I know that in Islam women have been given nothing but honor and respect and the same goes for our culture. At least for me, I was always told that my dad loved me a lot
But in Pakistani culture, often the izzat of hte entire family rests upon the daughter’s shoulders. If a girl were to lose her respect (zina or rape), then in most cases the only way for the family to get their honour back is to kill her.
Now my question is–in Islam, does the concept of family honor resting upon the daughter’s shoulders exist, that she is to be held under stricter supervision than her brothers? I know honor killings have no place in our religion. But if not, then why the intensity of honor klilings in the Muslim world?
Honor Killings are done in Hindu culture as well, and that's where we get it from. We, as in our pakistani villager counterparts, and villager mentality counterparts. Perhaps hopefully not you or me.
There is no place for honor killings in the religion. There is however, death punishments for adultery. But that's not for the purpose to save anyone's honor. The purpose of that is the seriousness of the crime of CHEATING on your spouse. Goes for both men and women.
And no, in Islamic culture, the izzat of the family does not rest upon the girl's shoulders. We are each responsible for our own sins only. Parents are responsible for their children's sins up until the age of puberty, and that goes for both boys and girls, so no difference there.
See that's what I don't understand, if we'r e only responsbile for our own actions, then why are we following some paindu culture that's only gonna make us (girls) miserable becoz we are obligated to be more "purer." Yeah we have to be good but NOT because we're girls, but because we're Muslims and it's what's asked of us, if that makes sense.
deleted: i dont want any generalized comments here, for either the paksitanis or the molvis
You know, the other day I was listening to this one guy - one of these religious shows on ARY and GEO, and all he was doing was talking about what punishments a woman would get if she did x, y, and z. Although x, y, and z are all acts that men could do, somehow he forgot to mention what happens to guys.
edited. When your own leaders are corrupt, as Rasullulah once said, then your whole nation can become corrupt. We have nasty leaders edited. Go figure.
PCG, you are the last person to point a finger at any religious figure. One, you have been known to "bat ka batangar banana", furthermore, its very easy for you to throw mud on some one by just saying he is sexist...the guy may have spent all of his life studying Islam ...and a VCG comes on and says he is sexist and wrong.....
Kaleem, I ain’t no perfect person, and I have no problems admitting to that.
However, I haven’t put myself in a position of religious leadership. And when you put yourself in a position of leadership, you are automatically opening yourself up to criticism.
As a muslim, I have every right to criticize my leaders. If they don’t do things right and everyone keeps silent because they’re guilt-tripped into thinking they’re sinnners, then the community will continue to suffer a bad image.
If you see something bad, speak out against it - esp. if its coming from a religious leader.
PCG, keep your language under check....
such crude language may very well be acceptable in your american culture, but our traditional pakistani culture and our Islamic religious teachings strongly criticize such language as u use, that too for molvis who r the religious leaders and held in high regards by many....
I didn’t know that Jordan, Turkey, and Egypt were hindu countries. Maybe because of their Hindu, legacy honor killing is quite an epidemic there as well. I wasn’t aware that India, or Hindus around the world were whacking their daughters for their family pride.
This is strictly a hold over from the tribal mentality of most Islamic countries. Islam relagates women to the status of possession, so killing them for some odd concept of honor is not uncommon in many Islamic countries.
Satti must have been imported from these backwards woman bashing Islamic countries…selling their daughters for a grand sum of $2 is also a trait that most islamic countries are proud of. Asking a women to practically cease to exist if she is a widow is also a big islamic trait…isn’t it?
Saathi, which horribly still exists, is not nearly as common as honor killing. How often does one read about Saathi in London or Cairo? When was the alst time Saathi was commited in Amsterdam? As for selling daughters for grand sums, did anyone read this story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/11/22/wdebt22.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/11/22/ixworld.html
When was the last time a Hindu council prescribed gang rape for the honor of a family?
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Satti must have been imported from these backwards woman bashing Islamic countries...selling their daughters for a grand sum of $2 is also a trait that most islamic countries are proud of. Asking a women to practically cease to exist if she is a widow is also a big islamic trait...isn't it?
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The issue was Honour killing and how quickly it was attributed to hindu culture!!!!! Everything bad has to immediately come from the Hindu culture.... At the minimum please do a google on honour killing and see what comes up. Mind you it it will be a shock.
Well SATI **was **abolished long back but how about stoning for adultery that goes on even today. And the Hurdood Ordinance is what you like Clap Clap Clap. Honour killing is in the same class
Does it make any amount of difference that SATI was practised in India long time back to the issue of Honour killings raised here.
I dont have time to dig up URLs for you or point you to the specials that ABC and other major networks did on India on how the women are sold and how the aid is spreading at an alarming rate due to prostitution and rapes...you can google it yourself. I wonder what Qiyamt se Qiymat tak (film) was based on....they must have borrowed that concept from muslims....nah that stuff does not happen in hindu society.
FW, go ahead put some water on yourself...you are burning or in the word sof our famous pir "jal gaye, burnol lagayie"
Did I mention honour killing is not done in India in some parts? You want an honest answer - yes there is. At least I am honest about it that this is due to the general backwardness of the people, Narrow mindeness, illiteracy and bigotry etc. What is wrong is wrong and no shame in openly admitting it.
All the religions do that stuff in these backward lands
It has nothing to do with the Hindu culture. You will be shocked to see where the maximum honour killing is - The Pure Arabian lands.
So my dear freind look inwards as to how to remove this curse from the middle east and South asian countries.
Putting the blame on some other culture wrongly does not help!!!!!
FW, please show me where I placed the balme on others...if you had been here long enough, you would have known that I have always said that muslims are themselves to blame for their ills...however, when some smart ass tries to describe as the religion that supresses women or degrades women...that person needs a spanking and I am always up to the task :)
Yes when some dumb ass puts it on some other culture sure you can spank them too. I will join you.
Was there any need to drag Sati and Hindu culture into this.
Repeat - General backwardness of the people, Narrow mindeness, illiteracy and bigotry , religious and castetist rigidity etc are the causes.
The clash is between respecting the individual desires to the family desires/values. Those societies who solve this dilemna do not have honour killings. Therein lies your answer
Honor killings have nothing to do with Islam but so called stupid pride...you cannot lump religion into it, when you do, rest assured you open yourself upto all the criticisim including satti, daughter selling etc.
