Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
Aisa sawal karnay walay ki aqal ka undaaza ho jata hai.
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
ap thek kahtay ho bhai mairay.par agar app b ghar baitho ho namaaz par kai aba kai paon daba rahay ho or koi jahaz ai or ghar pai bomb phank day ami abu bhain bhai sab mar jain or apko pta chalay kai yah israel ya usa ka jahaz tha to ap kya karo gay?
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
apka dil karta hai kay hud ko mairain?jo b aisay karta hai us ke waja thosnday usko bura na kahain woh waja paida karnay walay ko bura kahain.or unko khatam na karain waja khatam karain.(waisay aman takat kai tawazan say ke hasal kya ja sakta hai)or muslims power mai kam hain jab kabhi kesi kai sath bohat bura hota hai kai control nahi kar sakta to he aisa karta hai.scince mai pechay hain hum.nalaik hain hum.mahnat ke zarorat hai jhagray ke nahi par sabar say.or aisay banday ko bura na kahain balkay samjhnay ke koshish karain plz.
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
Jinaab aisay mawaaqon per hi pata chalta hai ke banda deen ka hai ya dunya ka. Agar aisa ho to kum az kum main jaa kar dushman ke bhorhon or buchchon ko nahi maroon ga. Maana ke ye aik aziat nak manzar hai per Allah kehaan der hei undher nahin, dushman ko marnain ke liay apna dushman banna zaroori nahin.
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
One thing I can easily tell from your post is you only read the verses from someone elses article or from some website, which is meant to defame Islam. If you had read Quran in entirety you would have known that their are verses which require a muslim to be just and honest toward a non-muslim. Now this being said would appear as a contradiction to the verses you quoted. This contradiction only arises from the actions of those people i.e. OBL type, who take them and generalize them. There is no contradiction here if you view the verses in the proper context when muslims were at war with non-believers and non-muslims of that time were conspiring to kill and hurt muslims. Now put in that context tell me would you accept any of those non-believers as friends. Someone who has turned against your religion to the extent that they will torture you and kill you for proclaiming to be a muslim, can such a person be your friend. Would you be confortable to take such a person in your house as a friend? This is where we draw the line. I do not detest you for your understanding because you are not a muslim and you have certainly not read or studied Quran and Sunnah so you would definitely extract conclusions from the little knowledge you have. This is where muslims should explain the proper aspect of these things, and as I said they have done a miserable job in doing so. And those who try, their efforts are overshadowed by the warped and hyped actions of people like OBL.
So I would definitely take you as a friend provided you were not there trying to attack me for being a muslim. Yes, you are welcome to present your religous opinions based on what you believe and try to convince me. However this should not be in a way where is disrupts the harmony of a muslim community either or becomes confrontational with a muslim and vice versa for a muslim.
Thanks for ur response brother.
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One thing I can easily tell from your post is you only read the verses from someone elses article or from some website, which is meant to defame Islam.
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Allow me to take strong exception of ur above comment. What U have told easily is just a lie, and my ALLAH knows that. U can browse through my other posts in this forum. I have quoted verses from holy quran several times but not a single time to defame Islam. Nor this time I quoted these verses to defame Islam. Its just to share my point of views with U guys. After all we are not at war but its just a discussion which is going on in best possible way.
Further I agree with U and already know that holy quran was revealed to holy prophet in different circumstances. And these verses were revealed when mushriks of mecca were at war with the holy prophet. But what U are forgetting that holy quran is not time bound and its verses are still relevent as commands of ALLAH. All verses are laws for a muslim and he must not transgress that. If u have a different opinion than plz let me know.
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***Now put in that context tell me would you accept any of those non-believers as friends. Someone who has turned against your religion to the extent that they will torture you and kill you for proclaiming to be a muslim, can such a person be your friend. Would you be confortable to take such a person in your house as a friend?*
**
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Brother what seems most objectionable to me in holy quran is its genralization of communities. Today christians and muslims are at war, hindus and muslims are at war, jews and muslims are at war, but can we genralize things to the extent that reflects that the whole community is at war together? Than how can I visit my muslim friend and stay with his family for weeks like I do??? And vice versa???
We have seen riots happening in India, two communities seems to be thirsty for blood of each other, still we can see several instances of muslims saving lives and property of hindus and hindus doing same to their counterparts?? Were ppls somewhat different in quranic period?? If yes than how can holy quran be relevent for today's ppls who are entirely different from the ppls it was originally meant for??? there may be several questions popping out in this simple debate and they will come out later on, and U will be obiliged to answer them all. lets wait for ur answer for questions posed so far.
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So I would definitely take you as a friend provided you were not there trying to attack me for being a muslim. Yes, you are welcome to present your religous opinions based on what you believe and try to convince me. However this should not be in a way where is disrupts the harmony of a muslim community either or becomes confrontational with a muslim and vice versa for a muslim
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Brother permit me to say that above quote of urs is not in line of islamic belief. I can never try to convince U about my belief if I m a christian a jew or a mushrik. U are not even supposed to listen to me. And nowhere in the world U can find a non muslim country where U are not allowed to propogate teaching of Islam, while there is only a single country on world map which can be termed as Islamic nation being the only shariyah abiding nation. Thats
Saudi Arab. how much intolrant and oppressing are its policies towards non muslims in terms of religion is very much evident. Now why we shold not believe that its in accordance with the teaching of Islam???
Thanks.**
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
Do you know our Dear Prophet sala Allaahu alahiwasallam, was an unlettered Prophet. If you can believe the other verses of the Quran, you have to believe in this verse of the Quran.
Do you get my drift, great poets at that time Labid Ibn Rabiah just google for his The Golden Ode, when he recited a poem the whole of Arabs prostrated in front of him. But later after Quran came, he completely agree his poetry is zero compared to Quran.
Well they were great Poets the Arabs were at the zenith of Arabic during that time, but couldnt defeat a Unlettered man. Well Al Mughira a staunch enemy of Islam, and a poet agreed that Quranic poetry was far more eloquent.
Why do you think the Mushriks attacked Prophet though they had the best of poets with them. I want an answer for this question.
Brother, I m here to discuess the Impact of holy quran on the society and not its poetic eloquence. I have no problem in accepting that holy quran may be the best arabic poetry so far, but that doesnt solve the purpose as long as its misinterpretation is causing havoc on mankind. I hope u understand me.
thanks
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
thanks
Now I see you, what you want. I am questioning you Holy Quran is the word of Allaah, even if there is one Muslim on earth and the whole of Muslim ummah is wiped away on the face of earth even then Holy Quran is from Allaah. Since i started this argument, I have always told you please dont get entities such as OBL, mother teresa and others. The complete picture is dont get the society, your whole argument is Quran is not the Word of God.
Your claim was to put some verses up and to prove the Quran is not the word of Allaah, now I want you to prove me wrong. Neither your up to prove it wrong, nor do you take other verses of the Quran which you totally deny.
Now my argument is if Quran is from Allaah, and since is the** creator knows best for his creation. **If the Quran is man made then you can always doubt its authenticity. Allaah infact challenges the Quran, and its authenticity thats one reason I want you to prove me this is not from Allaah.
If it is from Allaah, we have to abide by the Laws in the Quran (which the Muslim society is at large is not following) as this are Divine Laws, at times few Ayahs might go against the desire of human, if you want you can disagree with it but you cant reject it. Any individual who is a slave of Allaah, will believe in any Divine Decree in the Quran.
Well Allaah is given free will to a human being, have you contemplated if there is one God as you agree, just ponder why are they so many religions. You mean to say Allaah created the human being just for play and wont be accounted for it. If there is one God, then there has to be one religion.
Thats what i fought for before a believer in Islam, since then my perceptions was changed, I was an agnostic, I couldnt comprehend that One God and many religions its not possible, there should be only ONE religion. Finding out the right religion is left to us, Allaah guides whom he wills. I found this in Islam and the Speech of Allaah the Holy Quran.
The impact of athiesm is also caused havoc to this world, much much more then your so called Media people who claim the Muslims are behind every possible destruction on the earth. Let me use the cocordist approach that Muslims are behind all possible terrorist attacks on this world, even then If we compare they are more deaths amongst the Muslims in the world compared to Non muslims.
Yes what you say is right Holy Quran is caused havoc amongst the non-muslims, considering its the truth of Allaah.
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
Just a thought if God wants everybody to be muslim why there are people born in other religions.
I mean is it some kind of mistake. Who is creating all this chaos.
A person doesn't have a choice which religion he will be born in.
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
I am sure if tried to search for it you will find it and convincing enough as well. Encourage yourself to think outside the box just as you ask muslims to think outside the box.
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
Your welcome. No problem at all.
You misunderstood mu comment. I meant that the material you presented has probably been extracted from such websites, which have been created with the intention to defame Islam. I did not say that you are trying to defame Islam. If it sounded as such then let me clarify that is not what I meant.
The guidance of the Quran is time bound and so are the verses however you have have understand what kind of guidance the verse is providing. The verses that have to do with our Aqidah are to be taken literally whereas others are circumstantial and they should be understood in the context of their revelation. Yes, a muslim should not transgress the verses however that did not refute the point I made. You are going on a different tangent here. I spoke of verses which require us to be just and honest towards a non-muslim and you kept silent about that bringing a tangential argument.
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Muslims are bothers to one another because the purpose of our life is the same. When someone fights against your cause them whoever is loyal to that cause is an enemy to such a person. I don't think that is complicated. Take NATO for instance, an attack on any one NATO country is considered an attack on all NATO countries. Same concept. NATO countries are bound by their NATO alliance whereas muslims are bound by a common faith (if you would ignore all the factions for now). Its the commonality of purpose, which brings about alliance. Allah SWT will not judge us based on our NATO, UN, OIC or SAARC membership but we will be judged based on our faith towards Allah SWT. If Allah SWT is going to view us as entities based on our faith towards him then it only makes most sense to group ourselves as such. Ummah is a union of likes. Ummah is not exclusive to muslims, it can be used for other entities as well and it has been in the Quran. Remember war is at state level not personal level. An act of war is commited by a state not a person. The only difference today is that muslims do group as an Ummah governed by one state. They have their own states and this is a source of divison among us.
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Show me what you intend to invalidate from the Quran through this example and I will answer it.
Thanks.
I have not come across any such thing. How can I convince you if I am not ready to hear your point of view. Quran tells us to preach with wisdom, and that is not possible without hearing the other point of view. Every prophet asked questions about the faith that they were opposed with to prove what they are saying. Take Prophet Ibrahim AS for instance, he questioned his father about the idols and his people about the idols in order to prove to them that they are wrong. Prophet Moses AS challenged Pharoah in the same realm he found himself superior in i.e. magic. You cannot convince another unless you speak his language. Now as for allowing others to preach their religion in an Islamic country, non-muslims are allowed to have their places of worship and they can preach whatever they preach in those places. This is the point I made earlier, do not do it in a way which causes disharmony in the muslim community. What is the point of an Islamic state if we are not bound by Islam in it. What you say is exemplary of a secular state. I'm sure you can comprehend Sir, that a secular state is not the same as an Islamic state. Why would someone create an Islamic state to live by secular laws? Similarly why would anyone create a secular state if they wanted to live by a religous code.
Saudi policies not doubt are somewhat demented, I don't disagree there. They are equally prejudiced with muslims as well. If you move around among Arabs you would know how much disdain they have for Saudis leave alone non-muslims. I think Saudi Arabia is less Shariah compliant, its just more in our perception because of the historical and Islamic significance of that place in our religion. The land of Saudi Arabia is sacred to us for granted because of our history there. I think most of the Islamic air over there persists because of the sanctity of that place for muslims and less because of the State policy.
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
I have clerly mentioned humans have free will.
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
Your claim was to put some verses up and to prove the Quran is not the word of Allaah, now I want you to prove me wrong. Neither your up to prove it wrong, nor do you take other verses of the Quran which you totally deny.
Now my argument is if Quran is from Allaah, and since is the** creator knows best for his creation. **If the Quran is man made then you can always doubt its authenticity. Allaah infact challenges the Quran, and its authenticity thats one reason I want you to prove me this is not from Allaah.
If it is from Allaah, we have to abide by the Laws in the Quran (which the Muslim society is at large is not following) as this are Divine Laws, at times few Ayahs might go against the desire of human, if you want you can disagree with it but you cant reject it. Any individual who is a slave of Allaah, will believe in any Divine Decree in the Quran.
Well Allaah is given free will to a human being, have you contemplated if there is one God as you agree, just ponder why are they so many religions. You mean to say Allaah created the human being just for play and wont be accounted for it. If there is one God, then there has to be one religion.
Thats what i fought for before a believer in Islam, since then my perceptions was changed, I was an agnostic, I couldnt comprehend that One God and many religions its not possible, there should be only ONE religion. Finding out the right religion is left to us, Allaah guides whom he wills. I found this in Islam and the Speech of Allaah the Holy Quran.
The impact of athiesm is also caused havoc to this world, much much more then your so called Media people who claim the Muslims are behind every possible destruction on the earth. Let me use the cocordist approach that Muslims are behind all possible terrorist attacks on this world, even then If we compare they are more deaths amongst the Muslims in the world compared to Non muslims.
Yes what you say is right Holy Quran is caused havoc amongst the non-muslims, considering its the truth of Allaah.
Brother plz dont play with words during such a sensitive debate. I never said that holy quran caused havoc for humankind, what I said was its misinterpretation is causing havov on mankind. I expect U to regret for ur mistake coz its just another misinterpretation for convienience from ur end.
I m not pointing a fingure on ur faith, I m just presenting to U mine. As for as one ALLAH one religion is concerned than I believe that litrally all religions on face of earth are man made, I repeat all religions. ALLAH has made only one religion thats humanity. The only and true religion of ALLAH.
ONCE AGAIN I BEG TO TELL U THAT I HAVE ALL THE REGARDS FOR UR BELIEF EXCEPT THAT I DONT SUBSCRIBE TO IT AND I HAVE MY OWN SET OF BELIEF.
Thanks
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
I m not pointing a fingure on ur faith, I m just presenting to U mine. As for as one ALLAH one religion is concerned than I believe that litrally all religions on face of earth are man made, I repeat all religions. ALLAH has made only one religion thats humanity. The only and true religion of ALLAH.
ONCE AGAIN I BEG TO TELL U THAT I HAVE ALL THE REGARDS FOR UR BELIEF EXCEPT THAT I DONT SUBSCRIBE TO IT AND I HAVE MY OWN SET OF BELIEF.
Thanks
Here its not with regards to my belief or your belief, if all religions are man made, then I do have respect for your belief.** But the religion of Human is Islam, because Islam, Allaah talks about the Fitrah, the carnal nature of every human being in the Quran**. Thats the religion of Islam.
Well, you have again misinterpreted what I have mentioned, coz of the mass deception of the media, most of the Muslims have been targetted and nothing is been proven. Well if I have misinterpreted then I am extremely SORRY for my misunderstanding of your words.
Well, since you have posted verses from the Quran, again stating and supporting your point of Religions are man made, well I cannot acknowledge that fact. If religion of Allaah is human kind, then Allaah has to set Laws on earth, because Allaah does not create anything without any purpose.
At the end of everone's life s/he is accountable for it. Since every human and jinns are accountable, Allaah has to set some laws for us to reach there final abode i.e. Paradise or Hell.
Well, my argument is One God and One true religion.
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
Hammered the Nail on the head. Couldn't have said it better.
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
Are you trying to say that I had a free will to be born in hindu or christian family? WTF I had no say in what so ever to be born in muslim family or whatever. Maybe you had that choice before you were born (and I will be seriously surprised at your claim) but I am not superhuman.
Free will to me is if I can choose where and when I will be born, if thats not the case then whoever is the creator/maker (if there is any) becomes responsible for all my actions. Also then that creator/maker is flawed if he wanted me to be muslim but born me in nonmuslim family.
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
Free will to me is if I can choose where and when I will be born, if thats not the case then whoever is the creator/maker (if there is any) becomes responsible for all my actions. Also then that creator/maker is flawed if he wanted me to be muslim but born me in nonmuslim family.
The answer is simple every one born is a Muslim. But later individuals parents deviate them to a different way of life like Judaism or Christianity.
If you dont believe in Free will, you are a live eg. of it your born in a Muslim family, but you believe in Atheism. Atheism is your ideology, God gave you an answer in Quran but you chose otherwise.
Well if I claim Quran is the word of God i even have the evidence to prove it.
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
For JustaHuman, probably this link should help you. Authored by Dr. Bilal Philips a revert to Islam in 1972.
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
Thats exactly what I did.. I started thinking outside the box and have fallen out of all religious circles. :)
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
^Now think about why have you fallen outside all religious circles.
Re: Conversion back to Hinduism
Because it makes more sense. Everything I do and believe in ,is logical. Everything I do my mind stays satisfied. I am happy to be where I am where I can defend what I believe in with evidence that make sense and not just on pure belief. What I did realize is that religion certainly divides people. Is that what really God wants? If so its for an evil cause. How could God desire anything for an evil cause if He really is as pure as He is supposed to be? So maybe God doesnt really want you to believe in all this. Better than that maybe God doesnt even exist.
Decartes once said "What you can doubt, you can reject" .. this really helps one to explore ones potential to the extreams of what one can think and do. And my brain disagrees with the very thought of how could one spend all their life beliving in something that one cant even explain. :)
Please dont tell me this is the "TEST" God wants us to go though..and this is to test your Iman and all that.. I have already heard that from various Mullas.