Conversion back to Hinduism

[Afridi786]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

^Yah, your point being?

[ssingh]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

what i am asking is, doesn't taking interest affect your status as a believer or unbeliever in the end?.

[Sadiyah]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

USResident, I'm aware that he's a non-Muslim. Since he's the one who shared the idea, which to me sounded quite definite that taking interest throws one out of the fold of Islam, the onus is now upon him to present reference to backup his claim.

ssingh, one may be a sinner and would certainly have to answer for it, unless he/she repents and is forgiven (I believe), but doesn't necessarily takes one out of the fold of Islam.

[ssingh]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@Sadiyah

ssingh, one may be a sinner and would certainly have to answer for it, unless he/she repents and is forgiven (I believe), but doesn't necessarily takes one out of the fold of Islam.

sadiyahji, you didn't answer my question itself. A muslim doesn't become a non muslim by taking interest. yes....

my question is, will this affect your status as a believer or un-believer on the day of judgement?.

[USResident]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@Sadiyah

USResident, I'm aware that he's a non-Muslim. Since he's the one who shared the idea, which to me sounded quite definite that taking interest throws one out of the fold of Islam, the onus is now upon him to present reference to backup his claim.

Ok. Just thought I'd share. Thats all.

[USResident]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@ssingh

sadiyahji, you didn't answer my question itself. A muslim doesn't become a non muslim by taking interest. yes....

my question is, will this affect your status as a believer or un-believer on the day of judgement?.

Your confused. In Islam a believer is a muslim and a non-believer is a non-muslim. Seems like your confused here about all of them being different.

[Sadiyah]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@ssingh

sadiyahji, you didn't answer my question itself. A muslim doesn't become a non muslim by taking interest. yes....

my question is, will this affect your status as a believer or un-believer on the day of judgement?.

I don't think it will affect one's status as a believer.

[ssingh]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@USResident

Your confused. In Islam a believer is a muslim and a non-believer is a non-muslim. Seems like your confused here about all of them being different.

But according to umair,

"Taking interest puts you in war with Allah but does not throw you out of the fold of Islam".

Now the real question. Does taking interest is makes a big difference from the point of view of God (allah)?. If no, then why does your scriptures say something different as much as putting you in war with allah?.

[Sadiyah]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@ssingh

But according to umair,

"Taking interest puts you in war with Allah but does not throw you out of the fold of Islam".

Now the real question. Does taking interest is makes a big difference from the point of view of God (allah)?. If no, then why does your scriptures say something different as much as putting you in war with allah?.

I don't believe taking interest takes one out of the fold of Islam. Interest is something strictly forbidden, but it does not throw one out of the fold of Islam.

As for putting one in war with Allah (SWT), riba (interest) is something forbidden and an individual is transgressing the bounds set by Allah (SWT). I won't comment anymore than that, as I do not have the knowledge.

Bottom line remains one is not thrown out of the fold of Islam.

[justahumane]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@sherafghan

This is exactly what happens when someone doesn't know about a topic and pretends to know.

First of all, a Muslim can be a Fasiq. Secondly, sins generally do not throw a person out of Islam. The only sin that definitely throws someone out of Islam is shirk akbar. Thirdly, committing kufr and being a kafir are two different things.

You are saying that sinning implies kufr. This is the methodology of the Khawarij.

And it also depends on the intention of the person. If I eat pork regularly, but I know that it is haraam and I know that I am sinning then I am a Fasiq, I am not a good Muslim but I am still a Muslim, one who sins a lot. On the other hand, if I think that pork is halaal knowing that this is going against the Quran then I have committed kufr and I CAN become a kafir on that basis.

[quote]

This is exactly what happens when someone doesn't know about a topic and pretends to know.

[/quote]

I have already said that I m making my own assumptions, so no question of pretending to know about the topic,

[quote]

First of all, a Muslim can be a Fasiq. Secondly, sins generally do not throw a person out of Islam. The only sin that definitely throws someone out of Islam is shirk akbar. Thirdly, committing kufr and being a kafir are two different things.

[/quote]

Same muslim can be a munafiq too, does a munafiq remains a muslim???Now U can come out with a certain defination of munafiq.

ALLAH has permitted pork in some circumstances, but nowhere in holy quran HE has permitted interest in any circumstance. So according to my understanding ALLAH has declared interest as haram no. 1.

Now if we have a bird eye view on muslims, we can see that litrally no one enjoy pork(better meats available), no one drink blood(even non muslims dont), no one eats meat of dead animal(why should one?), some drink wine(in absence of its good substitute), but majority of muslims, who can afford to take interest do enjoy this dirty money. And this tendency force me to assume that majority of muslims today are not just normal sinners, rather they are the biggest group of munafiqeen available today.

Now U can say that I have no knowledge about the topic, but I have already made clear that these are simply my views and assumptions based on my own understanding of holy quran. Am I not entitled for it???

Thanks.

[Babuji]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@Sadiyah

There were two parts to your post.

Yes, Muslims are not allowed to earn interest. It's forbidden in Islam. Having said that, not every sin throws one out of the fold of Islam.

Now you've got to provide evidence for this half of your post. Earning or dealing with interest is a sin. However, I've yet to come across anything that says it throws them out of Islam. Given that you're the one who stated that since "Arabs invest money in western banks and earn interest, THEN they are not Muslims," the onus is now on you to provide reference to this claim of yours.

So you could do something thats forbidden in Islam (a sin) and still be a Muslim ?? Could you worship idols for example and still be a Muslim ?

And I am not saying "not being a Muslim" as being "thrown out of" Islam, its more about them not being "true" Muslims.

Hope that clarifies :)

[Sadiyah]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@Babuji

So you could do something thats forbidden in Islam (a sin) and still be a Muslim ?? Could you worship idols for example and still be a Muslim ?

And I am not saying "not being a Muslim" as being "thrown out of" Islam, its more about them not being "true" Muslims.

Hope that clarifies :)

Below is your exact initial statement:

[QUOTE]

Aren't muslims not allowed to earn interest ? If the Arabs invest their money in western banks and earn interest, then they are not muslims :)
[/QUOTE]

You're the one who specifically stated that taking interest would make one non-Muslim. I want you to provide reference to back up your claim. Unless you were mocking Islam and thought it's funny to come up with silly statements, which is then very shameful and certainly a shallow act.

[system]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@justahumane

I have already said that I m making my own assumptions, so no question of pretending to know about the topic,

Same muslim can be a munafiq too, does a munafiq remains a muslim???Now U can come out with a certain defination of munafiq.

I don't mean to humiliate you in anyway, but your lack of understanding of Islam is evident. There are two types of Munafiq and one Hadith clearly states that a Munafiq Khalis (Pure Hypocrite) has four qualities and anyone else who has some of these qualities is not a pure hypocrite. Those qualities include lying, and not fulfulling promises. I don't recall the other two but if you want I will find the Hadith and post it.

@justahumane

ALLAH has permitted pork in some circumstances, but nowhere in holy quran HE has permitted interest in any circumstance. So according to my understanding ALLAH has declared interest as haram no. 1.

Everything that is haraam can become halaal in certain circumstances. So hypothetically speaking if someone threatens to kill me if I don't accept interest then I have the option of taking interest in that case. Even committing shirk on the tongue is allowed when one fears torture and death, the Sahaba were allowed to do this and if I am not mistaken a verse in the Quran allows this as well. But this is allowed only in these specific circumstances. And committing shirk is only restricted to the tongue, and only when there is fear of death but shirk cannot be committed in actions even when there is fear of death. I hope you understand the difference here.

@justahumane

Now if we have a bird eye view on muslims, we can see that litrally no one enjoy pork(better meats available), no one drink blood(even non muslims dont), no one eats meat of dead animal(why should one?), some drink wine(in absence of its good substitute), but majority of muslims, who can afford to take interest do enjoy this dirty money. And this tendency force me to assume that majority of muslims today are not just normal sinners, rather they are the biggest group of munafiqeen available today.

You can call someone a Kafir based on the actions you see from them, but taking of interest is not kufr in itself. Someone professing to be a muslim may be a kafir or a munafiq for some reason but to call him/her a kafir just for taking interest is not correct. Dealing in interest is a major sin, but the unforgivable sin is dying in the state of committing shirk akbar.

@justahumane

Now U can say that I have no knowledge about the topic, but I have already made clear that these are simply my views and assumptions based on my own understanding of holy quran. Am I not entitled for it???

Thanks.

You are entitled to your own opinion, and if you are a muslim then you also have an obligation to seek knowledge, ie. find out what scholars have said about these matters. And don't propagate your opinions, because if your opinion is incorrect then you are propagating falsehood which is a lot worse.

[USResident]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@justahumane

I have already said that I m making my own assumptions, so no question of pretending to know about the topic,

Same muslim can be a munafiq too, does a munafiq remains a muslim???Now U can come out with a certain defination of munafiq.

ALLAH has permitted pork in some circumstances, but nowhere in holy quran HE has permitted interest in any circumstance. So according to my understanding ALLAH has declared interest as haram no. 1.

Now if we have a bird eye view on muslims, we can see that litrally no one enjoy pork(better meats available), no one drink blood(even non muslims dont), no one eats meat of dead animal(why should one?), some drink wine(in absence of its good substitute), but majority of muslims, who can afford to take interest do enjoy this dirty money. And this tendency force me to assume that majority of muslims today are not just normal sinners, rather they are the biggest group of munafiqeen available today.

Now U can say that I have no knowledge about the topic, but I have already made clear that these are simply my views and assumptions based on my own understanding of holy quran. Am I not entitled for it???

Thanks.

Nice argument. There is a difference between forbidden and unforgivable. Unforgivable sins put you out of the fold of Islam i.e. join partners with Allah SWT in worship, deny the messengers, deny the Quran as being the last message and denying the day of judgement. Or let me say, denying in matters of Aqidah are unforgivable and can put you out of the fold of Islam. Disobediance to the laws of Allah make you a sinner and do not put you out of the fold of Islam. You become a muslim by following a certain Aqidah first. If you follow Islamic laws without having belief in the Islamic creed you are not a muslim then. Aqidah is something that relates to Allah SWT directly whereas the laws relate to mankind.

[Babuji]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@Sadiyah

Below is your exact initial statement:

You’re the one who specifically stated that taking interest would make one non-Muslim. I want you to provide reference to back up your claim. Unless you were mocking Islam and thought it’s funny to come up with silly statements, which is then very shameful and certainly a shallow act.

Did you not see that I asked a question "Aren’t muslims not allowed to earn interest " which led me to the conclusion that people doing it are not Muslims ?

I am not sure how much more I could clarify this so YOU understand.

Sorry behenji Discussing with you is like hitting my head against a brick wall

My mistake

[Light_Bearer]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@anjjan

This controversy will disturb the temper for some time in future. Son has rejected Islam, whereas the father Ali Akbar, a known musician, rejects all claims for conversion to Hinduism made by his.

Ali Akbar's son claims to be Hindu | India News - Times of India

**Ali Akbar’s son claims to be Hindu **

KOLKATA: Aasish Khan, the son of sarod maestro Ustad Ali Akbar Khan, has embraced Hinduism, sparking off a raging debate and heartache to the 84-year-old father who has told TOI his son was besmirching his illustrious family’s name.

Aasish, who has already changed his surname to Debsharma through affidavit on August 19, claims his family was never really Muslim. “We were originally Brahmins and used the surname Debsharma. My great-grandfather Sadananda Debsharma took the title of Khan, which is not a surname and is used by Hindus and Christians… due to compulsions. We never converted to Islam.”

His dad is distraught. In an email to TOI from the US, where Ali Akbar has settled down, he said: “I do not support his (Aasish’s) choice. Unfortunately, many statements made by my son in the newspaper regarding the history of my family are incorrect. My family has been Muslims for many generations, and we will remain Muslims. It is a shame that he is trying to reinvent the history of our family and in turn hurting the past generation of our family.”

Aasish’s ‘reinvention’ is that his ancestors were Hindus. He claims his family even prayed to goddesses Kali and Saraswati. He said he was never asked to follow Islamic rituals or offer namaz and his grandfather had given Hindu names to him and his siblings — Dhyanesh, Pranesh and Amaresh.

“Staunch Muslims have opposed my decision,” he said. “They did not realise we were never converted to Islam. I would like to make it clear that the only religion our family believes in is music,” said the 60-something Aasish.

Ali Akbar Khan, who juggles his classes at Ali Akbar College of Music and three dialysis sessions a week with his rare concerts across the world, is hurt and the music fraternity stunned by Aasish’s claim.

The Ali Akbar family is not an ordinary family — his father Allaudin Khan is the founder of the Maihar gharana and his disciples, including Ravi Shankar, Nikhil Banerjee and Ali Akbar, have dominated the Hindustani classical music world for years.

It’s was hard to prove/justify one God and this person is bringing multiple gods into the picture. This is what I call throwing pipe wrench into the equation. :bummer:

[CheGuvera]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@Light Bearer

It’s was hard to prove/justify one God and this person is bringing multiple gods into the picture. This is what I call throwing pipe wrench into the equation.

No, more like hanumaan wrench…

[GoldenAsif]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

Correct me someone if I am wrong but I believe that you can only be a hindu or jew by birth. You can't convert from another religion to Hinduism or Judaism.

[ssingh]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@goldenAsif

Correct me someone if I am wrong but I believe that you can only be a hindu or jew by birth. You can't convert from another religion to Hinduism or Judaism.

some what true....but not completely. and who told people dont convert to judaism?...I think many have.

[justahumane]

Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

@sherafghan

I don’t mean to humiliate you in anyway, but your lack of understanding of Islam is evident. There are two types of Munafiq and one Hadith clearly states that a Munafiq Khalis (Pure Hypocrite) has four qualities and anyone else who has some of these qualities is not a pure hypocrite. Those qualities include lying, and not fulfulling promises. I don’t recall the other two but if you want I will find the Hadith and post it.

Everything that is haraam can become halaal in certain circumstances. So hypothetically speaking if someone threatens to kill me if I don’t accept interest then I have the option of taking interest in that case. Even committing shirk on the tongue is allowed when one fears torture and death, the Sahaba were allowed to do this and if I am not mistaken a verse in the Quran allows this as well. But this is allowed only in these specific circumstances. And committing shirk is only restricted to the tongue, and only when there is fear of death but shirk cannot be committed in actions even when there is fear of death. I hope you understand the difference here.

You can call someone a Kafir based on the actions you see from them, but taking of interest is not kufr in itself. Someone professing to be a muslim may be a kafir or a munafiq for some reason but to call him/her a kafir just for taking interest is not correct. Dealing in interest is a major sin, but the unforgivable sin is dying in the state of committing shirk akbar.

You are entitled to your own opinion, and if you are a muslim then you also have an obligation to seek knowledge, ie. find out what scholars have said about these matters. And don’t propagate your opinions, because if your opinion is incorrect then you are propagating falsehood which is a lot worse.

Let me make one thing clear to U that I m not a muslim, I m a kafir.

I believe in one GOD/ALLAH, but I dont believe in ANY messenger of ALLAH or any divine book.

I have read ur views with lot of interest. I feel that technically U are right. But at the same time I feel that practically I m right. ALLAH is very clear in holy quran, this life is not permanent, but life hereafter is. This life is a test for human beings, I m giving U certain laws to abide with, and if u pass this test than U will be granted paradise. And those who feel that this test can be cleared while enjoying the most forbidden means like copying, is just like decieving the examiner. , if anyone think its okay to do this, than he is most welcome, but I m definetely not of his views.

I have been arguing over this subject of enjoying intersest with my muslims friends for long, not so surprisingly their views are same as urs.

Anyways, ALLAH knows best.

Thanks