Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
Afraid of losing eh?
Sir Islam is the only solution and Muslims are always identified by Islam
Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
Sir Islam is the only solution and Muslims are always identified by Islam
Ok Sir.
Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
I have told people before too........not to engage in 'discussion' with...............
You didn't tell me! Had I known we were surrounded by crack pots I'd have kept my mouth shut, I was under the impression that I'd be conversing with someone with a mental age of above 5, I was obviously wrong.
Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
You didn't tell me! Had I known we were surrounded by crack pots I'd have kept my mouth shut, I was under the impression that I'd be conversing with someone with a mental age of above 5, I was obviously wrong.
honestly I couldn't agree more. Some people *really *need to learn what a civil discussion is and also respect somebody else's point of view instead of just calling them names
[yes am referring to calling KR as Cyber Super Muslim Jihadi @IceSoul] !
Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
honestly I couldn't agree more. Some people *really *need to learn what a civil discussion is and also respect somebody else's point of view instead of just calling them names
[yes am referring to calling KR as Cyber Super Muslim Jihadi @IceSoul ] !
You didn't tell me! Had I known we were surrounded by crack pots I'd have kept my mouth shut, I was under the impression that I'd be conversing with someone with a mental age of above 5, I was obviously wrong.
I hope you learned your lessons...:)
Re: “country” not “Religion” defines us.
Eurgh leave him be Enigmatic, nothing is going to get through a skull as thick as his.
Will you be my sensei oh wise one? 
Re: “country” not “Religion” defines us.
Offcourse…
Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
Offcourse.........:D
Lesson one: How to troll successfully. Enlighten us oh learned one.
Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
^that shalt be against forum policies to disclose such classified know-how publically.......i shall be more than willing to teach you via other non-public (legal) channels of communication....
lets get back to topic shall we?? :D
Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
I was under the impression that I'd be conversing with someone with a mental age of above 5
So was I, Cyber-Muslim-Soldier-in-England...
Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
"defines us"? for what? Passport? In India there are tons of languages, tons of customs (region specific or 'community specific') and several religions, does it mean India should be broken up according to those languages, customs, cultures etc?
Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
Captain sahib
That is exactly what I am saying, 'country' defines us (with all its different languages, customs etc) not 'religion' only.
Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
Captain sahib
That is exactly what I am saying, 'country' defines us (with all its different languages, customs etc) not 'religion' only.
"country" is for identification purposes only, not who you are, how you live, your cultural habits, your eating habits etc.
Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
Jinnah never used the word secular. He wanted a modern, democratic, Islamic state. What he meant by Islamic state was either opportunistic popularism, or an arcane ideology only he had knowledge of, if we are to presume it's something other than what his contemporary Islamists, to some degree, implied.
When I was growing up, people were hell bent on thinking Jinnah wanted a theocracy...now, they think he was a kemalist. Will the real Jinnah please stand up? Because he was certainly neither....and he had a personal relationship with the so-called Attaturk, so it's not like he didn't know what secularism was or meant.
Jinnah's silence on the subject after Pakistan was founded, save a speech here or there, seems to speak louder than anything else...the truth is, he didn't really care...so long as he was Gov. General. The Muslim personal law remained intact, there was no banning of the selwar kameez, never bind the burker, and Urdu did not adopt a latin script. Nor were the young encouraged to adopt western dress and engage in ballroom dancing...this latter banter should be familiar to those who are acquainted with the forced westernization policy which was adopted throughout the middle east.
Jinnah would have nothing to do with that crap. He personally was a cultural Muslim, had no problem with Islamic law as part of the writ of the state (as per the Muslim family laws inherited from British India), did not loath his culture nor think it was in some way responsible for "backwardness", and would not have a theocracy under his watch. It's a very nuanced view which too many are desperate to "simplify".
Where have you been picoico?
Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
Where have you been picoico?
Hanging out with my son...babies are awesome, I highly recommend them... :)
Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
Peace All
How we should be defined, what we swear allegience to and the pecking order of our duties are different things ... It is possible to define ourselves as Muslims, who all worship one Deity and follow Muhammad (SAW) and encourage good and discourage evil. At the same time we can swear allegience to Pakistan and so encourage good and discourage evil within the country - hold our leaders to account if they fail us and hold each other to account if we are failing ourselves.
The pecking order of duty is:
a) Ourselves
b) Our homes
c) Our streets
d) Our communities
e) Our regions
f) Our countries
g) The World of Muslim countries
h) The World
So when it comes to declaring brotherhood with all Muslims we must not be hypocritical by being unbrotherly to Muslims within our own nations, but by being brotherly to Muslims within our own nations does not absolve us of the resposibility to be brotherly to all Muslims.
As a complete way of life Islam is the highest ideal - the practical way of realising that is to work up to it by implementing in gradual stages starting from our own homes.
Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
Muslims are allover defined buy their deen Islam
that sounds theoretical though. Whether Islam or any other religion, isn't a person's religion defined by how they practice it? Especially when practitioners cannot even read and understand their holy treatises themselves and have to rely on translations and interpretations? how many Hindus can read Vedas which are in Sanskrit? very few. How many Muslims can read Quran in original form?
It would be NICE if a A deen can define all its followers but it just doesn't happen
Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
that sounds theoretical though. Whether Islam or any other religion, isn't a person's religion defined by how they practice it? Especially when practitioners cannot even read and understand their holy treatises themselves and have to rely on translations and interpretations? how many Hindus can read Vedas which are in Sanskrit? very few. How many Muslims can read Quran in original form?
It would be NICE if a A deen can define all its followers but it just doesn't happen
I think what is important is that at the individual level the highest ghaira that we should have is regarding our religion, more specifically Allah (SWT) and RasoolAllah (SAW) ... typically I don't mind what call me, but I wouldn't like them saying ill of who I hold as holy. However, I wouldn't react stupidly or become enraged with an emotion that over powers my ability to think. I would be less sensitive if someone made fun out of Pakistan ... but I would still be offended I guess ... It is about the relative importance one gives together with how we react regarding them that defines us.
Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
I really wish that it was our Country: Pakistan that defined us. It's only the Pakistanis who think all Muslims are their brothers.
If you think that then you were stoned out of your mind for the past 30 years. If anything Al Qaeda and other terror outfits have shown that a good portion of the population consider religion an over arching defining factor.
The Arab Afghan phenomenon. The actions in Libya and Yemen all attest to that.
Re: "country" not "Religion" defines us.
If you think that then you were stoned out of your mind for the past 30 years. If anything Al Qaeda and other terror outfits have shown that a good portion of the population consider religion an over arching defining factor.
The Arab Afghan phenomenon. The actions in Libya and Yemen all attest to that.
I don't know about the past 30 years, but you are definitely stoned right now. Maybe you should read my post again, slowly, since your brain can obviously not comprehend simple English quickly.
[QUOTE]
I really wish that it was our Country: Pakistan that defined us. It's only the Pakistanis who think all Muslims are their brothers.
[/QUOTE]
Right now, its a mix of both. And Pakistanis have paid the price for the religion bit.