couples and sharing of duties-- a deeper dive and analysis

Lifestyle Relationships
1

This post is inspired by another post in this forum called “he makes me so mad” but thi was a broader topic not pertaining to that situation only so i decided to open a new thread.

It has to do with the household chores sharing between husband and wife.

I see many ladies complaining that their husbands dont help them. I wanted to do a better analysis of that.

I look at this in 4 separate time periods

  1. morning-breakfast-deparature for work
  2. working hours
  3. evening-bedtime
  4. weekends

lets start with the simplest

  1. weekends- husbands and wives should be sharing the workload equally, does not mean the same tasks, but means equal effort.

now for the tougher ones, and they depend quite heavily on 4 diff situations

a) married - only one person works
b) married- both work
c) married - one person works, other takes care of small kids
d) married- both work and have small children (or children in general n this case)

Now wouldn’t you think that the expectation of sharing domestic chores is not equal in all cases for both parties?

Now I hear married stay at home women complain that their husbands do not help them with household chores. I dont get it.

With an idealistic view that niether has a unduly higher share of overall work (both chores and job included) would it not vary

so lets adress time slots 1,2 and 3 based on situation a,b,c and d

2

also factor in time and effort stuff.

How much time and effort does it take? I remember one couple that i knew who lived ina one bedroom apt, newly weds, she did nto work, he ws working and their first big fight was that she said he did not help around the house.

My question was, if we break the time in hours, lets figure out what both of you do.

7-7:30 am- she gives him some breakfast (milk, cereal, OJ)
7:30- 8 am- he commutes to work 30 mins
8 am to noon- he works
noon-1 pm- he takes lunch break
1 pm to 5 pm- he works
5pm-5:30pm- he commutes back

I frankly did not understand how she felt that cooking one meal a day, doing one load of laundry twice a week, vaccuming one bedroom and one living room, wiping up one bathroom, and cleaning up after cooking was that much of an issue.

the guy was not some chauvanistic backwards type guy, the girl had just arrived form pakistan and I suppose had never handled responsibility.

this is btw my estimate of time taken to do some stuff

vaccum living room- 10-15 mins max.. i mean if its only 2 ppl, and unless every evening a huge mess is created..its just a matter of picking up some stuff and vaccuming.

clean bed room- same as above. make bed, vaccum, put away stuff that is out of place. 10-15 mins

bathroom- lemme see, 10-15 mins?

cook- unless its a feast..1-2 hours?

cleanup of kitchen 15-20 min..wipe counters, wash dishes (less time if you will just load it in dishwasher)

cleanup after dinner - 10-15 mins, put away food, clean dishes (les time if you are loading a dishwasher)

so lets see total time for these activities- looking at the max time estimate it is 3 hours and 20 minutes, if we look at the minimum time estimate its 1 hour 55 mins.

is that really a porblem?

3

Fraudz for a married couple without kids there is HARDLY any house work. How much of a mess can two people create afterall! So I don't think there should be any problems there UNLESS the husband has a bad habit of going out of his way to make a mess, or making a mess due to sheer negligence e.g. leaving clothes on the floor when he can hang them or put them in a hamper as easily. OR if the wife doesn;t want to do anythign all day long but sit on her bottom and want him to do stuff when he gets back. In either scenario we r dealing with people who r being unreasonable. But if they are somewhat reasonable they shouldn't have a problem.

With one person working and the other taking care of 2-3 children at home, I think the latter has greater responsbility. Its not just the chores but the kids that give u a greater headache. You are constantly on the run. So in this case the person at work is probably better off with a lesser headache and time off!

The other scenarios demand an equal splitting of resonsibilites.

4

Peer ji, these are interesting ideas, however, life with kids is quite different. There is nothing planned or very miniscule amount of tasks can be planned. Only "time" you are certain about is when to feed the baby(ies) in my case. The rest is...you do what you have to get everything else done.

5

Kaleem

i understand and that is why i have created sceanrio a,b,c and d because of the different circumstances. the toughest being both parents working, and have a small child, and mashaAllah in your case, 3 lil ones :)

and yes, I completely understand having non school age kids in the house makes the work tougher..but again, if a lady is a stay at home mom, has one non school age kid, is 8-9 hours too little time to get these majoe chores out of the way? Sure when the husband comes back he should help with the kids and whatever is left that needs to be done.

if a stayathome mom has school age kids, then the running aroiund behind them all day does not apply, but there is more cleaning, more time spent on helping with school work etc which, the latter is both parents responsibility, but surely if the wife is a stay at home mum, she can clean the place etc while kids are at schoo and husband is at work.

6

In my experience,

the women who stayed at home without children tended not to use their time wisely and would overdo it...they would dust/vacuum/clean the floors daily WHILE those that worked would do light cleaning through out the week but only do the above once week... Basically, you can make cleaning a one bedroom apartment a huge project if you insist on cleaning it from top to bottom everyday..I can think of better things too do.

I think if both people housework should be shared..this does not mean that 50% exactly...rather..one person cooks or cleans and it should in general add up to 50%... lately i've been cooking more because i get home and do it but my husband does some of the cleaning too...either way..the work gets done and we both share in it....

Fraudia,

I don't get the timing of housework...for us timing of chores isn't the splitter rather what needs to be done and the best time for us to do it.

In our house house work is done when we have time..i.e. weekends are for big stuff, bathrooms, floors, vacuming while we cook during the week, pick up after ourselves and clean the kitchen at that time too.
With a 2 bedroom apartment and both of us, in general picking up after ourselves..it's easy.
In the am, we're running to get ready and take care of our own needs, after work, if there's food to cook, whoever gets home sooner usually cooks... If one person cooks, the other washes the dishes and cleans up the kitchen.
On the weekends we both do it...

7

Hmm am I the only one who wants to do all of the cooking, cleaning, washing clothes and cleaning bathroom etc? I don't want to work and when my husband comes home tired from work after like 12 hours or whatever, I don't want there to be chikh chikh about hey, do the dishes etc. Same for the weekends, I don't mind doing the work. Lekin it all depends on how you see those chores. I know some women who make it a many hour mission but it really doesn't take much time to cook and clean. Bathroom can be cleaned before/during taking a shower, laundry you just stuff in the washing machine, ironing can be done quickly if you don't let it pile up, etc. And I would love to do this stuff for my husband :) cuz I used to love it when I would come home after school and my mom had everything done for me already but now that I have to do EVERYTHING on my own, it's a pain in the ass. so why put my husband through that? id love to get all of the work done before he comes home and then just spend time with him when he's there without stupid stuff coming between us or destroying our time together.

8

Originally posted by amelie: *
**In my experience,
the women who stayed at home without children tended not to use their time wisely and would overdo it...*

right, so they will make it a bigger deal than it is?

** it should in general add up to 50%... **

exactly my point

I don't get the timing of housework...for us timing of chores isn't the splitter rather what needs to be done and the best time for us to do it.

The timing of chores was meant to illustrate that houswork does not take a whole lot of time, and for home makers whose husband is away 8,9 or 10 hours working... if they put 8-10 hrs of effort on their house everyday, they would put martha stewart to shame, but they dont..if someone stays at home and even puts 3-4 hours of solid work in her house evryday, not only would it sparkle but at the end of the day chores wise only thing that needs to be done is washing dishes after dinner, taking out the trash.

*In our house house work is done when we have time..i.e. weekends are for big stuff, *

Same for us, during the week its as u said, just make sure we dunn mess up the place..

In the am, we're running to get ready and take care of our own needs, after work, if there's food to cook, whoever gets home sooner usually cooks... If one person cooks, the other washes the dishes and cleans up the kitchen.

Right because you are both working..Its the same situation with us, but when i see women who are not working complain or I go to their houses and the place is a mess..its really not due to lack of time, its lack of interest, lack of concern.

*On the weekends we both do it... *

good approach, thats our style too.

so let me ask you a question...if someone does not work, and her husband does...should she not be takign care of the majority of choreson a daily basis?

9

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Fraudz: *
*Originally posted by amelie: *
**On the weekends we both do it... *

good approach, thats our style too.

[/QUOTE]

A lot of couples look forward to the weekend "to do".

10

SS marry me :blush: :flower1:

11

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
so let me ask you a question...if someone does not work, and her husband does...should she not be takign care of the majority of choreson a daily basis?
[/QUOTE]

If there are no kids, yes she should do all the housework..that's her contribution to their family.

When there are kids involved...I think the house work doubles/triples and never ends (i.e. there's always food to cook, laundry to do, things to clean) and I think that could get frustrating..so I would probably hope that if I were staying home with the kids, my husband and I would share in childcare on weekends and evenings and I would still do most of the house chores.... however, I think this is where it also gets much more difficult to figure out a nice split...

I know a friend getting a divorce and his soon to be ex-wife, from pakistan and all of 21 had no interest in getting her drivers' liceince, working or going on with school, she wanted to be a housewife and then would sit and complain about being tired of doing housework..In my husband and my opinion how much work was there really to do? The have a 2 bedroom condo and 2 people living in it. However, there are other families with kids and the wife works AND does all the housework..that isn't fair either...

12

In all honesty SS I wouldn’t mind being a housewife at all, as long as my husband didn’t take it for granted of course or make me feel like his maid! Imagine the joy of not having to rush to work in the mornings, not having to drive thru rush hour twice a day, take a nap if u feel up to it, set ur own schedule for the whole day and do stuff that you want to do. House stuff doesn’t take all that long, esp. not when there r just the 2 of you. Even with a single child you can keep things under control. You can go out and take care of groceries during the day too if you have your own car and leave the weekends for pleasure and fun. Take a class or two during weekdays, learn a new language, how to play a piano, just fun, enriching stuff ofcourse making sure that the house is in top order first.
BUT can you really be so sure that every thing will carry on as smoothly? Lots of crap happens in life. If God forbid it came to the point where you have to carry on on your own what then? No savings, no job, no experience and having to start over. That’s a nightmare in it self.

I had a friend who lived in a one bedroom apartment and complained about the fact that her husband didn’t help her with the house work. Now keep in mind that the would leave dirty clothes all over the place, leave his shoes socks in the middle of the room, never pick up his dishes after eating etc. That is not fair and I too would be unhappy in such a situation. That’s more like demeaning the other person and making them work more than they have to. In my opinion it is the same as squandering your husband’s money and making him work overtime or a second job. Both are wrong attitudes.

13

*Originally posted by amelie: *

**
When there are kids involved...I think the house work doubles/triples and never ends (i.e. there's always food to cook, laundry to do, things to clean) and I think that could get frustrating..so I would probably hope that if I were staying home with the kids, my husband and I would share in childcare on weekends and evenings and I would still do most of the house chores.... however, I think this is where it also gets much more difficult to figure out a nice split...**

agreed, and it varies with whether the kids are school age or not, because if they are, even though you amount of laundry and amount of mes to clean up increases, but during the day there are no real interruptions. With smaller kids it is a multi tasking thing.

*..In my husband and my opinion how much work was there really to do? The have a 2 bedroom condo and 2 people living in it. *

The couple whose example I gave had similar issues, so guess what they do to save their marriage... the einsteins decided to have a kid..sheesh..

** However, there are other families with kids and the wife works AND does all the housework..that isn't fair either... **

Not fair at all, i know quite a few ppl who are either the wives who is doing all the work as well as a fulltime job or husbands who are kings of the castle.

I know entirely too many anties in pakistan who have a massi come in and do the dishes, laundry and sweep. mop every day, yet still they complain about housework, and still the house is a mess. I guess they need a professional organizer in addition to a maasi.

14

BUT can you really be so sure that every thing will carry on as smoothly? Lots of crap happens in life. If God forbid it came to the point where you have to carry on on your own what then? No savings, no job, no experience and having to start over. That’s a nightmare in it self.<<<

I'm not going to go into my marriage keeping the "what if we get divorced" scenario in mind! I mean if you're thinking that then that marriage is either not worth it or there is something wrong with your attitude. And if you give your all to your home, to your husband and to your kids, then that automatically means that you are committed to it all. Divorces just don't "happen", theres something going on thats leading toward it and like everything else in life, if you dont work hard for it, youre gonna lose it/never gonna get it. and i dunno, i like the thought of making my family my first priority, not money or work or whatever. What gives more happiness than loving your family and your husband loving you back?

15

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sarah Splendor: *
Hmm am I the only one who wants to do all of the cooking, cleaning, washing clothes and cleaning bathroom etc? I don't want to work and when my husband comes home tired from work after like 12 hours or whatever, I don't want there to be chikh chikh about hey, do the dishes etc. Same for the weekends, I don't mind doing the work. Lekin it all depends on how you see those chores. I know some women who make it a many hour mission but it really doesn't take much time to cook and clean. Bathroom can be cleaned before/during taking a shower, laundry you just stuff in the washing machine, ironing can be done quickly if you don't let it pile up, etc. And I would love to do this stuff for my husband :) cuz I used to love it when I would come home after school and my mom had everything done for me already but now that I have to do EVERYTHING on my own, it's a pain in the ass. so why put my husband through that? id love to get all of the work done before he comes home and then just spend time with him when he's there without stupid stuff coming between us or destroying our time together.
[/QUOTE]

I think most (decent) guys would find this arrangement very appealing especially for those who give great importance to family upbringing.

Anyway, for women worrying about getting divorced, lets be honest in most western countries divorce laws do generally side with women.

16

Lately I have seen more than a few cases where couples are divorcing because of the husbands infidelity. In a couple of cases the wives did more than their fair share of compromise and put up with a lot of crap. But the husbands still went ahead not just with second nikahs and affairs but are also giving their wives an extremely hard time for a divorce. In this other case the guy quit his job so he has to pay minimal child support and once the divorce is settled he will look for another job. They all started off as enviable happily married couples who had known eachother for atleast a couple of years before they got married. God forbid that happens, but life doesn't come with guarantees. Who knows what life has in store for you. In addition to putting faith in God you have to watch out for your own interest too. You should have something to fall back on. And to top it all, most of our eligible desi bachelors look for professional women when they talk of partners! There arent too many left who want full time housewifes! A pity but true.

17

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Femme Fatale: *
And to top it all, most of our eligible desi bachelors look for professional women when they talk of partners! There arent too many left who want full time housewifes! A pity but true.
[/QUOTE]

I think they look for it for 2 reasons..

1) economic necessity, if nto for their own lifestyle, then what they can do for their kids. I mean I dont see women going out in droves to find guys working as school teachers or lab technicians either..due to financial reasons.

2) They dont want their wives to turn into mohallay ki buaa type aunties who have too much free time to just get into that stuff.

18

It's kind of depressing to know that divorce is even a consideration, but I guess it serves to stress even more that you marry someone who matches your outlook on working and divorce and stuff. if that guy is committed to money and lifestyle and not to religion and your family, then pass, he's not worth it. It was a huge comfort having my mom at home and I don't envy kids who come home and they have to cook and stuff. Sure they learn to be independant but thats not the point, the point is family values and I personally dont think an environment where both the woman and the man is working has great family values.

Fraudz, women who don't work aren't idle and ideleness doesnt mean you are fat and lazy and that you gossip. Tons of working women gossip too, thats a personal trait, not something determined by you working or not. If youre a busybody, youre gonna gossip anyway. And women who dont work dont just sit at home, they can volunteer, take up new activities or sports or something, learn new things.

It's so sad that divorce is so prevalent and people dont emphasize family as much anymore. I guess you can be careful who you marry. And FF, guys dont just suddenly become cheating idiots out of the blue, there has to be something there before marriage too and something that youre doing wrong as well if he feels the need to cheat. If you marry a guy who believes in religion and believes in sticking to his family, then you can make it work.

19

I don’t think the choice is only whether to work or stay at home … there are many in between situations and modifying factors.

Being a stay at home mother with small chldren can be very stressful - simply because of the lack of sleep and the need to be on call 24/7.

A lot depends on the relationship. When a couple can communicate well they can usually work out priorities - i.e. what is important as well as who does what. When a couple can agree that it is important, for instance, that having sparkling windows comes way down the list and certainly long after enough sleep, there is usually less problem. When a husband is versatile enough to iron his own shirt he might just reap the rewards in a more comfortable home atmosphere.

Obviously everything changes whan both parents are out all day and the evening is the only time they have for communcation AND jobs.

Rarely are situations stable and unchanging forever even when there are no children in the picture although their arrival is usually reason for a great upheaval. A change in a job, one’s personal needs, health etc can also change the way you look at time use.

Personally I’m not great about cleaning but I know it has to be done so I simply try to avoid making messes and clean rapidly and efficiently when necessary.

The “fly lady” site has some great ideas : see http://www.flylady.net

20

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sarah Splendor: *
Fraudz, women who don't work aren't idle and ideleness doesnt mean you are fat and lazy and that you gossip. Tons of working women gossip too, thats a personal trait, not something determined by you working or not. If youre a busybody, youre gonna gossip anyway. And women who dont work dont just sit at home, they can volunteer, take up new activities or sports or something, learn new things.
[/QUOTE]

Sarah, lets meet halfway on this one..women who dont work are nto always idle. I agree.. some are some are not. They "can" spend their time doing other stuff.

Although, if someone is going to be spending a lot of time doing something outside the house anyways..why nto do something that contributes to the finances of the house :)

As noted already women with small children are very busy with just taking care of them.