Kaleem
the order makes sense, as long as whoever is taking care of the kids in the neighbourhood has some good excperience and can be trusted, is capable. Being a nice person and having good intentions does not always work.
I would rather leave children at a daycare with more than one caretaker per room and a couple of managers supervising their employees. Leaving it at a neighbourhood home to some lady is dangerous. She is not being supervised. Who knows what she does when alone. We all do weird things in seclusion.
Plus you don;t know what kind of people visit the house while your children are there. It's a very uncontrolled environment.
Madhoo, it ain't just about sex, stoopid.
It could be a variety of things - beating, leaving them hungry, or giving afheem to make them sleep through ( i heard of this case where an Indian nanny gave afheem to a gora child in NC. The parents got rid of her but the dad came back for more).
and what's wrong with my thoughts?. These things do happen. Our job is to minimize the risk factor as much as possible.
Fraudz you amongst all the people are the last I would have expected to have such a tough time understanding what I wrote. Or are you deliberatley arguing for the sake of it??? Maybe you did not read everything written. I said that when he takes care of any chores at home she looks after the kids but when he is away at work she has to take care of everything herself, kids and chores. Seems rather simple to understand to me.
I know very well that work is not a walk in the park. I have been working for 6 years now. He is not washing dishes while dealing with conference calls. He gets done with one job i.e. work and most often helps out when he gets back home. ofcourse if he gets back at 10:00 my sister won’t save it up for him rather do it all herself. Unless I’m completely blind I see no clash or overlapping between the two jobs. Driving and talking is multitasking not driving first and then talking.
And you say you have seen full time mothers take care of kids and aside from newborns the kid is not that tough??? 
What are you on about fraudz. Newborns are the easiest to take care of. They will sleep for more than half the day. yes the can drive u crazy at night. You probably don;t have any kids of your own yet. When you have 3 hyperactive chidlren between the ages of 5 and 2, I will ask you how easy it is. Thats the problem with you men. You assume looking after children is a breeze "
[/QUOTE]
feed em, wash em, play with em (or plop them in front of Tv as many stay at home mums do) and it still gives them time to watch movies, read books, and what nots. " While some women may indulge in such a routine not all do and it is a tough job for those who don’t. How much tv can the poor kids watch? Kids demand a lot of attention incase you didn’t know. Some kids can be very inquisitive and demand constant attention. Again it’s best you wait till you have kids of your own. If a mother can slag at home and dump the kids infront of a tv to take her reading/movie breaks so can the father slag at work outdoors. Not every hour of a work day, every day, is as demanding as you make it seem. and I am not talking about surgeons and stuff. Most of us get time to chitchat, come online, go for lunches, take breaks ect at work without any problem. When you are dealing with 2 or more todlers at home even a single break in a day becomes a luxury. There are always questions to answer, always fights to break up, disputes to settle, taking them in and out of the bathroom, 3 kids to bathe and get dressed, cook for them, clean for them, cook for them, keep them occupied, take them out, accompany them in practically every little thing they do does add up!
I first of all stated that with a single child no matter what the age of the child it is not such a big deal being a stay at home parent but with more kids all around the same age group it is almost next to impossible to deal with it and no full time job is comparable stresswise.
Madhoo honey, thanks for letting me know you are going on a break. But don't do that again. You sound like a frikkin' girlfriend. I don't care what you are doing or what you will be doing.
Femme, please don't ever write such long posts again. You were gone for over three hours and came back with this garbage for Fraudz. I am disappointed. You should have just ignored him.
Junglee I had to reply. I was working before that. I got a gift from somebody 
Oh yeah if its garbage don’t read it. It wasn;t for you anyway.
No, I didn't mean you wrote garbage. I meant it will fall as garbage on Fraudz ears. I mean you said the same thing so simply in your earlier posts. Why repeat the whole thing. I understood u the first time around.
I think he is now doing the BOLD and REBUTTLE thing with your post. Khair manaao.
Only if everyone was as perceptive and intelligent as you fg!
Both of my parents worked…and i turned out pretty normal 
I might have to re-think my stance on both parents working while raising kids.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kaleem: *
FF and CB, There are other options available. How about having a Nanny come to your house? This has several advantages:
- Baby is in familar surrounding, which keeps the baby calm.
- Safe environment for Baby.
- Baby will not get sick as often as the kids in day care.
- Nanny can pay more attention to your child (one on one) which is essentail and helpful in the development years.
- You will feel better knowing your child is safe. [/QUOTE]
Nanny it is then! Thanks for the help.
The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.
There's so much power in motherhood, it's the ultimate in femininity. Why would a woman want to give that up for something so fleeting as a career?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chandbeti: *
femme: day care is the only option. Ofcourse I would not expect him to take a leave when I am not taking one. I can take a maternity leave for like a few months, but that is it. And I am not against putting kids into the day care.
[/QUOTE]
Oh wow, a few months, mashallah what a huge sacrifice you'll be making.
I think you will one day change your mind, hopefully soon. You can't have a career forever and by putting it ahead of your children, you lose something very fundamental in life. A career doesn't give you love, if you're good at it, it just gives you recognition. A child gives you love and respect, he looks up to you and the relationship is just amazing. I don't think there can even be a comparison between work and motherhood, whether be it your own baby or adopted. And a child's respect and love are forever, not lasting only until retirement. A career can never give you anywhere near as much satisfaction as your family and children.
Like people have already said in the thread, the first few years of a child's life are fundamental learning ones. Why would you put your child in the care of someone for those few years who you probably you won't even know personally. Would you rather have your child look to you for guidance or find that outside the home, first in the daycare, then in school etc.? Why do you want to have kids when you see giving up work as a "sacrifice" and are not prepared to give your kids your all?
A child's love and trust are beautiful things, don't just give them away to someone else. I don't know anything else in the world that is as worthwhile as that. And that men never experience motherhood is not something to be envied, as seems to be your attitude.
^
and u think a child won't love a working mother or won't respect her? What are you trying to say here? Kids who have working mothers don't love them and don't trust them?
And I want a better life for me and my kids. Thus I prefer to earn some money rather than sitting on my arse at home. Why is it so bad huh? It's not the quantity hun, it's the quality of time I spend with them.
And what love are ya talking about hun? Kids "love" mums only until they are not in their teens, then comes the "rebellion" phase, the comes the leaving home for college, then comes the life partner thingy. Anyways kids leave home after they are like 19( mostly for college and then for job and then a seperate life).. so what am I supposed to do after that hun? Hunt for a job then huh?
Listne missy, I need something to keep my own identity alive, I can't just be someone's daughter, sister, wife or mom..I have to have a name for my own.
Job is for the betterment of the life standards. I can't lose myself in the quest to being the "perfect woman" ( as the society portrays her). Many middle aged women develop a low self esteem when they think they are not "needed" anymore by their kids. I know kids are precious and blah blah, but I can't sacrifice my only lifetime to end up hurt and miserable someday. I will do my best to raise them right and I know it can be done with me holding an outside job too. It's not something impossible, just needs a little bit more planning and work. I guess the ladies who choose to stay at home are plain lazy. They just don't want to juggle running the house alongsides working outside. Or may be the husbands aren't supportive enough. If the husband is supportive and everything is shared, working moms can raise their kids just as fine as the stay at home moms.
*Originally posted by Femme Fatale: *
**Fraudz you amongst all the people are the last I would have expected to have such a tough time understanding what I wrote. Or are you deliberatley arguing for the sake of it??? **
No, I am makign sure you state your position clearly. You can not argue that you did not think out loud whether men are capable of multitasking..you can not make statements like that and then pretend it never happened.
Unless I’m completely blind I see no clash or overlapping between the two jobs. Driving and talking is multitasking not driving first and then talking.
so he does not multitask at work? what job is that?
**And you say you have seen full time mothers take care of kids and aside from newborns the kid is not that tough??? **
yep, younger kids 2 yr old etc are on more cruise control and easier to deal with than new borns-infants..they have set routines for the most part and while they may be handful, they are not high stress nor
What are you on about fraudz. Newborns are the easiest to take care of. They will sleep for more than half the day. yes the can drive u crazy at night.
right..easiest to take care off, and drive you crazy at night… soemhow the 2 things dont really match up here..do they?
** You probably don;t have any kids of your own yet. When you have 3 hyperactive chidlren between the ages of 5 and 2, I will ask you how easy it is. **
nO i do not, but I have taken care of my sister’s children, and not only I, my younger brother has done so as well when she needed help and we went to her place during breaks to help her out.
**Thats the problem with you men. You assume looking after children is a breeze **
yet another chauvanistic remark, first men cant multi-task, next there is a “problem with you men” ..bravo
No its not a breeze, but it is def not as hard as 100 hrs a week as a surgical intern, or a flight control person, or a cop, or a travelling consultant putting in 60-70 hour workweek spending evenings travelling between client sites.
**"
[/QUOTE]
feed em, wash em, play with em (or plop them in front of Tv as many stay at home mums do) and it still gives them time to watch movies, read books, and what nots. " While some women may indulge in such a routine not all do and it is a tough job for those who don’t. How much tv can the poor kids watch? Kids demand a lot of attention incase you didn’t know. Some kids can be very inquisitive and demand constant attention. **
some, not all kids, and while they may demand constant attention, that demand does not prohibit you from doing other things. I remember my mum making a game out of cleaning the place for my bros and she would chase them with a vaccum cleaner, they will play while she would get her stuff done..
**Again it’s best you wait till you have kids of your own. **
agai, its best for you to be able to comment about what men may or maynot think or be capable of doing once you become a man.
what kind of argument is this?
As i ahve noted I have taken care of my sisters kids who are 2.5 years apart for weeks at a time when i was 24-25, and my bro did it when he was even younger…so I may not have my own kids but I do have experience taking care of kids.
**If a mother can slag at home and dump the kids infront of a tv to take her reading/movie breaks so can the father slag at work outdoors. Not every hour of a work day, every day, is as demanding as you make it seem. **
Okay so whats the hoopla all about, a stay at home mother is not on some assembly line for 24/7, why is it made out to be such a big deal then… ohh my god, this is so tough etc etc etc. yes it takes time, and yes it takes effort, but its not a go go go thing.
**and I am not talking about surgeons and stuff. Most of us get time to chitchat, come online, go for lunches, take breaks ect at work without any problem. **
and as a working woman you know that this is totally dependent on what type of day you have at work, just like a stay at home mum’s day varies on what is going on. Therefore..a stay at home mum is not doing soooo much extra work in any sense of the word.
When you are dealing with 2 or more todlers at home even a single break in a day becomes a luxury. There are always questions to answer, always fights to break up, disputes to settle, taking them in and out of the bathroom, 3 kids to bathe and get dressed, cook for them, clean for them, cook for them, keep them occupied, take them out, accompany them in practically every little thing they do does add up!
No one is saying it does not take time or effort, but it is not some high intensity high pressure work. its routine..day in day out, that is why many stay at home mums get bored.
assuming, that a stay at home mum has had some crazy day and as soon as the husband comes home, all is his responsibility is BS. she should take care of the place during day time, no matter what it takes, that is her role. he takes care of his reponsibilities at work.. no matter what it takes all day. when he comes back in the eve…the duties should be divided..
when women claim that theyd ont get time to do anything because of kids all day and then they can only do the stuff when the husband comes home and he does not help so he is bad or this and that, That is pure hogwash, Unless the women in my family are superwomen who were able to get everything done while taking care of their kids. My mum who took time off to take care of us was done with every thing by early afternoon. my brothers are 2 years apart so she had her hands full by your example, she played with them read them stuff, cooked, cleaned, did laundry… and only thing left for my dad to do when he was home was grocery shopping, fixing stuff which she could not get to.
** no full time job is comparable stresswise. **
No fulltime job is comparable??? hmmmm big words…sadly the women in my family, including my sister who is a doc feel that taking care of the kid was a breeze compared to being the chief resident at an ER, being a big-5 accountant during tax season, network support for a major multinational etc. I suppose if it is compared to some low level desk jockey then maybe its higher stresswise.
Originally posted by Sarah Splendor: *
*
Like people have already said in the thread, the first few years of a child's life are fundamental learning ones. Why would you put your child in the care of someone for those few years who you probably you won't even know personally. Would you rather have your child look to you for guidance or find that outside the home, first in the daycare, then in school etc.? **
...teh first few years may be more iportant, does not mean that the later years are not important? what do you suggest, dont send them to a school where there are people you dont even know personally,a nd get your kids home schooled? :)
By that token desis who grpw up in pakistan should all be well balanced, great ppl. somehow when I see what goes on there i wonder if that is due to their mother's care or what they learned outside the house. Answer is simple..outside the house...right..which means that the all of childhood is important. By your example then..kids should not be in anyone else's care or supervision until they are..what 25?
*Why do you want to have kids when you see giving up work as a "sacrifice" and are not prepared to give your kids your all? *
sorry..i think it is a parent's sacrifice to keep going to work away from their kids in order to give their kids a better future.
No Fraudz, I think going to school is important because the children learn social skills. But you are assuming a stay at home literally stays at home with her child all day. Not so. I said that in another thread too, that generalizations can be made from both sides: that all day cares suck and will make the kids turn out worst and that all stay at home mothers suck and put their kids on cruise control. I still think a mother who makes an effort to take her kid outside and show him places and provice as much stimulation she can is the way to go. And I also think that this kind of care, given by the mother, is better than a day care professional giving it, because that day care professional has no vested interest in my child, I DO. The professional will not teach my kids any values, I WILL.
Chandbeti,
I think all parents deserve respect. I was just referring to your attitude which is perfectly summed up in this line:
** I can take a maternity leave for like a few months, BUT THAT IS IT**
Like I said, if taking time off for your children is such a huge sacrifice for you, why do you want to have kids?
And what exactly will your identity be after you don't have your career anymore? If you say you will pick up hobbies and other interests, then so can a mother who has been a housewife after her kids have left.
I don't think you know much about parent child relationships. Most of us have gone through rebellious stages in life. In fact its funny bnut I had the exact same views as you a few years earlier. I've gone through it too, and now I am 20 and have been living alone since I was 19. But I have more respect for my parents and their opinions than ever. And I am sure that is the case for many guppies here. The nature of relationships changes over time.
And according to you, if a child's love is so fleeting, why not try to get as much of it as possible when they are very young?
And Chandbeti, don't overestimate money and material things, you can give those to your child and your child can throw them back in your face and give you all your money back but the time you invest in your child is a true measure of love. Anybody can buy someone something.