Cursing for what ?! Sawaab ?

[bob_chasm]

Submission, may I ask, why are you asking? I am sure you are free to curse Satan, but what is your concern? thanks, ...

[bob_chasm]

“I repudiate An-najmi idha hawa and Alladhi dana fatadalla” and then he spat at him, but his spital did not fall on him. The Holy Prophet prayed: “O God, subject him to the power of a dog from among Your dogs.”Afterwards, Utaibah accompanied his father in his journey to Syria. During the journey the caravan halted at a place which, according to local people, was visited by wild beasts at night. Abu Lahab told his companions, the Quraish: “Make full arrangements for the protection of my son, for I fear the curse invoked by Muhammad (upon whom be Allah’s peace) on him.” Accordingly, the people made their camels sit all around Utaibah and went to sleep. At night a tiger came which crossed the circle of the camels and devoured Utaibah tearing him to pieces. (Ibn Abdul Barr: Al-Istiab; Ibn Hajar: Al-Isabah; Abu Nuaim al-Isfahani: Dalail an-Nubuwwat; As-Suhaili: Raud al-Unuf).

[AQ]

@BOY-NICE

This again shows that you really didnt bother to read my posts, I had given its answer to the next post of your's wherein you had given the link of this video!

i posted the video "after" reading your reply. It conforms with your post.

[BOY-NICE]

i posted the video "after" reading your reply. It conforms with your post.

Letme repeat myself again, I am talking about my post I made 'after' you had given the link and that post contain the answer of your question.

[Ma_Mooli]

Hmm...makes sense. I understand your point. And I am thankful that you brought it here. But still, we don't have any example where the prophet (saw) himself specifically cursed anyone in his life. Hence, this "cursing" might be allowed but not a very lovable and noble act in front of Allah (swt) (if done by humans). Because, if it were so, the prophet (saw) would have done it many times in his life, as the prophet (saw) don't let go even a single opportunity of pleasing Allah (swt).

It might not be a sin, but it indeed doesn't deserve as much of practice as some people do in present times, few of them even do so much that it gives an impression that they are convinced to gain pleasure and sawab from doing it with such a passion of hatred. The prophet (saw) taught us to love and pray for even the worst enemies of Islam.

Let us leave alone those who have died and serve our lives for those who are alive and in need of our help.

I am sure that if I am busy in cursing people while at the same time in place of this act, I could have done something more useful and beneficial for ummah but neglected it, I would be held answerable for that on the day of judgement. Cursing doesn't benefit anyone, praying does!

May Allah (s.w.t) guide us all towards the right path.

im sorry but this is getting quite ridiculous. In an effort to project your veiws, you have insulted everyone and anyone that matters.

First you indirectly insult God, by putting Him on a lower moral pedestal than humans, (since when is it ok for God to act morally low?) then you insult Imam Ali (as), and now you're claiming higher intellect than the Prophet Muhammad (saw) himself.

what is going on?! you need to seriously read up before making such statements.

[quote]

Cursing doesn't benefit anyone, praying does!

[/quote]

yes dear, that is exactly what cursing is. you're mixed up through and through.

It is not forbidden, nor discouraged, nor is it 'a waste of time' as you percieve. Infact it part of the fru'edeen. Tawalla: to associate oneself with AhlulBayt, and tabarra: to dissociate oneself from thier enemies... and lanat is a the most passive form of dissociation (praying) and is equally as important. You cant just sit there and say one is better over the other inorder to justfy your random theories.

[BOY-NICE]

@Submission_To_Peace

Hmm…makes sense. I understand your point. And I am thankful that you brought it here. But still, we don’t have any example where the prophet (saw) himself specifically cursed anyone in his life. Hence, this “cursing” might be allowed but not a very lovable and noble act in front of Allah (swt) (if done by humans). Because, if it were so, the prophet (saw) would have done it many times in his life, as the prophet (saw) don’t let go even a single opportunity of pleasing Allah (swt).

It might not be a sin, but it indeed doesn’t deserve as much of practice as some people do in present times, few of them even do so much that it gives an impression that they are convinced to gain pleasure and sawab from doing it with such a passion of hatred. The prophet (saw) taught us to love and pray for even the worst enemies of Islam.

Let us leave alone those who have died and serve our lives for those who are alive and in need of our help.

I am sure that if I am busy in cursing people while at the same time in place of this act, I could have done something more useful and beneficial for ummah but neglected it, I would be held answerable for that on the day of judgement. Cursing doesn’t benefit anyone, praying does!

May Allah (s.w.t) guide us all towards the right path.

As I had stated earlier, there are reports of Prophet [s] cursing the evil doers and to me it is difficult to fetch all those reports at the moment since it is time consuming thing.

As your notion that we should leave the (evil doers) who are dead is again not Islamic notion since Allah [swt] and His Prophet [s] have reported the evil doers of past like Firown etc various times and have condemned them.

And lastly, it seems that you are critical of the act of cusing on the basis of exaggerated perception you have in your mind of being ‘busy’ in cursing the evil doers. It require half of a second to say “Lanatullah Ala Zalimeen” and that too you do rarely. So the use of word ‘busy’ here isnt appropriate. Just like Allah [swt], Prophet [s] and pious believers were noy ‘busy’ in cursing all the time but they did when required, similarly we do not take a leave from school/college/job and start cursing the evil doers all the day long. Hope this solves the confusion.

[Submission_To_Peace]

Re: Cursing for what ?! Sawaab ?

Allah [swt] and His Prophet [s] have reported the evil doers of past like Firown etc various times and have condemned them.

^ Brother BOY NICE condemn means

to express an unfavorable or adverse judgment on; indicate strong disapproval of; censure

Curse means the expression of a wish that misfortune, evil, doom, etc., befall a person, group, etc

There is a difference between the two. One include criticism, the other include a strong emotion of hatred.

Ma Mooli brother. With no offense, I wouldn’t answer negative meanings deducted from my last post without any consideration given to my previous posts for understanding my perspective.

I don’t know how many times do I have to repeat that pride suits Allah and not humans. If I condemn human’s pride that does not automatically mean that I insult God (Nauzubillah). IF still it is difficult to understand.

In short **FOR HUMANS
**
Curse = Hatred.

Prophet = Love.

Hatred NOT equal to Love

Prophet NOT equal to curse (Prophet does not curse)

And again I wont accept that prophet (saw) did cursing until you don’t provide me an authentic source. Full stop.

[BOY-NICE]

@Submission_To_Peace

^ Brother BOY NICE condemn means
There is a difference between the two. One include criticism, the other include a strong emotion of hatred.

Ma Mooli brother. With no offense, I wouldn’t answer negative meanings deducted from my last post without any consideration given to my previous posts for understanding my perspective.

I don’t know how many times do I have to repeat that pride suits Allah and not humans. If I condemn human’s pride that does not automatically mean that I insult God (Nauzubillah). IF still it is difficult to understand.

In short FOR HUMANS

Curse = Hatred.

Prophet = Love.

Hatred NOT equal to Love

Prophet NOT equal to curse (Prophet does not curse)

And again I wont accept that prophet (saw) did cursing until you don’t provide me an authentic source. Full stop.

I thought Quran ans Hadith was authentic source for you? Sorry, I dont have any ‘more’ authentic source than these two. I had shown you how Prophet [s] invoked Allah’s curse on the wrong doers.

As for your playing with the words, ‘curse’ doesnt mean to hate, rather its a supplucation to remove mercy from the pewrson who worth it and doent deserve mercy, such grave his crimes are. There are other words and ways to express ‘hate’. Thus mixing ‘curse’ with hate, the analogy doesnt hold up.

[AQ]

@BOY-NICE

Edit: Just thought to clarify the meaning of cursing someone so that no one here confuses it with ‘abusing’. Abusing is not allowed in Islam for sure but unfortunately some of the famed personalities of past made ali bin Abi Talib [as] its target but letse not get into that. **Curse, according to what I know is a supplication ‘to remove mercy’ from the person, while ‘abusing’ is all about calling names, which as I said, is not allowed. **

Thanks

The following video claims the same.

@AQ

Is this the type of cursing you guys are advocating?

[media]kr-hcy.com

@BOY-NICE

It seems that you had to post this anyway. **Had you bothered to read by post you wouldnt have since I had made it clear that there is a big difference between cursing and abusing. **I have heard the first couple of minutes of the link, and it clearly falls into the second category while the enemies of Shias have been trying hard to present abusing as curse (la’an).

That’s what the video lecture talks about. According to the video, the name calling of such nature is not abusing but cursing.

@AQ

If you would listen to it, you will realize that it is stating exactly what you are saying, that is, about the difference of the two.

@BOY-NICE

When you knew it then what was the point of posting it with the caption** “Is this the type of cursing you guys are advocating?”** Anyhow, it seems that we are going off topic now.

vv

@AQ

Very simple.

Since you were stating the same what was being said in the video, I posted it to see if you have any problem with the contents of the video. Do you?

@BOY-NICE

This again shows that you really didnt bother to read my posts, I had given its answer to the next post of your’s wherein you had given the link of this video!

let’s see:

@BOY-NICE

It seems that you had to post this anyway. **Had you bothered to read by post you wouldnt have since I had made it clear that there is a big difference between cursing and abusing. **I have heard the first couple of minutes of the link, and it clearly falls into the second category while the enemies of Shias have been trying hard to present abusing as curse (la’an).

Only if you had listened to the lecture, we would not be talking like that

@AQ

i posted the video “after” reading your reply. It conforms with your post.

@BOY-NICE

Letme repeat myself again, I am talking about my post I made ‘after’ you had given the link and that post contain the answer of your question.

LOL

[BOY-NICE]

@AQ

The following video claims the same.

That’s what the video lecture talks about. According to the video, the name calling of such nature is not abusing but cursing.

vv

let’s see:

Only if you had listened to the lecture, we would not be talking like that :bummer:

LOL

It seems to me that I wasnt cllear to you at that point of time. So here we go again. Even a child knows that there is a big difference between Cursing (La’anat) and Abusing (calling names). Lanat has been done by Allah [swt] and He [s] included all angels and all human beings in this act! But we find no example of abusing, of course, since it is character assassination nothing else. Thats why we see abusing has been forbidden in Islam, we have statements of Prophet [s] and of Ahlulbayt [as] in this regard. But for La’anat, we have examples of the very people doing it. Thus, these were my arguments, if you or anyone in this world have some proofs to equalize cursing and abusing, then he is more than welcome, mere (personal) statements by an individual is not going to have any importance particularly when, it contradicts of the above mentioned sources of Islam.

[aqeel123]

@Submission_To_Peace

And I repeat a noble and pious person like Hazrat Ali (r.a) can NEVER EVER spare even a single second for such a low act. EVERY second of his life was spent for the cause of Islam to spread peace for the love of Allah (s.w.t) and the Prophet (saw)

Salam in the other thread, i wasnt trying to convince u to send lanat when i said .. a low act is a low act doesnt matter if a sunni or a shia does it ..... I was trying to convince u not to call it a low act coz ALLAH did himself ...

To Brother Ibn-e-Siddiqe's post

whatever i mentiond above goes plus ... Of course we dont have to do what Prophet s.a.w did, we cant. we shld only do what he wanted us to do.

First of all u said the samething atleast similar if not same in other thread, that breaks through the logic of people calling Prophet s.a.w like them and providing the logic that "Prophet s.a.w is an example for us, we are to follow him and if he isnt like us then we cant follow him. So he is just like us."

So brothers we are not to do what ever Prophet s.a.w himself like marrying 9 or 13 wives we are to marry four the max. We can follow and do what Prophet s.a.w did as long as he didnt forbid us from doing it.

Now back to topic

@Submission_To_Peace

An act that is suitable for Allah (swt) might not necessary suit human beings.

Pride suits Allah (s.w.t), but is not allowed for human beings.

Humbleness and humility is must for humans, but does not suit Allah (s.w.t)

Allah (s.w.t) gets angry whenever He wants. And Allah has made it Haram for humans (according to a commonly know hadith)

The only example to follow is the Prophet (saw) and I still haven't seen any example posted by anyone where the prophet (saw) cursed anyone. I am not interested in any example of any suhabi, because that doesn't hold much value until we haven't understood the perspective of the King of both the worlds on this matter.

In above post brother SOP is saying something totally oppostie now ... Bro As u said Prophet s.a.w is rehmat-ul-lil alemeen, so i wud believe u if u said he didnt curse anyone. But again are we to follow Prophet s.a.w ? or what he wanted us to do ? well i clearly dont see him forbidding us from what ALLH does or not cursing a munafiq or kazib and others...

@Submission_To_Peace

An act that is suitable for Allah (swt) might not necessary suit human beings.

Pride suits Allah (s.w.t), but is not allowed for human beings.

Humbleness and humility is must for humans, but does not suit Allah (s.w.t)

Allah (s.w.t) gets angry whenever He wants. And Allah has made it Haram for humans (according to a commonly know hadith)

Oh come on bro, u r one the people in this forum who always tried to make some sense out of the argument and always leave something convincing in the post. but i dunt know why wud u say things like this..... ? where is pride in sending lanat on those who desrve ?

And most of all how can u tell what suits ALLAH and what doesnt

"The foremost in religion is the acknowledgement of Him, the perfection of acknowledging Him is to testify Him, the perfection of testifying Him is to believe in His Oneness, the perfection of believing in His Oneness is to regard Him Pure, and the perfection of His purity is to deny Him attributes, because every attribute is a proof that it is different from that to which it is attributed and everything to which something is attributed is different from the attribute. Thus whoever attaches attributes to Allah recognises His like, and who recognises His like regards Him two; and who regards Him two recognises parts for Him; and who recognises parts for Him mistook Him; and who mistook Him pointed at Him; and who pointed at Him admitted limitations for Him; and who admitted limitations for Him numbered Him."

words of Imam Ali a.s sermon on nahjul blagha ....

Now dont u think u are going wrong by trying to recognise his likes ?
please be careful when u say stuff like this. thanks

Wasalam
Aqeel

[Submission_To_Peace]

@BOY-NICE

I thought Quran ans Hadith was authentic source for you? Sorry, I dont have any ‘more’ authentic source than these two. I had shown you how Prophet [s] invoked Allah’s curse on the wrong doers.

Brother. Kindly forgive me if you mentioned a hadith and I missed it. I was referring to your words one post before the your above post. That is:

@BOY-NICE

As I had stated earlier, there are reports of Prophet [s] cursing the evil doers and** to me it is difficult to fetch all those reports at the moment since it is time consuming thing**.

I was requesting people to fetch me those reports (If they were able to find any). I have YET to see any such report mentioned by anyone, which is making it difficult for me to understand your perspective.

@BOY-NICE

As for your playing with the words, ‘curse’ doesnt mean to hate, rather its a supplucation to remove mercy from the pewrson who worth it and doent deserve mercy, such grave his crimes are. There are other words and ways to express ‘hate’. Thus mixing ‘curse’ with hate, the analogy doesnt hold up.

To wish bad for someone has an element of hatred, no matter how sinful person the cursed one is. Could you please show me any reference where the Prophet (saw) cursed Abu-Jehel (as he was the worst enemy of Islam).

[Submission_To_Peace]

Re: Cursing for what ?! Sawaab ?

Aqeel bhai, let us understand your perspective by following the order of seniority.

Kindly show me any authentic source specifically showing the prophet (saw) cursing anyone.

Then we would move one level down, and I would request you to show me from authentic source where Hazrat Ali (r.a) cursed anyone in his life.

I would be thankful to you for this act of kindness as it would help me more in understanding your perspective.

Wassalam

[aqeel123]

Aqeel bhai, let us understand your perspective by following the order of seniority.

Kindly show me any authentic source specifically showing the prophet (saw) cursing anyone.

Then we would move one level down, and I would request you to show me from authentic source where Hazrat Ali (r.a) cursed anyone in his life.

I would be thankful to you for this act of kindness as it would help me more in understanding your perspective.

Wassalam

Yaar phir wohi baat, i am not even trying to do above, my request is when u try to prove a point, just remember what ever u say is authenic from sunni prespective as well, i.e calling Sending lanat a low act. or Putting limits on What suits ALLAH and what doesnt... coz then u r limiting ALLAH.

Now as i said earlier that i wud trust ur words if u say Rasool s.a.w didnt curse anyone coz he is rehmat-ul-lil-alemeen .... so to me its not wether Prophet s.a.w did it or not ... its more abt Wether he has forbidden it on us or not.

About Imam Ali a.s doing it Ma moli bro already quoted a sermon...and we see sahaba fighting each other in battle field which is worst then sending lanat on someone.

Jumatulwida mubarik to every one :)
Wasalam
Aqeel.

[Pagluu]

Sunan Abu Dawood Book 22, Number 3327:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) cursed the one who accepted usury, the one who paid it, the witness to it, and the one who recorded it.

Sunan Abu Dawood Book 20, Number 3122:
Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) cursed the wailing woman and the woman who listens to her.

Sunan Abu Dawood Book 24, Number 3573:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) cursed the one who bribes and the one who takes bribe.

Sunan Abu Dawood Book 26, Number 3666:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah has cursed wine, its drinker, its server, its seller, its buyer, its presser, the one for whom it is pressed, the one who conveys it, and the one to whom it is conveyed.

Sunan Abu Dawood Book 32, Number 4087:
Narrated AbuHurayrah:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) cursed the man who dressed like a woman and the woman who dressed like a man.

Sunan Abu Dawood Book 32, Number 4088:
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:

Ibn AbuMulaykah told that when someone remarked to Aisha that a woman was wearing sandals, she replied: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) cursed mannish women.

Sahi Muslim Book 004, Number 1079:
'A'isha reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said during his illness from which he never recovered: Allah cursed the Jews and the Christians that they took the graves of their prophets as mosques. She ('A'isha) reported: Had it not been so, his (Prophet's) grave would have been in an open place, but it could not be due to the fear that it may not be taken as a mosque

Sahi Muslim Book 004, Number 1106:
Abu Darda' reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up (to pray) and we heard him say:" I seek refuge in Allah from thee." Then said:" curse thee with Allah's curse" three times, then he stretched out his hand as though he was taking hold of something. When he finished the prayer, we said.....

Sahi Muslim Book 41, Number 4808:
Narrated Hudhayfah:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) cursed the one who sat in the middle of a circle.

Sahi Muslim Book 41, Number 4890:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:

A man cursed the wind. The narrator Muslim's version has: The wind snatched away a man's cloak during the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and he cursed it. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Do not curse it, for it is under command, and if anyone curses a thing undeservedly, the curse returns upon him.

Sahi Bukhari Volume 7, Book 67, Number 423:
Narrated Said bin Jubair:

While I was with Ibn 'Umar, we passed by a group of young men who had tied a hen and started shooting at it. When they saw Ibn 'Umar, they dispersed, leaving it. On that Ibn 'Umar said, "Who has done this? The Prophet cursed the one who did so."

Sahi Bukhari Volume 7, Book 67, Number 424:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

The Prophet cursed the one who did Muthla to an animal (i e., cut its limbs or some other part of its body while it is still alive).

Sahi Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 820:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

The Prophet cursed the effeminate men and those women who assume the similitude (manners) of men. He also said, "Turn them out of your houses." He turned such-and-such person out, and 'Umar also turned out such-and-such person.

Sahi Bukhari Volume 7, Book 72, Number 815:
Narrated 'Abdullah:

Allah has cursed those women who practise tattooing and those who get themselves tattooed, and those who remove their face hairs, and those who create a space between their teeth artificially to look beautiful, and such women as change the features created by Allah. Why then should I not curse those whom the Prophet has cursed? And that is in Allah's Book. i.e. His Saying: 'And what the Apostle gives you take it and what he forbids you abstain (from it).' (59.7)

Sahi Bukhari Volume 7, Book 72, Number 817:
Narrated 'Aisha :

An Ansari girl was married and she became sick and all her hair fell out intending to provide her with false hair. They asked the Prophet who said, "Allah has cursed the lady who artificially lengthens (her or someone else's) hair and also the one who gets her hair lengthened."

Sahi Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 69:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:

For thirty days Allah's Apostle invoked Allah to curse those who had killed the companions of Bir-Mauna; he invoked evil upon the tribes of Ral, Dhakwan, and Usaiya who disobeyed Allah and His Apostle. There was reveled about those who were killed at Bir-Mauna a Quranic Verse we used to recite, but it was cancelled later on. The Verse was:

"Inform our people that we have met our Lord. He is pleased with us and He has made us pleased"

[Submission_To_Peace]

Re: Cursing for what ?! Sawaab ?

JazakAllah khair brother for sharing. I rest my case here. May Allah (s.w.t) forgive me if I said anything wrong, but my intentions were not bad.

Thanks everyone for your useful contribution as it helps people like me to learn and improve his way of thinking and knowledge.

May Allah (s.w.t) bless you all and your families with all the blessings of this life and hereafter.

Jumma-ul-Wida Mubarak to all of you.

Wassalam

[AQ]

Re: Cursing for what ?! Sawaab ?

All of the ahaadeeth mentioned above cursed those who are clearly violating commands of Allah and Rasool.

Why do Shias curse the sahaaba specially Sedana Abu Bak'r wa Umar wa Usman Ridhwaanullah Alyehim?

Are these personalities equivalent to such people who are cursed in their opinion/faith?

[Submission_To_Peace]

Re: Cursing for what ?! Sawaab ?

May Allah (s.w.t) forgive me for calling it a low act. A lesson to learn from all the above hadiths is to not specifically point out a person by calling his name but only make a general statement of curse for people who do and promote bad acts.

No matter if it is a suhabi or a common person of present age, cursing a single person by name might not be appropriate as the true intentions of a person only ALLAH (s.w.t) knows. We can NEVER be sure of what was in the heart of a person.

We all know how the Prophet (saw) became unhappy when a Suhabi killed a person who recited kalima when the sword was hanging over his head.

May Allah forgive all my mistakes in this discussion, and guide us all towards the right path. Ameen

[AQ]

Re: Cursing for what ?! Sawaab ?

Or how Allah showed a bit of anger… if anyone knows the context of Surah Abasa

[Robert]

we see sahaba fighting each other in battle field which is worst then sending lanat on someone.

thats a very good point.