Conversion back to Hinduism

[justahumane]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@USResident

Nice argument. There is a difference between forbidden and unforgivable. Unforgivable sins put you out of the fold of Islam i.e. join partners with Allah SWT in worship, deny the messengers, deny the Quran as being the last message and denying the day of judgement. Or let me say, denying in matters of Aqidah are unforgivable and can put you out of the fold of Islam. Disobediance to the laws of Allah make you a sinner and do not put you out of the fold of Islam. You become a muslim by following a certain Aqidah first. If you follow Islamic laws without having belief in the Islamic creed you are not a muslim then. Aqidah is something that relates to Allah SWT directly whereas the laws relate to mankind.

U are right brother, I dont know how u feel, but if I have aqidah in some laws I will definetely try to follow it and not mock it, if I dont than I certainly will mock it and no question of following.

[system]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@justahumane

Let me make one thing clear to U that I m not a muslim, I m a kafir.

I believe in one GOD/ALLAH, but I dont believe in ANY messenger of ALLAH or any divine book.

I have read ur views with lot of interest. I feel that technically U are right. But at the same time I feel that practically I m right. ALLAH is very clear in holy quran, this life is not permanent, but life hereafter is. This life is a test for human beings, I m giving U certain laws to abide with, and if u pass this test than U will be granted paradise. And those who feel that this test can be cleared while enjoying the most forbidden means like copying, is just like decieving the examiner. :) , if anyone think its okay to do this, than he is most welcome, but I m definetely not of his views.

I have been arguing over this subject of enjoying intersest with my muslims friends for long, not so surprisingly their views are same as urs.

Anyways, ALLAH knows best.

Thanks

If you are not a Muslim, that means that you reject the Islamic Aqeedah. So things like interest should be of a lesser concern to you. The biggest issue for you should be Aqeedah.
Since, you are a kafir then you shouldn't be labelling others as kafir or munafiq, etc. Even muslims or rather the scholars don't do this until that persons kufr becomes apparent. The other reason is because you don't understand the Islamic Aqeedah to begin with.
And it is very clearly stated in the Quran that Allah can forgive all sins except for when one dies upon shirk. Obviously there's more to it than just that. This doesn't mean that I have a license to commit non-shirk sins. But that's a different topic.
The other thing is, I do agree with you that Islam hasn't been practically applied for a very long time but that doesn't repel me from Islam because all of this had been prophecised and it increases my faith.

[Sadiyah]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@Babuji

Did you not see that I asked a question "Aren’t muslims not allowed to earn interest " which led me to the conclusion that people doing it are not Muslims ?

I am not sure how much more I could clarify this so YOU understand.

Sorry behenji Discussing with you is like hitting my head against a brick wall

My mistake

And who has given you the right to conclude who gets to be a Muslim and who doesn’t? Kindly keep all such inane theories and conclusions to yourself unless you’re able to back them up with appropriate references.

I don’t see others jumping to any such conclusions about your faith.

Drawing back to the post to which you replied, I thought I’d share again to refresh your memory:

@nstar777

most of the muslim population lives on charity from non-muslims.

Which planet r u from? Most of the freaking world exploits and underpays precious muslim resources. Your financial system would collapse if the Arab money is withdrawn from the western banks.

@Babuji

Aren’t muslims not allowed to earn interest ? If the Arabs invest their money in western banks and earn interest, then they are not muslims

Nowhere does nstar777’s post indicate that one becomes a non-Muslim by taking interest, rather he/she is simply stating that a large number of Arabs might be invovled. Again it is a sin, but I don’t see how that alone throws them out of the fold of Islam.

I don’t wish to indulge in further discussion over this with you. You clearly made an incorrect statement and are now using silly excuses to cover up.

[vineshvk]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@Light Bearer

It’s was hard to prove/justify one God and this person is bringing multiple gods into the picture. This is what I call throwing pipe wrench into the equation.

If u can believe in one god then extrapolating, no body stops u from believing multiple gods then.

[narayan]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@Sadiyah

Below is your exact initial statement:

You're the one who specifically stated that taking interest would make one non-Muslim. I want you to provide reference to back up your claim. Unless you were mocking Islam and thought it's funny to come up with silly statements, which is then very shameful and certainly a shallow act.

I guess the question is -
Facts -
Taking interest - strictly forbidden
Idol Worship - strictly forbidden.

Statement -
Take interst you are still Muslim.

Inference -
Do Idol worship you are still Muslim.

Is the inference True or false?

[Hahahaha]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@goldenAsif

Correct me someone if I am wrong but I believe that you can only be a hindu or jew by birth. You can't convert from another religion to Hinduism or Judaism.

hmmmm interesting question that pops another question in my mind. What if a person converts and becomes Hindu, what cast will he belong too?

[Babuji]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@goldenAsif

Correct me someone if I am wrong but I believe that you can only be a hindu or jew by birth. You can’t convert from another religion to Hinduism or Judaism.

Wrong about Hinduism -

As the knowledge in Hinduism is not in a closed boundary, Hinduism does not limit itself to any closed boundary of land, language or race. In fact people embracing Hinduism have been there for ages.

http://www.shaivam.org/hipfaq.htm

[Babuji]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@Hahahaha

hmmmm interesting question that pops another question in my mind. What if a person converts and becomes Hindu, what cast will he belong too?

The whole caste system thing has been flogged to death, but its prevalent primarily in the villages where people are illiterate/uneducated and have not been able to break free of this. In the cities, you hardly see any caste system.

To answer your question, it does not matter anymore :)

[Hahahaha]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@Babuji

The whole caste system thing has been flogged to death, but its prevalent primarily in the villages where people are illiterate/uneducated and have not been able to break free of this. In the cities, you hardly see any caste system.

To answer your question, it does not matter anymore :)

Ok that would mean that the Hindu religion is modified with time if I may say so. Other practices such as Sati is also not very common anymore if I am not wrong.
Now I have a difficulty understanding God so I am not taking the side of any religion here. I just have a simple question... If this religion is modifed with time (by people in that time or before) which is a very good thing, doesnt it prove that at least this religion is not exactly what the supposed God had in mind? (since it has been altered numerous times according to the needs of time)

[Babuji]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@goldenAsif

Correct me someone if I am wrong but I believe that you can only be a hindu or jew by birth. You can’t convert from another religion to Hinduism or Judaism.

This is a very recent case of a British priest converting to Hinduism -

http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IEO20060915064931&Title=Thiruvananthapuram&Topic=0&?headline=Anglican~priest~converts~to~Hinduism

[Babuji]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@Hahahaha

Ok that would mean that the Hindu religion is modified with time if I may say so. Other practices such as Sati is also not very common anymore if I am not wrong. Now I have a difficulty understanding God so I am not taking the side of any religion here. I just have a simple question... If this religion is modifed with time (by people in that time or before) which is a very good thing, doesnt it prove that at least this religion is not exactly what the supposed God had in mind? (since it has been altered numerous times according to the needs of time)

Hundreds of years ago, Brahmins were supposedly the only people who could interpret the Hindu religion. And they did it to suit themselves, which is why we had practices such as Sati & untouchability. Thats not very different from how mullahs interpret Islam & brainwash people.

Since then, as more people have started understanding the religion the interpretation has also changed.

I dont think God had any religion in mind. Religion is the path to reach God which has been created by humans. Do you really think that Hindus & Muslims meet with different fates when they die ? :)

[system]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@narayan

I guess the question is - Facts - Taking interest - strictly forbidden Idol Worship - strictly forbidden.

Statement - Take interst you are still Muslim.

Inference - Do Idol worship you are still Muslim.

Is the inference True or false?

This is false.
Idol worship is Shirk Akbar, and falls under the unforgiveable sin, so if someone dies while comitting shirk akbar then he can't be forgiven. The only way to be forgiven in this case is to become Muslim. Committing shirk akbar throws one out of the fold of Islam.
On the other hand interest is a major sin (Kabeerah), which CAN be forgiven. And the forgiveness part is up to Allah, He can forgive if He so wishes otherwise that person will be punished for that sin either in this life or in the hereafter. If one is punished in this life then that sin is cleared from the account, if not then the punishment in the hereafter will be severe.
Likewise good deeds can be rewarded in this life or the hereafter, and if they are rewarded in this life then that account becomes settled. And this is what Allah does with the non-Muslims, He clears their accounts in this life so that they come with no good deeds on the Day of Judgement.

[Hahahaha]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@Babuji

Hundreds of years ago, Brahmins were supposedly the only people who could interpret the Hindu religion. And they did it to suit themselves, which is why we had practices such as Sati & untouchability. Thats not very different from how mullahs interpret Islam & brainwash people.

Since then, as more people have started understanding the religion the interpretation has also changed.

I dont think God had any religion in mind. Religion is the path to reach God which has been created by humans. Do you really think that Hindus & Muslims meet with different fates when they die ? :)

To answer your question.. no I dont :)
Also, do you think its possible that some practices being performed by Hindus today are not what the religion prescribes but a misinterpretation which will hopefully be corrected in the future. Shouldnt that make one feel a little insecure about ones belief? :)

[narayan]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@sherafghan

This is false. Idol worship is Shirk Akbar, and falls under the unforgiveable sin, so if someone dies while comitting shirk akbar then he can't be forgiven. The only way to be forgiven in this case is to become Muslim. Committing shirk akbar throws one out of the fold of Islam. On the other hand interest is a major sin (Kabeerah), which CAN be forgiven. And the forgiveness part is up to Allah, He can forgive if He so wishes otherwise that person will be punished for that sin either in this life or in the hereafter. If one is punished in this life then that sin is cleared from the account, if not then the punishment in the hereafter will be severe. Likewise good deeds can be rewarded in this life or the hereafter, and if they are rewarded in this life then that account becomes settled. And this is what Allah does with the non-Muslims, He clears their accounts in this life so that they come with no good deeds on the Day of Judgement.

Oh, so thats the reason why in this life most muslims live a pathetic life, so that their account for bad deeds are selltled here and they can go and live in peace in heaven.
What about a non muslim, who lives pathetic life from the day he/she is born. How is their account settled?

[Hahahaha]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@sherafghan

This is false. If one is punished in this life then that sin is cleared from the account, if not then the punishment in the hereafter will be severe.

So if a muslim rapes somebody... and is busted... and goes to prison for that cause and does his time... He doesnt have to worry about it being a sin anymore cause he wont be held accountable for this action as he has already served the punishment. Similar logic could be applied for multiple sins... So what is God ... one who cleans after the courts in this world... punishes the ones who didnt get punished in this life? :)

[system]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@Hahahaha

So if a muslim rapes somebody... and is busted... and goes to prison for that cause and does his time... He doesnt have to worry about it being a sin anymore cause he wont be held accountable for this action as he has already served the punishment. Similar logic could be applied for multiple sins... So what is God ... one who cleans after the courts in this world... punishes the ones who didnt get punished in this life? :)

What you have said is not the Hadd punishment for rape.
But that's a specific case, you'd have to talk to a scholar about that.
Regardless, we don't know the weight of the deeds or the punishments. So it could be that some insignificant good deed wipes the sins of someone totally, or it could be that a small sin invalidates all of ones good deeds.
That we don't know. So Muslims are supposed to stay away from all sins even the insignificant ones, and try to do all good deeds even the insignificant ones.

[yo_wasim]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@Hahahaha

So if a muslim rapes somebody... and is busted... and goes to prison for that cause and does his time... He doesnt have to worry about it being a sin anymore cause he wont be held accountable for this action as he has already served the punishment. Similar logic could be applied for multiple sins... So what is God ... one who cleans after the courts in this world... punishes the ones who didnt get punished in this life? :)

Let me elaborate the point of Sher. with your eg.
Suppose you rape, someone and if he is punished. But the point is he should repent and never commit this sin again. Again even after this its left to Allaah to forgive the one who committed the crime, after repenting to Allaah. I have heard if anyone repents sincerely Allaah will forgive s/he.

But if he repeats, it then its reprehensible. The point of Sher is after he is punished will that individual repent to Allaah and never commit such a heinous act again. Its reprehensible in Islam(i.e rape) and is subjected to death.

[Babuji]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@Hahahaha

To answer your question.. no I dont :) Also, do you think its possible that some practices being performed by Hindus today are not what the religion prescribes but a misinterpretation which will hopefully be corrected in the future. Shouldnt that make one feel a little insecure about ones belief? :)

Its possible, however Hinduism is more open than Islam and nothing is really prescribed. There are recommendations and then there are interpretations. My belief is mine, and is not really dependant on a religion. Religion is just a way to express that belief. So there is no question of insecurity.

Thats the reason why even though I personally have been to and prayed in a Mosque/dargah, Church, Gurudwara & a Hindu temple, I havent seen any difference in my belief in God. :)

[system]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@narayan

Oh, so thats the reason why in this life most muslims live a pathetic life, so that their account for bad deeds are selltled here and they can go and live in peace in heaven. What about a non muslim, who lives pathetic life from the day he/she is born. How is their account settled?

That's pretty much the case.
A non-muslim is a non-muslim because they are committing shirk akbar, the unforgiveable sin. The punishment for shirk akbar is eternal.

[Hahahaha]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@Babuji

Its possible, however Hinduism is more open than Islam and nothing is really prescribed. There are recommendations and then there are interpretations. My belief is mine, and is not really dependant on a religion. Religion is just a way to express that belief. So there is no question of insecurity.

Thats the reason why even though I personally have been to and prayed in a Mosque/dargah, Church, Gurudwara & a Hindu temple, I havent seen any difference in my belief in God. :)

You are a Good Man.