Re: Circumcision (PLEASE READ)
SS, I expected more than summing it up to the simple human nature. Man, why not play your part if you agree that this is simply a tradition. Don't you feel any responsibilty of correcting whoever you can as a member of the society. Raise your voice and shun wrong practices.
Re: Circumcision
No more need be said....yeah? If you have a need to opine abt this, methinks a new thread should be opened since THIS one is about male circumcision which is not a life-altering thing.
Mamaof3, why did you said it is not a life altering thing. None of them MGM and FGM is life altering thing but both of them are equally HARMFUL to the person. Don't make double standards by saying MGM is okay. Read my detailed psoting on Dec, 8th.
Re: Circumcision
Come on guppies, what are your thoughts on I wrote in my long posting?
Re: Circumcision
mr TG, um, its only dec 7 so i dont know what "detailed post" of Dec 8th you are referring to. However, when you say FGM and MGM, I'm assuming you mean Female and Male Genital Mutilation?
Circumsizing the penis, while I guess it could be considered mutilation, does not affect the life of the male. "It" still functions as it was meant to (unless of course, the procedure was peformed by a butcher). It improves hygeine, prevents odor and prevents certain types of infection. It is a very widely accepted and approved procedure in just about every corner of the world. Does it HAVE to be done? Of course not, its a personal choice. As far as it being "life-altering", never in my life have I heard of this....unless as I said, the procedure was performed by a butcher. But lets see, I have an open mind so if there are indeed life-altering negatives to the procedure, please explain....
Female circumcision TYPICALLY refers to removal of the clitoris. This prevents any type of sexual sensation. That IS indeed life altering and can be more closely considered to be mutilation since you are taking away so much more than an "extra" piece of skin.
Re: Circumcision
Circumsizing the penis, while I guess it could be considered mutilation, does not affect the life of the male. "It" still functions as it was meant to (unless of course, the procedure was peformed by a butcher). It improves hygeine, prevents odor and prevents certain types of infection. It is a very widely accepted and approved procedure in just about every corner of the world. Does it HAVE to be done? Of course not, its a personal choice. As far as it being "life-altering", never in my life have I heard of this....unless as I said, the procedure was performed by a butcher. But lets see, I have an open mind so if there are indeed life-altering negatives to the procedure, please explain....
Female circumcision TYPICALLY refers to removal of the clitoris. This prevents any type of sexual sensation. That IS indeed life altering and can be more closely considered to be mutilation since you are taking away so much more than an "extra" piece of skin.
First of all, there was a typo it was Dec 7th (can use a little intelligence), on page 2 of this thread.
My my, you no nothing of the function of the foreskin. That's why your second paragraph out of total ignorance. Same of false reasons. Please read my post once and ponder over what I wrote. What you are saying is just a RECORDING.
I better post it as a new thread so that people start by reading the eye opener from me.
Re: Circumcision
There's no need for a new thread. Please continue discussing the topic here.
Re: Circumcision
Mr TG, no need to get all in a twist here, I did not find your thread but did see it re-posted.
I read it, I understand the ramifications of circumsision - or not.
I'd still opt to go for it for male newborns. Aesthetically, its so much nicer. Health-wise (even if its only odor-prevention). And no where did I read that it alters the life of the male....actually, I happen to know a couple of males who have had the procedure done "later on" in life and they say that it has enhanced their sexual experiences. Not my business particularly...but for my sons, yes I think I made the right choice, I'd go for it again. When I saw my first newborn son, after the first overwhelming joys and studies of his perfection, I changed his diaper and thought that his penis was rather ugly...till he was circumsized.
Its a tradition that has been tried and used since the dawn of man. Its something that is socially acceptable and preferred. Although if you choose NOT to do it, well that is completely up to YOU. Religions condone it, but do not condemn those who do not...as far as I know. I mean could you imagine a God/Allah who examines you at heaven's gate???? You think foreskin (having it nor NOT having it) is the thing that will matter and open the gate or close it forever???? I surely doubt it.
Coming down on people for having it done or not done is just rude....as there are arguments, plusses and minuses each way. It isnt your business who does what to their private parts. Cause thats exactly what it is - private.
Re: Circumcision
S, the reason I started a new thread because most guppies, for sure, are not aware of my posting. The new readers may bein from the end
The posting is Very Serious and deserve to be read by all. With a new thread, anyone interested will begin by reading my post (look at the Ignorance, the way this thread began. If not performed then Allah will send to hell and the punishment)
Please my Request to re-open it and close this thread (We got to disseminate he correct information to the not-so-informed)
Re: Circumcision
Well frankly i never knew the story about circumscion however i thought Female circumcision is generally cultural (prevalent in some parts of africa) & Male Islamic.
However as there is no clear order for it in Quran, i think this must be left for personal choice, However please do not go on prescribing punsihments for not doing it. This has been a famous part time hobby of muslims. Quran does not tell us how to drive a car because thsi act does nothave any bearing on our salvation (rightly pointed) so probably circumcision will also not have it either. Lets forget and go on to some better things & leave it as a personal choice. Whosoever believes it SUNNAH should go ahead and whosoever does not should decide for himself. Clearly there is no benefit or loss of male circumcision in medical science however there are many for female (so avoid it).
Re: Circumcision
I've already replied to your PM and I prefer to deal with all such requests via PM to avoid derailing the thread. Whenever two or more threads are active on a similar/same topic, they end up getting merged anyway.
Re: Circumcision
No more need be said....yeah? If you have a need to opine abt this, methinks a new thread should be opened since THIS one is about male circumcision which is not a life-altering thing.
Male Castration means removal/cutting/mutilation etc of Testicular Glands (surgical/criminal/accidental) and not the genital organ itself. So female castration would be something like Hysterctomy i.e., Removal of Uterus.
Regards.
Re: Circumcision
I have to point out a couple of things here too, mr TG....
Yes God/Allah made us perfect and all that. But what kind of sin is it to improve upon ourselves as we see fit? Women remove bodily hair, men shave their faces. We go to salons and have haircuts. We cut our toenails and our fingernails. We remove cysts, moles and other harmless but unsightly things that can grow upon our bodies (YES I KNOW some cysts and moles REQUIRE removal, however most do not)....anyway my point is that "Mankind" is always striving to be more perfect. Nothing wrong with that and its surely not something that will send you to hellfire for eternity.
Sadly, I think this is your situation....you're young but getting to marriage-able age, but are not circumsized. Your parents are concerned abt rishtas and how they would feel in this case so your parents are looking out for you. You of course, do not want a sharp instrument pointed at....well you get the idea.
Stand up for what you want and what you beleive in....but you dont have a right to come down on others for doing the same.
Re: Circumcision
...and doc sufi, we're talking abt the term "circumcision" here, not castration. "Female Circumcision" typically entails removal of clitoris while male circumsicion is removal of foreskin.
The term "female castration" amounts to the same thing as "circumcision" the vast majority of the time.
"Male castration" however can refer to a number of different procedures - from "chemical castration" where drugs remove any and all sexual appetite to actual removal of the entire organ, with options in-between which involve removal of testes.
Re: Circumcision
M, Ah ha, you seems to be out of frequency from the very essence of what I presented. Easy.
Socially acceptable? So many ills are socially acceptable in society so it means that one should continue practice it
Asthetically better? Who is to decide you or his wife to be? Remember you do not own your son body that you can do whatever you prefer without his consent. If you are so sensitive let Him decide himself (I am not responsible for anything decided and done by you)
“Although, if you decide NOT to …”. Well it is not my choice I am Afraid to mutilate what Allah has created. Who am I to change nature if there is no medical condition exist.
Gate stuff. 
I would not comment on your few males friends but I fully am aware about the anatomy of the foreskin. Simply can not agree that the Creator was not a better designer. Got it 
Unfortunately, the argument “It is not your business what people do to their private parts …”, is also made wayward. First of all I am not talking about people (Adults) I am talking about Kids. I am clearing the terrible misconceptions people have about the issue. From going to hell, to not being a muslim and what not … and asking people to refrain from this harmful traditional practice which nullify the purpose it was created by the PERFECTIONIST, as HE claims and HE indeed is beyond our imagination. Tell me have not you tried to correct someone who you thinks is wrong and need to be informed?
Easy man if you still do not see the reason, don’t agree. People who would be convinced will surely be convinced.
My message, "Stop the cruelty "
Re: Circumcision
Yes God/Allah made us perfect and all that. But what kind of sin is it to improve upon ourselves as we see fit? Women remove bodily hair, men shave their faces. We go to salons and have haircuts. We cut our toenails and our fingernails. We remove cysts, moles and other harmless but unsightly things that can grow upon our bodies (YES I KNOW some cysts and moles REQUIRE removal, however most do not)....anyway my point is that "Mankind" is always striving to be more perfect. Nothing wrong with that and its surely not something that will send you to hellfire for eternity.
Sadly, I think this is your situation....you're young but getting to marriage-able age, but are not circumsized. Your parents are concerned abt rishtas and how they would feel in this case so your parents are looking out for you. You of course, do not want a sharp instrument pointed at....well you get the idea.
Stand up for what you want and what you beleive in....but you dont have a right to come down on others for doing the same.
Sir, as I mentioned in your previous post you are getting derailed too often. This post is again an example.
What really is a healthy conversation is I agree with these points and reasoning and I disagree with those. Adding needless additions is besides the point
My last response to you. Most probably I may be much senior to you. Have you had reasonable life experience with humans they you definitely would be able to see the person behind the writing.
Many thanks for you kind feedback.
Re: Circumcision (PLEASE READ)
With regard to female circumcision, it is a question on which there is controversy among scholars. As for the hadith that speak of it, none aspires to a degree of authenticity which would indicate that female circumcision is obligatory. One of the hadith often quoted on the subject is that of Umm Attia, a woman who performed female circumcision. It is said that God’s Messenger (pbuh) told her, “Umm Attia, restrict yourself to a sniff and do not overstrain; (this way), it is more pleasant in appearance and more satisfactory to the husband”. Al-Iraqi in Al-mughni 'an al-asfaar says: “The hadith concerning Umm Attia is quoted by Al-Hakim and Al-Baihaqi, on the authority of Al- Dhahhak ibn Qais. Abu Dawood mentions something similar to this hadith of Umm Attia, and both versions are lacking in authenticity”.
As Abu Dawood quotes it, the hadith says: “Do not overstrain; that is more pleasant for the woman and more preferable to her husband”. Abu Dawood points out that the hadith is reported in its general sense on the authority of Ubaidullah ibn Arnr ibn Abd al-Malik.
Abu Dawood comments that: “Its chain of transmitters is not strong. Besides, it is reported not as a direct quote attributed to the Prophet (pbuh). Moreover, Muhammad ibn Hassan is unknown. This hadith is poor in authenticity”.
Quoted from;
http://www.ummah.net/islam/taqwapalace/fitness/circumcision.htm#h
Re: Circumcision (PLEASE READ)
WHY MUTILATE?
According to Quran, Allah "perfected everything HE created" (32:7), and alterations of nature are defacements inspired by the devil (4:119)
Has HE made a mistake (Naooz-B-Allah) by creating something called foreskin? No. This thing has humdreds of meters of sensory nerves, Yes (go and search the structure over the net). Why? Was it again, Naooz-b-Allah, some mistake. It has extremely sensitive sensory nerves. So it was there for the purpose of sensation. Pure and simple. Ppl who do harm to it are not guilty of Aayat 4:119 ? Think about it
Respcted Sir;
Does it mean that all the surigcal procdures & operations ever undertaken and undergone by Muslims are contradictory to this Quranic Verse? I guess not? Probably it is a misinterpretation of this Ayat and to forcefully juxtapose it on circumcision would be inappropriate.
Regards.
Re: Circumcision
However as there is no clear order for it in Quran, i think this must be left for personal choice, However please do not go on prescribing punsihments for not doing it. This has been a famous part time hobby of muslims. Quran does not tell us how to drive a car because thsi act does nothave any bearing on our salvation (rightly pointed) so probably circumcision will also not have it either. Lets forget and go on to some better things & leave it as a personal choice. Whosoever believes it SUNNAH should go ahead and whosoever does not should decide for himself. Clearly there is no benefit or loss of male circumcision in medical science however there are many for female (so avoid it).
MMK, so reasonable and clear posting by you.
Exactly, it is a personal choice. This should remain a personal choice by all means. What I said is parents do not own the bodies of their childern so they should not decide or thrust their decision. Later, If a person decides it and he changes nature, he himself is accountable for the deed. No one else.
Disagree on one point you mentioned. San (minus) Foreskin, loss of sensation has been clearly documented in medical science. Pls read about the foreskin, if you care.
Just tried to clear the misconceptions of the ill-informed. Are not we supposed to do as contributing member of the society?
Re: Circumcision
The term "female castration" amounts to the same thing as "circumcision" the vast majority of the time.
"Male castration" however can refer to a number of different procedures - from "chemical castration" where drugs remove any and all sexual appetite to actual removal of the entire organ, with options in-between which involve removal of testes.
Respected Sir/Madam
I would humbly admit that by the grace of Allah Almighty, I am a Doctor with a specialisation in Family Meedicine and I know what is Circumcision (both male & fmale) and what is not. Please do read post no 11, 14, 16 etc of the same thread.
By the way I was commenting upon your post and wanted to clarify that Female Circumcision is not equivalent to castration.
Regards.
Re: Circumcision (PLEASE READ)
My question to you Mr Thinkinguy is how far do you intend to go with your reasoning of "MUTILATION"
As we all know all girls get (as you so clearly put it) "mutilated" on their wedding night.
**I don't see any one objecting to that imperfection??????:( **