dancing boys of afghanistan

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

no religion would say, go exploit kids..that is right but then religous inititutions also breed an enviroment where these crimes are committed..and it is not abt islam only

for example church.....we all know what priests have been doing for centuries...molesting boys....

and same is true abt madrassas and mosques where molvis have been doing it....

when segregation of societies take place, it is again because of religion or a certain culture but lately coz of religion... coz you cannot even see a woman face for months....women cannot leave their homes, or covered with hijab from head to toe when they come out

so religion does play a role....not directly but indirectly

what those westerns do in thailand with kids are still isolaetd actions and cannot be blamed at a societal level .... but what is happening in afghnaistan, NWFP and pakistan is much more common & pronounced and exist at a societal level...so there is a difference and that needs to be analyzed

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

don't forget the catholic church...(don't mean to start a religious war or stand up for islam or anything) just adding more evidence for the statement....that segregating women and men is one of the most ridiculous concept on earth.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

but what segregation are we talking about?
Islam only segregates where pardah and hijab are not followed......

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

Okay so in societies where women walk around nangi pungi, people blame them for provoking men into raping them. In societies where they observe pardah, again women are at fault for making the men oh so frustrated. Bechare mard karein toh kya karein.

The reason why I mentioned daur-e-jahalat was because there was no scarcity of women back then for the satisfaction of the desperate souls. The position of women in that age of ignorance was so low that they could be inherited and purchased like property or animals. So your argument that the lack of interaction with or the unavailability of women is what's making men abuse kids just goes down the drain because sexual slavery was prevalent even when a man could have any woman he wanted and as many as he wanted.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against free mixing of men and women, but to say that this will solve problems like rapes and child abuse is what I don't understand.

What kind of segregation is practised in Punjab? Certainly not the kind practised in Afghanistan. The only segregation I've observed in Lahore is at some events where men and women have separate seating arrangements but otherwise free mixing of men and women is not prohibited in Pakistan or India. So what's Indo-Pak's excuse for rapes? That there's still certain cultural limitations and values that prevent men and women in the sub-continent from mingling in the way that they do in the western world? Then what's the western world's excuse where hundreds of thousands of kids are molested every year? Why is child pornography such a problem in societies that are the complete opposite of Afghanistan?

And let's say the priests are frustrated because their religion forbids them to have a relationship with a woman ... but that's not the case with molvis because they have the freedom to marry and if that wasn't enough, female prostitution is available everywhere in Punjab but not in Afghanistan. And that is why I feel that the comparison between the "situation" of Priests and men in Aghanistan to molvis and men in Indo-Pak doesn't make sense.

Aap mujhe naive keh rahe the (jo mein hun I know I'm not street smart) but now you're being equally naive by saying free mixing of men and women is the solution to the issue of child abuse.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

but huma you are mixing different things

i already said that no naked female butt prade in the society but no complete segregation of male/female either.... and yes statistical data does suggest that societies with a healthy mix of male/female realtionship have less molestation cases.

females covering themselves head to toe in burqas or restricted to homes 24 hours...is not good for society... now that happens in Afghanistan and NWFP for sure and hence kids molestation is severely pronounced at the societal level...you cant say these are only few malicious folks who do that...it is practiced quite freely.

OK..so that is my response to Afghanistan and NWFP situation...religion and cultural based segregation is the biggest culprit in this case. if u disagree, that is fine.

Now lets talk abt punjab....you are actually supporting my viewpoint...yes in most of the punjabi urban areas, segregation is not as strict as Afghanistan/NWFP and therefore this problem is less pronounced but in madrassas and rural areas this segregation is again widespread..especially in madrassas and hence boys molestation is a very common practice there.....

and how naively u suggested "why cant these molvis just marry coz they are allowed to marry unlike priests"...wah jee wah.....kaya baat hai app kee.
these molvis usually belong to really poor income families and they cannot afford a marriage plus no one wants to give his daughter to a molvi..do u know that social dilemma? i am sure u dont..go to any village and ask abt this....hence these molvis spend first 40 years of their lives in madrasas among boys...and boys molestation is really high in these madrassas...

DO U HAVE ANY IDEA HOW WIDESPREAD BOYS MOLESTATION PROBLEM IS IN MADRASSAS AND MOSQUES IN PUNJAB? no u dont....and no, i never said whole punjab is plagued...i was referring to a certain segment.

now what those westerns do with kids are still isolated incidences and cannot be blamed at a societal level .... but what is happening in afghnaistan, NWFP and some other areas of pakistan is much more common & pronounced and exist at a societal level...so there is a difference and that needs to be analyzed

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

I have never been in favour of the kind of segregation that’s practised in Afghanistan. I’ve been brought up in a free society and I interact with the opposite gender all the time, it’s done me no harm and the men are equally respectful. What the hormonal teens get up to is a different story but that doesn’t put me off of the non-segregated lifestyle. So we’re on the same page when it comes to demanding a balanced approach to intermingling in a society. Though what is a “healthy mix of male/female relationship” is probably subjective. Can you name a city that you think has the right balance?

Also, the fact that there are less rapes in the western world is less to do with intermingling and more to do with good education & lifestyle and the effectiveness of the law enforcement authorities & judicial system.

Sorry, I still don’t agree that men are being forced to sexually exploit kids because they’re not getting the same satisfaction from women. That just sounds really degrading to me. We can agree to disagree on that.

PS: With regards to molvis not being able to afford nikah… bhai please… ab itna bhi ullu mat samjhein mujhe. :hehe: Shab bakhair to you.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

Disgusting.

These rapists need to be castrated and hanged.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

What is daur-e-jahiliyat? First time I am hearing about it. Where was this happening? Are there any legitimate historical evidences of this as confirmed by scholars and historians from an academic POV? Shocking.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

ok..lol…we agreed more than we disagreed.

It is all good…shab bakhair.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

now I know why little kids are raped in other western countries, thanks PD for opening my eyes.

31

Well said :k:

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

Another gem from PD. :smiley:

What a twisted logic. Men women segregating has nothing to do with people who commit these kind of crimes.

Even in non-segregated societies thousand of children and boys get molested.

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ncfv-cnivf/pdfs/nfntsx-visac-malesyg_e.pdf

Child Molestation Statistics | Child Molestation

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

Nice points PD. Always enjoy your logic. And your willingness to look inward. Sometimes such views are unpopular with the majority. Keep up the good work. And call it as you see it.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

i saw this documentary before too and its disgusting. also i hate the view that "men are *forced" *into it. nobody is forced into anything. men dont take responsibility for their own selves and come up with all sort of twisted logic to justify.
rape and molestation is widespread everywhere not limited to certain parts of the world. some people would blame anything and everything other than the abusers who are oh so helpless. . . NOT

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

its considered the time in Arabia before the Prophet (pbuh) was revealed his prophethood.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

This happens in mosques, as well as other places. The molvis also come from the people around them.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

Unfortunately these kind of crimes and criminals are part of any large society. Segregated or not.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

Don't forget orphanages, boarding schools, prisons. The point is, it's about a power differential between the boys and their "wards"...and no checks and balances on that power. Has nothing to do with the nature of the institution, but how it is organized. I also contend that once people with such tendencies become aware of such places, they probably gravitate to them. Not all churches are the same, nor Madrassa's...so the ability for vermin to "hide out" among these otherwise benign places probably varies.

This is rightly classified a societal problem, with very little religious dimension to it. Though it could perhaps be said that religion may provide a cover to such activities, as people may give the benefit of the doubt to people with religious pretensions. But whatever...that requires no extra vigilance by those (in particular) who are religious. Society as a whole must be committed to helping the victims.

Again, the link to Hijab and sexual deviation is tenuous at best. I don't think such people don't become pederasts because of lack of sexual contact with the opposite sex...they probably had these tendencies all along.

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

so pd.....do you also believe that a woman that dresses provocatively is asking to be raped?

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Re: dancing boys of afghanistan

Hmmna is right. The pre-Islamic era in Arabian history is referred to as the age of ignorance or daur-e-jahalat. Incest was common back then. I heard this from a female Alimah (scholar) on a tv programme as she was providing the tafseer of this Quranic verse:

And marry not women whom your fathers married what was in the past was shameful and odious, and abominable custom indeed. (4: 22)

This is the most legitimate evidence of incest in pre-Islamic Arabia for me. If you're looking for some other historical reference outside of the scriptures, perhaps the more learned people here can help, I'm not as well read. But I do know that there aren't many written accounts dating back to that era and that's expected because the society was mostly illiterate and there was no fully developed system of writing. So the sources of information for this period are limited to traditions, legends, proverbs, poems and Quran/Hadith.