.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

^ Toh mein bhi toh wohi keh rahi hun mere bhai, deviation from religion, misuse of religion, same thing isn't it? And PD understands what I'm saying which is why he said we agreed more than we disagreed. I'm not just blindly defending religion just for the heck of it, now you're the one misinterpreting. And that post btw wasn't directed at PD at all. PD se jis baat pe disagree kiya, wo baat PD ko samajh agayi and we agreed to disagree on that particular point and that's the end of it. I'm not attacking him now.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

Yes Huma. I think we are in agreement. Mai sirf yeh kehna chatha tha ki hum humesha religioun ko defend na karein. Aapney bhi yahi kaha hai. Kuch aur posters PD ke saath Panga le rahe hain! (It is all good).

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

aray kahay ko pereshan hotay ho babwa....thora bhot to chalta hee hai...ab kaya hai kay hum bee to bhot saray logon kay seenay pay daal moongtay hain......