Conversion back to Hinduism

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

Well what was it that made you change in such a way. What was your religion and what was it about it that caused you to sway the other side?

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You know I dont disagree that religion divides people, surprised to hear this maybe aren't you. However it divides for the good of people, the demarcation is for a certain purpose that is to our benefit and no others. Nature is formed along division, good from evil, day from night, white from black, child from adult etc. Maybe what you missed in Islam is that it tries to eliminate the division by asking everyone to agree to the one truth there is. If people would stop believing in false gods there would be no division. All those who carried the message from Allah SWT said the same thing, to believe in one true God. So Allah SWT always send messages to us not to divide ourselves concerning him however it is us mankind who don't understand. If you do not believe in God then how can you blame him for all this division, doesn't that leave only us to blame then.

If you have an alternative to God then what is it, lets hear about it.

Why don't you believe it is a TEST?

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Well I am from a muslim family. Just looking around and trying to understand God doesnt make sense. Why should one believe in something that doesnt even make sense? Whats the probability of God's exitence? Since I dont know I would say 50/50. You ask a religious person he will say 100% and if you ask him to prove it he will keep going in circle always asuming God exists. My beiigest problem is that you cant rationalize god. If God really exist and he gave you a brain, I think its really ungrateful of us not to use it by question the very being who supposedly created us. Whats wrong with that?
Tolerance
All religions preach tolernace .. yet I find the atheists to be more tolearnt to put up with all religious holidays and events. You can tell an atheist that God exists and who could care less.. you tell a religious person God doesnt exists and that will turn on an endless debate. Who is more tolerant?
We cant stand the fact the the Pope quoted something from the 14th century that was against the muslims. We therfore demand an apology from the highest ranking Christain preist. How many people have really apoligized for what Osama did in the name of Islam? Did you ever tell a christain that you are really sorry for what one man did in the name of your religion? Yet we are so sensitive that the smallest finger pointed towards us makes us go insane. We cant stand that fact if someone tries to be artistic about the prophet. Are muslims really tolerant? All these incident only display a very proud ego conscious society.
Humanly
Please tell me seriously whom do you consider more humanly, the religious folks who behead innocent civilians in the name of religion or the ones who send teams out to help people in disasters? The west might be against most religions but isnt what they do for the human cause (UN stuff like that) should be a religious obligation. Ironically it is. But sadly and truely the least religious of all follow it.
Heaven
If the purpose of ones life is to do good deeds for a better life in heaven than whats the purpose of the after life? A life without any purpose? Does that make any sense? If God made this world and what not ... do you think he would let us live in heaven for no purpose till eternity?
Conclusion
I noticed in my analysis that most of what religion what you to be, is already in you if you are a good human being. Beleiving in a Divine Being that created you doenst make you any better or worse. Its your beliefs and you have the right to worship your car if your choose and so do I. But what most religious people (mostly muslims) dont realize is when they mock other religions for their gods (hindus worshiping idols for example) they are only making fun of themselves. Atleast the Hindus believe in something that makes more sense compared to the senseless God of their own. I am not advocating any religion here I am only advocating what makes more sense to me. :)

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Similarly if people stopped believing in God there would be no divisions.

I dont have one. I believe in humanity.. Do good good happens.. do bad and expect worse. The scientific aspect of the universe makes more sense to me than the religious aspect. Granted that a lot of universe mystries were encoded in the Holy books, but still that could also be a result of a good philosophical analysis. A lot of what men once knew is unknown and new and hard evidences are being found that maybe the early men wernt really as technology illiterate as we think they were.

"TEST" If gods really fair thats assuming he does exist, How can the test of Humans in the Battle between God and Devil be justified? Some say humans will be rewarded with Heaven if they pass the test. Now with all fairness tell me, First humans have to believe in God that they cant explain ... and they believe in Him cuz this will lead them to place (heaven) thats beyond once imagination (simply unexplainable). So the abstarct of a religious life is .." Believe in the unexplainable for the unexplainable reward" ... Does this really make sense? :)

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The guidance of the Quran is time bound and so are the verses however you have have understand what kind of guidance the verse is providing. The verses that have to do with our Aqidah are to be taken literally whereas others are circumstantial and they should be understood in the context of their revelation. Yes, a muslim should not transgress the verses however that did not refute the point I made. You are going on a different tangent here. I spoke of verses which require us to be just and honest towards a non-muslim and you kept silent about that bringing a tangential argument.

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Brother U gave us a law of understanding of holy quran, plz eleborate further whether this law is made by ALLAH, or the holy prophet, or by some human being that how verses of holy quran should be understood??? Plz give me reference too. And what if some muslims is adament on taking these verse on face value and is reluctent to make friends among non muslims as we see a lot around us, doing this and asking others to do this too. And the verse which asks muslims to be just and honest to non muslims proves nothing except that holy quran is a noble book, the point we are discuessing here is whether holy quran is book from ALLAH or not.

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Muslims are bothers to one another because the purpose of our life is the same. When someone fights against your cause them whoever is loyal to that cause is an enemy to such a person. I don't think that is complicated. Take NATO for instance, an attack on any one NATO country is considered an attack on all NATO countries. Same concept. NATO countries are bound by their NATO alliance whereas muslims are bound by a common faith (if you would ignore all the factions for now). Its the commonality of purpose, which brings about alliance. Allah SWT will not judge us based on our NATO, UN, OIC or SAARC membership but we will be judged based on our faith towards Allah SWT. If Allah SWT is going to view us as entities based on our faith towards him then it only makes most sense to group ourselves as such. Ummah is a union of likes. Ummah is not exclusive to muslims, it can be used for other entities as well and it has been in the Quran. Remember war is at state level not personal level. An act of war is commited by a state not a person. The only difference today is that muslims do group as an Ummah governed by one state. They have their own states and this is a source of divison among us.

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Brother I m not sure what U want to convey from ur above quote, but if u want to justify generalization of communities during war than I disagree with U, yes one NATO nation attacked may be considered attack on each NATO nation, and suppose for example India has attacked a NATO nation and all NATO nations declare war against India, than will their rulers ask their army to kill all Indians? or just those who creat resistance in their agression??? Riots do haappen in India as I told U earlier, but is it okay to order security forces to kill hindus or kill muslims?? or killing of rioters should be ordered??? I wonder if u agree with me?

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I have not come across any such thing. How can I convince you if I am not ready to hear your point of view. Quran tells us to preach with wisdom, and that is not possible without hearing the other point of view. Every prophet asked questions about the faith that they were opposed with to prove what they are saying. Take Prophet Ibrahim AS for instance, he questioned his father about the idols and his people about the idols in order to prove to them that they are wrong. Prophet Moses AS challenged Pharoah in the same realm he found himself superior in i.e. magic. You cannot convince another unless you speak his language. Now as for allowing others to preach their religion in an Islamic country, non-muslims are allowed to have their places of worship and they can preach whatever they preach in those places. This is the point I made earlier, do not do it in a way which causes disharmony in the muslim community. What is the point of an Islamic state if we are not bound by Islam in it. What you say is exemplary of a secular state. I'm sure you can comprehend Sir, that a secular state is not the same as an Islamic state. Why would someone create an Islamic state to live by secular laws? Similarly why would anyone create a secular state if they wanted to live by a religous code.

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Brother for ur kind information, there is no Islamic state in the world except Saudi Arabia, if there is some than plz let me know. Its trademark of muslims to act like dictators. ie when they are in minority they reserve their right to preach their religion among non muslims, telling that its a secular state, while where they are in majority than they would flex their muscles and execute anyone non muslim when he will try to preach his religion among muslims. BTW do u think that a state with muslim majority is enough to be a Islamic state? Plz try to understand where lies the faultline. What is the wisdome behind ur question which is in bold above?? there is no Islamic state at all.

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Saudi policies not doubt are somewhat demented, I don't disagree there. They are equally prejudiced with muslims as well. If you move around among Arabs you would know how much disdain they have for Saudis leave alone non-muslims. I think Saudi Arabia is less Shariah compliant, its just more in our perception because of the historical and Islamic significance of that place in our religion. The land of Saudi Arabia is sacred to us for granted because of our history there. I think most of the Islamic air over there persists because of the sanctity of that place for muslims and less because of the State policy

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Brother its ur personal views, not views of those who are considered champions among propogators of Islam. Most of non muslims are exposed to their views and not views of moderate muslims like U. for instance I m presenting to U the views of Dr. Zakir Naik. the world famous daai of Islam on this topic, u can urself see the vast difference between urs and his view.

*****Q. Why is building of temples and churches and the propagation of any religion other than Islam not allowed in Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia?*

A. 1. Example of selecting a Maths teacher:

Suppose you are a principal of a school and you have to select a Mathematics teacher. It is obvious that you will interview the candidates. If one teacher says that 2 + 2 = 3, the other says 2 + 2 = 4 and the third says 2 + 2 = 5 whom will you select? Since you know mathematics is logical, you will never select or allow a person to teach mathematics who doesn’t even know the basics of arithmetic that 2 + 2 = 4.

2. Where religion is concerned Muslims are experts:

Similarly in the field of religion, Muslims are the best and Qur’an clearly mentions in Surah Ale Imran, Chapter 3, verse 19 (3:19):

“The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His will)”. [Al-Qur’an 3:19]

It is further mentioned In Surah Ale Imran Chapter 3, verse 85 (3:85)

“If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).” [Al-Qur’an 3:85]

3. No other religious scripture claims that its religion alone is true.

There is no other religious scripture on the face of the earth besides the Qur’an which says that only its religion is true, correct and acceptable to Almighty God, and that all the other religions are false and hence not acceptable to Almighty God.

If you are a school principal who knows Maths, you will never allow a person to teach Maths in your school who does not know Maths. Similarly Muslims, who are experts in the field of religion and know that Islam is the only true religion, will not allow anyone in the country of Saudi Arabia to preach any other religion besides Islam. Muslims also know that what the true concept of Almighty God i.e. Allah (SWT) is, and thus we will not permit anyone to build, in the country of Saudi Arabia, a place of worship where they worship anyone besides Allah (swt).

And Allah Knows Best.****

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So in light of above answer, should we hindus fear the rise of Islam in our country?? considering when there will be lots of muslims in India and they will ask for Islamic laws, where our temples and places of worships will be demolished and we will be forcibly stopped from performing our prayers, coz its not for ALLAH to judge our prayers but its on muslims to judge. Ur comments plz.

thanks

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Even truckloads of applauds cant do justice to ur post, all I will say very very well written. hats off to ur views. thanks for sharing.

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Brother U have claimed that if ppls will start believing in false GOD than there will be no division, but ur claim has already been proven wrong......muslims pray one true ALLAH still there is so much division among them, than how come praying one true GOD will stop division among all religions??? any suitable answer???

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Thanks I am glad I got my point across one person. Thank you.

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It doesn't take more that one little question to refute your argument. Who created the universe. Do any of the theories put forward make sense, they are all presumptuous and all lead to the existence of a creator or supreme being. Just the magnanimity of the number of living species that have existed and exist today cannot be explained by any science in the world today. Does it make sense to that someone created all this universe? I would love to see you explain how all this happened without any kind of intervention. And there is no bluff or senselessness involved here, this universe exists around you, any ideas what happened or are we just someones dream.

Are we supposed to be tolerant of falsehoods. Sir, If I start spreading lies about you and start slandering your image and things about, are you going to be tolerant of me. Are the people allied with you going to be tolerant of me? What I will agree with is that muslims have overreacted in many instances, which were uncalled for. However making the comparison between Pope and OBL is not in harmony. Pope is a climactic figure of the Chrsitian faith and his remarks simply reinforce that Christianity is not tolerant of the muslim faith and personalities. OBLs agenda had nothing to do with Christianity and is more inclined towards politics that is played by western powers. OBL is not a muslim figure of any authority, maybe he his viewed as a roadside hero however there is no comparsion in religious stature of the two in their respective communities. This is a very naive example you gave.

Tell me how many of the muslim majority approve their acts of violence. I do not consider their acts of beheading to be right. Yes those people who send disaster relief missions are definitely doing good, however all this discussion does not concern human-human relationship, its about human-God relationship. Muslim nations also send their relief sorties to such places. If there any instances where muslims refused participation in such a circumstance then shame on them. And let me burst the bubble for you, all that aid that comes pouring in is not without a price. The financial aid that USA and Europe provide come with a compensation in some sort of economic exchange or loan. Half the aid Pakistan received for the earthquake victims was loans, so this humanity comes with a milking price to it. I would have though you were well-informed enough to understand how global and political economics works today. No country today helps the other without securing its own interest in it first, even muslim countries. Insignificant relief efforts for the sake of humanity really don't count.

Again tell where muslim nations refuse to get involved in human affairs. Pakistan is one of the largest contributors to peace keeping missions.

Nice question, made me think. Tell if there is no afterlife with no purpose then it does not matter what kind of deeds you do in this world does it. So if I thrived off of black money and lived and died like a king it makes no difference to me compared to the one who lived an honest and meager life. What is the purpose of living and dying then?

Mocking is different from trying to expose something that is false. What is it about Hindus worhispping that makes more sense? Nothing wrong in being a good human being, however every good human being does it with a purpose in mind, to please someone superior being he believes to be God. You are doing good because someone taught you good and told you doing it is good, can't recall it was anything other than religion of the message from Allah, which taught us this.

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I agree with you somewhat. Muslims are not supposed to kill anyone even an enemy fighter unless they are resisting or fighting you. If they cease hostility then a muslim is not allowed to kill them. Is this any different from what you said. I do not understand the point you are trying to make here (I've emboldened it)?

In my opinion, a state does not become Islamic by choosing to add "Islamic" in its name. Pakistan has has "Islamic" in its name however many of us Paki's know the real story inside. A state with muslim majority has the right to have their own state or autonomous province within the state or yet an autonomous legal entity smaller in scale based on the proportion of the muslim population. Muslims living in a minority should not try to dsirupt the harmony of their residential country. They should seek representation though. A muslim should strive to live in a place where he can better practice his religion i.e. be it an Islamic state or non-Islamic should conditions be favorable there. Todays Islamic states are worse than many non-Islamic states. Sorry to say this though.

I think such muslim claims are based on some research ofcourse. Instead of taking offense to what he is saying why don't you re-examine your scriptures with an unbiased view for what he is saying. For instance, I live in the USA and I am surrounded by Christians. I read the Bible as well to understand what it is that they think is right or what is in the Bible and compare it with Quran. Quran talks about their belief and I scrutinize and research it to see if the Quranic claim is true or not. As far as I have researched I have found it to be true. Christians say Bible is the word of God, then the Bible should be able to withstand the scrutiny based on the things that form the foundations of the claim of it being the word of God and about Jesus Christ (PBUH).

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USR great reply, I am just waiting for the replies of Hahaha and JustaHumane.
I only want to ask these guys one question, I would agree with there points but none of them know the Quran fully and they havent researched enough.
But still consider themselves very rational.

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Using your theory it will also be concluded that someone must have created God as well. Also whats really sensless about Gods existence is the fact that He cant be explained. If you cant explain Him why do so much for him.
Simple philosophy as Decartes puts it "What can be doubted, can also be rejected"

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Are we supposed to be tolerant of falsehoods. Sir, If I start spreading lies about you and start slandering your image and things about, are you going to be tolerant of me. Are the people allied with you going to be tolerant of me? What I will agree with is that muslims have overreacted in many instances, which were uncalled for. However making the comparison between Pope and OBL is not in harmony. Pope is a climactic figure of the Chrsitian faith and his remarks simply reinforce that Christianity is not tolerant of the muslim faith and personalities. OBLs agenda had nothing to do with Christianity and is more inclined towards politics that is played by western powers. OBL is not a muslim figure of any authority, maybe he his viewed as a roadside hero however there is no comparsion in religious stature of the two in their respective communities. This is a very naive example you gave.
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It would have been different if OBL had done it and that was the end of it. But justifying all that he has done as a religious obligation makes Islam look like the devil. There are many other muslims who commit crimes everyday but their religion is not the focus unless they try and justify their deeds with their religious obligations.

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Tell me how many of the muslim majority approve their acts of violence. I do not consider their acts of beheading to be right. Yes those people who send disaster relief missions are definitely doing good, however all this discussion does not concern human-human relationship, its about human-God relationship. Muslim nations also send their relief sorties to such places. If there any instances where muslims refused participation in such a circumstance then shame on them. And let me burst the bubble for you, all that aid that comes pouring in is not without a price. The financial aid that USA and Europe provide come with a compensation in some sort of economic exchange or loan. Half the aid Pakistan received for the earthquake victims was loans, so this humanity comes with a milking price to it. I would have though you were well-informed enough to understand how global and political economics works today. No country today helps the other without securing its own interest in it first, even muslim countries. Insignificant relief efforts for the sake of humanity really don't count.
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Muslim countries are themselves to be blamed for this matter. Its their fault for not being productive. If they happen to be the one that always end up in some sort of trouble its not the rest of the worlds fault.. its their own fault. Yes situations like earthquakes etc are exceptional but like everything else there is a price for everything. And to allign with the western powers is the rpice one has to pay for it. Which in the long run turns out to be productive for themselves. Example Japan. Also note that humans are infact all selfish in nature. So benifiting from helping somebody is only being human. So beheading some one would be a barbaric act in my view.
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Again tell where muslim nations refuse to get involved in human affairs. Pakistan is one of the largest contributors to peace keeping missions.
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I guess you and I dont share the same idea of peace.

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Nice question, made me think. Tell if there is no afterlife with no purpose then it does not matter what kind of deeds you do in this world does it. So if I thrived off of black money and lived and died like a king it makes no difference to me compared to the one who lived an honest and meager life. What is the purpose of living and dying then?
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You are the one with the Divine Beings book I suppose u should have all the answers to the questions. Just like you cant answer mine I dont have an answer to yours cuz I am not sure about it. Claims based on baseless and nonsense evidence is only a religious Qulaity and sadly I dont have it. So i wont go and try and answer that question. I dont know the answer to your question but atleast I dont belive in something that I cant explain.

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Mocking is different from trying to expose something that is false. What is it about Hindus worhispping that makes more sense? Nothing wrong in being a good human being, however every good human being does it with a purpose in mind, to please someone superior being he believes to be God. You are doing good because someone taught you good and told you doing it is good, can't recall it was anything other than religion of the message from Allah, which taught us this.
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We as humans are selfish in nature. Deep inside we really are. When you do something good, it only pleases yourself the most. God and other factors are all secondary. You are good for yourself not for anybody else...not for God.

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Thanks for taking the time and making assumtions about me. I wont return the favor.

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Sir, what is senseless is that God in all his messages has told us that humans cannot concieve him and yet we keep trying to, to our own detriment. Why is it hard for you to admit that humans have limitations. Those limitations have been explained to us by Allah SWT and we cannot swallow the fact and choose to rebel against it. So based on Des Cartes, if you doubt the existence of God and reject his existence then you cannot explain who created the universe, what an oxymoron? You couldn't answer my questions because deep down Sir, there is something in you that is telling you its true, a creator really exists however you are trying your best to suppress that thought. It makes you feel wanted by someone who is wiling to follow you. Where as we are following not because we feel the need to be wanted or some else patronizing our point of view. You would argue endlessly because of this emotional dilemma.

Agreed, and blame the muslim for acting as such not the religion because you only jump up and down hearing that such a muslim mentioned the word Islam but never bother to research how much truth there is in it. Next time you claim Islam does something because some cynical muslim bombed a place provide evidence to prove what he said it right and approved by Islam.

So your argument for humanity just fell through the crevices. So benefit from helping is a condition for being humane, what happened to selflessness.

If you would express your idea of peace maybe we can find common or uncommon ground.

The problem is you don't accept the answers and prefer to stay without an answer. So if you don't have an answer then you should not disclaim it. Innocent until proven guilty concept. Unless you can refute the existence of God with certainty and proof you should not refute it because there is more evidence to prove Allah SWTs existence than there is to disprove it. All the evidence to disprove is only theories and thoughts nothing material. Whereas all the evidences to prove Allah SWTs existence are of material nature.

Yes I am good for myself because I seek closeness to Allah SWT. I want to be what Allah SWT views as good, it has to be for me, why wouldn't it be for me. Even good done for others is to get Allah SWT good pleasure. My benefiting someone else only benefits me if I get reward for it from Allah SWT.

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Brother I m trying to present U my point of view that why I think that holy quran is not words of ALLAH, so I again present U my question from my last post which is as under, its time for u to answer,

Brother U gave us a law of understanding of holy quran, plz eleborate further whether this law is made by ALLAH, or the holy prophet, or by some human being that how verses of holy quran should be understood??? Plz give me reference too. And what if some muslims is adament on taking these verse on face value and is reluctent to make friends among non muslims as we see a lot around us, doing this and asking others to do this too. And the verse which asks muslims to be just and honest to non muslims proves nothing except that holy quran is a noble book.

Well brother, I m asking U the wisdome behind some ayahs where ALLAH has asked not to make friends among Mushrikeen, Kuffar, Christians, and Jews. This is generalization of communities which we dont expect from even worst of governments today, than how come ALLAH can ask muslims to treat whole community as one. It cant be possible that all Christians or jews were at war with the holy prophet. And coz verses of holy quran is still relevent, than isnt it trangression of ALLAH’s orders if any muslim make friends among those who have been declared not worthy of muslim’s friendship by none other than ALLAH himself?? I expect U to answer my questions and expect me to answer urs without ingoring it. Than only debate can reach to some conclusion.

I appreciate ur ability to speak hard truth brother, but my question remains unanswered, as we see today, that muslims enjoy their right to propogate their religion in other secular countries where they are in minority, but same muslim where they are in majority, and that too in a non islamic country, dont fail to execute anyone who tries to propogate his religion among muslims, why this double standard by followrs of Islam? Isnt it unjust?

Brother U are just ignoring my original question, its very simple. U have justified the views of Dr. Zakir Naik that since musims believe that there is only one true religion and thats Islam, so its okay not to let any other religious practice flourish where muslims are in majority. I can agree with these FACIST views. U are in power, U feel that U are right, U can forcibly stop others to practice his or her religion, how Islamic. ALLAH must be very happy to grant U entry in paradise for this noble act of urs. But just have a look at my original question and care to answer.

And further does the response of Dr. Zakir Naik doesnt prove that Islam is most intolrent religion towards other religions?? Even moderate muslims can be intolrent towards other religion when they are shown the RIGHT PATH by the great daais of Islam???

Hope that this time I get the answers of all my questions I posed before U and they wont be ignored.

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Brother I agree with U than I dont know the holy quran fully, but I think that U too dont know holy quran fully, so its baseless to point a finger towards anyone when ur own four fingers are pointing towards urself.

If u feel that my claim is wrong than come ahead and answer my few questions about holy quran, if u can, than I will ask for ur apology publicly on this thread and if u cant, than plz refrain from making personal remarks on forum like these in future.

thanks

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Its is not about being personal, and I am not offended to repeat again. If you bring Quranic Ayah and say if this are the verses present in the Quran, and because of this I dont wont to become a Muslim is something shabby.

Well you have avoided my challenge, and you further claim and argue. I repeat again my knowing the Quran or you knowing it fully is not the issue, when you claim certain verses of the Quran in disagreement with you thats one I challenged you because you have doubted the Quran and not me.

I repeat again in my previous post I have been claiming Quran is the word of Allaah, did you ever bother to ask me is it just a claim, because if thats the case even other religions claim it is the book of God, but when asked for evidence they are perplexed.
Here I am challenging you I claim Quran is the speech of Allaah because I provide you with evidence.

Am i pointing fingers Sir, then you are the one who started pointing fingers on Quran and Allaah. First you claim you are human and later precipitate to say you are a Hindu. Therein lies the truth and I was waiting for that.

Later I repeat again, in the future before posting any Quranic verses accept the challenge of Allaah. Later we will go ahead, I claim because I have got evidence. Because, I will give an example about your rationality thats is claim your verdict on a Muslim following OBL.

*Thanks in the future if any claim you make about the Quran, first challenge the Quran and then claim it is wrong. Not the other way round. *

I will quote a small eg, suppose you are researching for your thesis, if you have to contradict the other research papers first you have to establish you basic concepts right. Finish your complete research work, then in detail run through the research work of others. After this complete process you conclude your research work is the best and contrary to other because of the following points. These following points are proofs you provide from you research work. Later, you claim your research is the best in contrary to all the other historical research work on your subject or the contemprary ones.

~*~ True Meaning of a BOY ~*~
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[quote]

Posted by yo_wasim
Its is not about being personal, and I am not offended to repeat again. If you bring Quranic Ayah and say if this are the verses present in the Quran, and because of this I dont wont to become a Muslim is something shabby.

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Brother I respect ur views, but we have right to have different views on a certain subject, thats the point here. It may be shabby for U, but not for me and many many ppls who agrees to my views. U said that I dont know holy quran fully, I reciprocated it to U and doubted whether U know it fully, but even U havent answered in affirmative.

[quote]

Posted by yo_wasim
Well you have avoided my challenge, and you further claim and argue. I repeat again my knowing the Quran or you knowing it fully is not the issue, when you claim certain verses of the Quran in disagreement with you thats one I challenged you because you have doubted the Quran and not me.

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Brother perhaps u challanged me to make a verse similar like holy quran, and I said tht I cant. And brother I give myself right to doubt anything in the world, holy quran included, coz its ALLAH who have given me capability to reason. I dont like to challange anyone, but I will definetely ask u to come ahead and reply to my doubts.

[quote]

Posted by yo_wasim
I repeat again in my previous post I have been claiming Quran is the word of Allaah, did you ever bother to ask me is it just a claim, because if thats the case even other religions claim it is the book of God, but when asked for evidence they are perplexed.
Here I am challenging you I claim Quran is the speech of Allaah because I provide you with evidence.

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Brother U are al ways welcome to provide any evidence in support of ur claim, its an open debate from day one. As far as other religions claiming about other books being from GOD, I have already said that I dont believe that any book on earth is from ALLAH OR GOD. next time U plz give me ur evidence, I have no ego problem in accepting if it makes sense to me. But kindly dont force any evidence on me that its true and I will have to accept it otherwise I m this or that.

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Posted by yo_wasim
Am i pointing fingers Sir, then you are the one who started pointing fingers on Quran and Allaah. First you claim you are human and later precipitate to say you are a Hindu. Therein lies the truth and I was waiting for that.

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Yes brother U pointed finger on me when U quoted this, any doubt?

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Posted by yo_wasim
I would agree with there points but none of them know the Quran fully and they havent researched enough.
But still consider themselves very rational.

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How can u blame anyone of not knowing holy quran fully when U urself dont know it fully? that was my point. Again I will request U that dont make misinterpretations of convienience in this sensitive debate, try to be objective. where I pointed my finer towards ALLAH? How can u say this to me? its not very gentle of U. And Yes my religion is humanity and I m a hindu by birth, whats ur problem? and if u feel that hindu is a religion, than I will say that u are living in darkness of ignorance plz come out of it or give me evidence tht hindu is a religion. I m surprised to see how a gentle guy like U can take U turn in terms of behaviour and speak like this.

[quote]

Posted by yo_wasim
Later I repeat again, in the future before posting any Quranic verses accept the challenge of Allaah. Later we will go ahead, I claim because I have got evidence. Because, I will give an example about your rationality thats is claim your verdict on a Muslim following OBL.

*Thanks in the future if any claim you make about the Quran, first challenge the Quran and then claim it is wrong. Not the other way round. *

I will quote a small eg, suppose you are researching for your thesis, if you have to contradict the other research papers first you have to establish you basic concepts right. Finish your complete research work, then in detail run through the research work of others. After this complete process you conclude your research work is the best and contrary to other because of the following points. These following points are proofs you provide from you research work. Later, you claim your research is the best in contrary to all the other historical research work on your subject or the contemprary ones.

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Brother thanks for giving me ur small eg and thanks for telling me rules of debate, but I think that ur rules are not fit for me to follow, so I will opt for going ahead as I was going. I again request U that I dont know Arabic, how can I make a ayah like holy quran? plz dont accept me to do that. Plz let me know the wisdom behind ayahs I have posted and I will be posting when I get suitable answer of my previous quarries, I hope I made u understand this time. I have no intention to challange holy quran, I myself regard it as best book available today, but I dont believe that its words of ALLAH, and u have to make me overcome my doubts if u wish, but by being objective towards my doubts and giving answer to my questions.

Thanks