Re: Concept of honor and respect
Yaar, Somebody get these people like Reza Pahalvi checked. Sirjee.. If there are honor killings in India, that doesn't justify honor killings in Pakistan. Or blinkers are so strong that you can't see truth any more, just want to justify it somehow.
Honor Killing in india is equal to murder and that's the way person will be prosecuted, and that's a national policy issue not a caste or religious decision.
Re: Concept of honor and respect
Sirjee, if you take your head out of Quaran and look at the world sometimes, its changing.
Let me try to get the logic right.
Yaar isko koi smajhao, bahut mar gaye, bahut marengey if we keep putting faulty interpetations as GOD’s will..
Re: Concept of honor and respect
What rubbish!
Tell us how the prominent Sikh leader got away with the honour killing of her daughter?
**‘Honour killing’ casts medieval shadow over India **](http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4093632,00.html)
Or:-
As defined by UNICEF - Husbands often engineer an “accident” (frequently the bursting of a kitchen stove) when they feel the obligatory marriage dowry (gifts from in-laws) is not enough. In India, it is estimated that more than 5,000 women are killed each year because their in-laws consider their dowries inadequate. A tiny percentage of their murderers are brought to justice](http://www.vday.org/contents/violence/glossary/dowry)
Re: Concept of honor and respect
^ rahul, i never said it was the woman's fault, i merely stated that rape (alsmot always) is a consequence of LUST....
and i fail to see why anyone cud deny this....
and if u bring forward movies as ur justifications, i dont think u really know where u stand....
Re: Concept of honor and respect
Rape is almost always done cause of lust?
Men and women get raped in prison all the time, and this isn’t just limited to third world countries. Why are they raped? Is it cause of how they look? No. It’s cause the people committing the rapes know they can get away with it. This is just an example of how rape is about power, control and humiliation. It’s done to make the victim feel like trash.
In Bosnia, we saw thousands of women being raped by Serbs. They didn’t care about what these women were wearing. They knew they could get away with what they were doing - it was a power trip for the criminals, and again, done to make Muslim women feel like garbage.
Rape is a weapon, a way to punish people. Why do you think rape is a such a huge part of wars?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4078677.stm
Take a look at this article. You have arab Muslims raping black Muslim women in places like Darfur … as a way to humiliate them.
Rape has nothing to do with lust. It never has.
Re: Concept of honor and respect
Mughal you are one sick person.
Re: Concept of honor and respect
Aejaz, you totally twisted my post and made no sense whatsoever.
I simply cannot speak on behalf of other religions, as I have no idea what their stance may be on honour killing. However, from the little that I know honour killing is not legislated by Shariah and it has absolutely nothing to do with Islam.
Also, by commiting a sin, one does not necessarily fall out of the fold of Islam. I don't understand how you got me judging or labelling people as Muslims or non-Muslims.
It has nothing to do with whether it takes place in an Islamic state or a non-Muslim state. Simply from the little that I know there is no such thing as honour killing in Islam. It is not part of Islam.
I don't wish to indulge into any arguments with you. I have cleared my stance.
Re: Concept of honor and respect
Neither Do I, Sadiyah Baaji, Neither Do I!!! Specially after your last most informative post, Yes I do believe you have Cleared your stance, Oh yes your stance is now very crystal clear to me.
Aejaz
Re: Concept of honor and respect
lol @ Reza posting obscure and outdated articles to prove that honor killings are popular in India.
...and pork-eating is all the rage in Pakistan
Re: Concept of honor and respect
^
Outdated huh?
Did Bibi Jagir Kaur ever get jailed for the honour killing of her daughter?
How many thousands of women were killed in dowry killings this year?
Re: Concept of honor and respect
when did “murder” and “honor killing” become synonymous?
dowry deaths are totally different from your honor killings…they are financial scams that end in murder.
Re: Concept of honor and respect
^
So I guess that Bibi Jagir Kaur, the rather influential Sikh leader is still walking free for the honour killing of her daughter?
Re: Concept of honor and respect
Armughal, you must have felt lust for women in your life. For your wife, for example. Did you ever want to rape her? What happens on evenings she has a "headache"?
Re: Concept of honor and respect
Technically you can’t “rape” your wife as sexual activinty is part of a marriage!
Re: Concept of honor and respect
If wife isn’t in the mood/has her period/etc, does she hav to still hav sex wit him? We hear all abt the womans responsibility, she shud hav sex whenever n stuff, but shudn’t he be compassionate and i dunno PUT IT AWAY for a few days ??? 
Re: Concept of honor and respect
Sara tell me really how many times do husbands and wives have sex anyway in a given month in a long-term marriage?
I think people here are making it more of an issue than it really is..
Re: Concept of honor and respect
Yes, you can rape your wife. Women are not always up for it, and not all wives find their husbands attractive either. Saying "no" once in a while should be respected, but not all husbands do that, since marital rape is becoming an issue that more and more women are admitting happens.
Re: Concept of honor and respect
Now the discussion has entered another face.
Who is leading in killing women for the sake of family honor, dowry killings, caste based killings etc? India or Pakistan? Great competition!
I know that any such case of murder or of attempt to murder is investigated under Indian penal code 302 (for murder) or 307 (for an attempt to murder}. If a bride gets burnt at home by any means, the Police are bound to lodge an FIR for murder or for an attempt to murder.
Rape cases in India….if they are increasing. No, it is a myth.
In fact the women in India are quite aware of their rights and more and more women come to report of such crimes in comparison to earlier times when many such cases were rushed off by their family members.
Media…has done a good job in India.
**Let us compare it to Pakistan or any other Islamic State! If women can come in open to imprison the guilty.
Re Sharia court….what sentence is given to a man who has killed his sister, wife or daughter for the sake of ‘honor killings’ in an Islamic State?
Are such criminals prosecuted under Shariat?**
I expect a genuine reply!
Re: Concept of honor and respect
Anjaan Bhai,
You are expecting too much, Honestly I have given up, and so should you, most probably this might be my last post here in Religion, and PA and also WA.
Aejaz
Re: Concept of honor and respect
Anjjan, I think you're getting pretty genuine replies here. You can look through the Pakistani constitution and every Pakistani lawbook, and I could give you lots of laws that defend women's rights.
None of that matters, because Pakistanis themselves don't practice the law as it is. Culture and rishwat determines how life is run in Pakistan, and religion, surprisingly, fits into some peoples' lives.
Now if you want to talk about Islamic countries and if you want to pinpoint them out as being the root of all evil, that's one thing. But don't confuse that with maligning Islam. If Islamic countries are actually not Islamic, and only call themselves Islamic, then I dont get why you've got so much beef against Islam?
You need to pick what you're criticising here. If you're criticizing Islam, then I don't see how you have any argument, because honor killings are NOT Islamic. I think that's been repeated like 100 times in this thread already, and I can't imagine how dumb you are really to not get that by now.
If you're criticizing governments in countries populated by muslims, or how the law is executed, etc etc, then I think you've already got the support from muslims on this board that more needs to be done to solve the problem of honor killings in Pakistan. What we often forget is to look at the progress that is going on. I think Musharraf's move to crack down on honor killings by instating a punishment of death is a good one. I can only hope he carries through, and the next few years will show whether the law is actually applied or not.
Oh and also, can we stop comparing India and Pakistan when it comes to which countries does more honor killings?
Don't bring in competition, until you have statistics on the table. I don't see any formal stats here. And chances are, even if you did bring the stats, it wouldn't matter, because they're not going to be 100 percent accurate anyway, since so many people will commit honor killings and then of course, deny they did them.
In Sharia court, if someone commits honor killings, then they are treated as a murderer. And the punishment of a murderer is death = capital punishment. That's how the religion deals with it. Keep in mind that pretty much no government out there is technically applying the real Shariat in their government, even though they may say they have a Shariat government. So, in reality, what happens is some people get convicted for the crime of honor killings, and some do not. Depends on the case, and depends on who is involved.
Really, anjjan, you are embarrassing yourself with illogical arguments, and also by asking the same question again and again and again. I don't see the point of repeating questions. Either you're a dunce and you're not understanding what we're writing, or you're enjoying people answer your questions patiently over and over again, which would make you a pretty big arse.
You pick which one you are.