Hello Guppies,
I have heard from many Islamic scholars back home that those who dont get it go to hell and should be punished. Is it true? How important it is for a boy to get it done and at what age? Lot of young kids are not getting circumcized in the west these days.. why?
Re: Circumcision
According to the Hanafi school it is a confirmed sunna (sunna mu’akkada) for circumcision to be performed for a new born [male] as well as a person who accepts Islam .According to other schools it is wajib.(Raddal-Muhtarv.7 p.342 Dar al-Fikr1995)
Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) said: “The practices related to Fitrah (natural human ways) are five: Circumcision, shaving the pubic hair, trimming the moustache, pairing the nails and removing the hair of the armpits.” - Sahih al-Bukhari
Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) said: “Circumcision is Sunnah for men and an honour for women” - Musnad Ahmad, Al-Bayhaqi
Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) also said: “Whoever accepts Islam should have his circumcision performed.” - Talkhis al-Habir
In one hadith in Musnad Ahmad the words “get rid of the hair of disbelief and perform circumcision” have been recorded.
The practice of circumcision is one of the salient features (sha`a’ir) of the religion of Islam. It is from amongst those things that Rasulullah(sallallahu alayhi wasallam) encouraged his ummah to follow the way (millah) of Hadrat Ibrahim (alayhis salam) in. Hadrat Ibrahim (alayhis salam) was the first person to be circumcised at the age of 80.(Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim)
Besides the above, circumcision also carries numerous physical benefits .It also prevents many illnesses.
Furthermore circumcision is an important aspect of taharah (cleanliness), which is so strongly emphasised in Islam, for when the foreskin is not removed, urine and other secretions can collect under the folded skin. This area can become the site of very painful infections from bacterial growth and the minor operation of circumcision greatly simplifies basic hygiene for men and boys. “Indeed God loves those who turn to Him constantly and He loves those who keep themselves pure” - Qur’an Surah al-Baqarah
Hence it is a greatly meritorious sunnah as well as physically beneficial to perform this act. However it is not a pre-requisite for conversion to Islam.
Re: Circumcision
Hello quas
[quote]
Hello Guppies,
I have heard from many Islamic scholars back home that those who dont get it go to hell and should be punished. Is it true? How important it is for a boy to get it done and at what age? Lot of young kids are not getting circumcized in the west these days.. why?
[/quote]
If you believe Quran is the best hadith which was revealed in 23 long years. Then clearly circumcison is not in quran.
You can follow scholars/mullah/imam/father/rabbi and get your peepee cut, like they did to me. LOL! maybe they think God has made us incomplete and given them rights to cut body parts, WTF. However there is absolute zero chance Allah made is incomplete. 'He is The Perfectionist'.
In history this practice goes far beyond the time of prophet Abraham
Otherwise its only matter of choice, no bindings from Allah.
Cheers
Re: Circumcision
So, I'm assuming you dont follow the hadiths, so how do you pray?
Re: Circumcision
Salam Afridi
[quote]
So, I'm assuming you dont follow the hadiths, so how do you pray?
[/quote]
You are free to conjecture thats what the majority does, makes no difference to me.
I am not a hadith rejector however I accept the hadith that has been qualified by the Quran, for me there is no such thing that "a hadith qualifies the Quran.
Furthermore your question is incomplete, unless you elaborate your question in a proper manner for reasons to understand. Theres no point to reply.
Re: Circumcision
truthfinder you are whole alot of confused ...
fist of all circumcision is a sunnah and our holy prophet (PBUH) was naturally
circumcised by birth.... and now
you are telling me that you dont believe hadith that is not qulified by quran ...
well tell me how hadith reached us ... well through Sahabah(R.A) who gave their
knowledge to ppl you call mullahs .. and that was no ordinary knowledge ..that
was the whole elaboration of religion .. that was collected directly from sahabah
by Imams ... who got the sanad for every hadith they recieved (it means that
they met the ppl who actually were present there when Prophet(PBUH) was
saying it and those sahabah(R.A) gave testimony and passed it on and was
called sanad) that proves the authenticity of hadith .. and they passed it on in the
form of a book nowdays called sahih bukhari ,sahih Muslim etc ... if you dont
believe that sahih bukhari etc is true that means you think that all imams who
collected them are not telling the truth ... your one word makes the whole chain
up to prophet (PBUH) nauzubillah liars ...
and then you say that you believe quran
how quran reached us ..... Allah didnt descended from sky to hand you over with
a copy of Quran ... The whole quran that you hold in your hand was orally said by
Prophet (PBUH) and written by sahabah ... if you think that all that chain is bunch
of lies nauzubillah .. then you should also not believe in quran ....
if youstill believe that quran is the only thing through which you will find the way .
.. then tell me where is it written in quran that circumcision is prohibited...
this proves that all things are not described in detail in quran ... you need hadith
for further info
and if you still say that hadith should qualify quran (by that you mean everything
said in hadith should also be present in quran) .. then my friend talking with
you would be like banging your head with a brick wall
thank you
Re: Circumcision
this proves that all things are not described in detail in quran ... you need hadith
for further info
and if you still say that hadith should qualify quran (by that you mean everything
said in hadith should also be present in quran) .. then my friend talking with
you would be like banging your head with a brick wall
thank you
So you are saying God send His words incomplete and we the mortal men were capable enough to complete His words what God forget to mention.
If you believe Quran is the word of God then it "is" complete without any ifs, buts and maybes or any kind of additional explanation from us human kinds who are notoriously famous from bending the truth for our own benefit.
If God is perfect then his words are perfect as well. It's your choice take it as it is or leave it.
Re: Circumcision
^ f God was to explain everything in one book, then how many pages do u think that book wud have????
plus, if only the book was to be followed, what purpose did prophets serve????
Re: Circumcision
Assalam-o-Alaikum to all Gup-Shup guys
It is my first post to this interesting forum. Regarding circumcisionm let it be known that it is not 'FARZ' or 'WAJIB', but it is a practice which was highly recommended and liked by Holy Prophet Hazrat Muhammad, peace be upon him. In this regard it is a *'SUNNAT-E-MOÁKIDA'* meaning thereby, anything about which some *'TAKEED'* is issued or recomended. So anybody who does not get it done will not be put to hell, or punished. But anybody who denounces it as a SUNNAH, will be dealt accordingly by Allah Almighty. Moreover anyone, who believes in the authenticity of this SUNNAH and can manage to get it done but deliberately avoids it, may end up in getting some sort of punishment.
In Urdu and/or Arabic, it is called *'KHATNA'* and the one who is circumcised is called *'MAKHTOON'*. Contrary to the popular belief, apart from Muslims, Jews also practice circumcision. In Judaism, it is obligatory for boys/men to get it done. Christianity on the other hand is not very particular in its recommedation and views are different in various Christian sects. The statement that Hazrat Abrahim (AS) was the first one to get it done at the age of 80 is probably a biblical belief. According to certain Islamic sects and Fiqah, most of the Prophets were born naturally circumcised or were *'MAKHTOON'* by birth like our Holy Prophet.
Now coming on to the medical aspects of circumcision, it is strongly recommended. Let me explain in very simple terms. The loose skin over the male genitals is called 'Prepuce' and the tip of genitals is called 'Glans'. When uncut or uncircumcised, this loose skin overlying the Glans, develops, traps or grows in it, a specific germ or bactera called 'Bacillus Smegmatus' which forms a dirty sticky fluid called 'Smegma'. Interestingly, modern research has postulated a link between the cancer of male genital and this bacteria. Moreover, there is small surgical emergency, in which, this loose skin may become contracted, following infection, forming a tight band on the male genital leading to retention of urine or simply inability to pass urine at all. It is called, 'Constricting Phimosis' and it has to be surgically corected.
So it must be remembered by all that Circumcision is a Sunnah, which should be encouraged both from Religious and Medical point of view. The notion that boys in west are not getting it done, is probably becuase of monitary reasons and not religious or medical. One thing more, the best age is still the one which has been advised by the Holy Prophet Hazrart Muhammad, peace be upon him, and i.e., 7th day, although some medical centres recommend it at an age of 2, 4 or even 6 weeks.
See you again sometime. Khuda Hafiz.
[EMAIL="[email protected]"][email protected]
Re: Circumcision
Although t must be noted that some hadeeth are za’eef ( dha’eef) and authenticity of them was considered low by the very scholars who compiled them additionally there were many fake ahadeeth that were removed. One can not be certain if all te made up aadeeth were removed or not and in general one has to be a little careful about just blindly accepting all ahadeeth.
Re: Circumcision
^ Yes. My personal view is measure the rationality of the hadeeth before accepting it, and also that any matter of grave importance that could decide between ones going to hell or heaven would be in the Quran, and would not be left by God to something as fickle as human memory.
Doctor saab, aap kya keh rahein hain???
Re: Circumcision
plus, if only the book was to be followed, what purpose did prophets serve????
You are questioning the wisdom of God, you are assuming that God could not explain everything in one book.
Number of pages would not change anything only we would have less Hafiz.
Hazrat Mohamed SAW was a messenger. As we say Rasool Allah.
Re: Circumcision
Salam Doc,
DR:SUFI
[QUOTE]
Now coming on to the medical aspects of circumcision, it is strongly recommended. Let me explain in very simple terms. The loose skin over the male genitals is called 'Prepuce' and the tip of genitals is called 'Glans'. When uncut or uncircumcised, this loose skin overlying the Glans, develops, traps or grows in it, a specific germ or bactera called 'Bacillus Smegmatus' which forms a dirty sticky fluid called 'Smegma'. Interestingly, modern research has postulated a link between the cancer of male genital and this bacteria. Moreover, there is small surgical emergency, in which, this loose skin may become contracted, following infection, forming a tight band on the male genital leading to retention of urine or simply inability to pass urine at all. It is called, 'Constricting Phimosis' and it has to be surgically corected
[/QUOTE]
How come more than half of world poplulation is uncut and healthy ?
Has Allah made humans incomplete ?
Do you deny the quran and accept the hearsay ?
Do you agree tht circumcision is something pre islamic ?
Re: Circumcision
Respectable Truthfinder
Wa-Alaikum-as-Salam
Sir, in your mail, you have raised certain questions. Before trying to answer them, let me assure you, that I fully respect your view point. Plus I respect and admit your right to differ. Over here let me further emphacise that the issue of circumcision is controversial both from religious and medical point of view. All those communities, religious groups and cultures in favour of circumcision would accept one or another reason to go for it. On the other hand those opposed to it due to any reason, have their own logics. I as being a humble man of Allah, and a follower of the Sunnah of Holy Prophet Hazrat Muhammad, peace be upon him, am naturally in favour of this ritual. This does not, in any way mean that I am trying to influence anybody, not in its favour. Similarly, medical reasons also vary and differ as to its recommndation or otherwise. Firstly, since it is a surgical procedure, therefore most of the doctors not recommneding it are Non Surgeons from communities with a predominent Christian community. Anyhow, they too have a right to opine in a way which suits their religion, customs and ethics. (By the way I am also not a surgeon. I am a Family Physician, in favour of circumcision). Having written thus far, now I would like to briefly answer your questions one by one.
Q No 1. How come more than half of world poplulation is uncut and healthy?
Answer. I fully agree with you Sir that more than half of the world population is uncut and healthy. It is because of the fact, that this includes women who do not go for this ritual. Moreover, more than half of the world population is from those religious denominations who do not practice it. Over here let me give you some very crude examples. More than half of the world population is not suffering from Hepatitis B, Polio, Diphtheria, Measles, Tetanus etc, yet most of the communities are trying to educate their members to get vaccinated as a precaution. More than half of the world population is not suffering from AIDS or HIV, yet most of the communities are trying to educate their members to for preventive measures. Similarly, more than half of the world may be uncut and healthy, still, we have to educate our brethern from religiuos, cultural and medical view point to go for it.
Q No 2. Has Allah made humans incomplete?
Answer. From a medical point of view, Allah has not made humans incomplete. Allah made a Man complete for his assigned role and similarly, Women are complete for the performance of their designated role. From a Male Chauvinistic point of view, only Men are complete and Women are not. From a Feminist point of view, Women are complete and Men are not. From a Philosophical point of view, Men and Women, both are incomplete and are attarcted to each other for this completion. From Religious point of View especially Islam, Man is both complete and incomplete. Complete like Prophets especially Hazrat Muhammad peace be upon him, and incomplete like the rest of mankind. This incomplete mankind has to follow the creeds and deeds of these complete Men for their salvation. Let me remind again that I am not trying to debate or reason with the followers of other religions. I am just giving my point of view. Whatever you have written is actually a belief from Sikhism. In Sikhism, man has been made complete. For this completion to continue as such, they consider it a sin to cut anything from this complete body. That is why, the true Sikhs, consider it a sin to get their hair, nails genitals or go for circumcision.
Q No 3. Do you deny the quran and accept the hearsay?
Answer. By the grace of Allah Almighty, I do not deny Quran and I donot accept hearsay. I agree that their is no mention of circumcision in the Holy Quran. But similarly, there is no mention of the way of offering Prayers, the ratio of Zakat, the rituals of Hajj and score of other things. But Allah ALmighty does command us to follow the rituals, orders and Sunnah of His Holy Prophet Hazart Muhammad peace be upon him. It is on the basis of these Ahadith and Sunnah that Muslims go for Circumcision and not on the basis of hearsay. That is why the Muslim Schools of thought namely the Fiqahs of Jafaria, Hanafia, Malikia, Hanbalia, plus Ahle Hadith, all regard and recommend it as a Sunnah very much liked by the Holy Prophet. Fiqah of Shafia on the other hand, regard it as Wajib.
Q No 4. Do you agree tht circumcision is something pre islamic?
Answer. Yes Sir, I fully agree that it is pre-islamic. In fact, it was probably recommended by most of the Prophets like Hazrat Abrahim and his descendants. It was being followed by the Egyptians when Hazrat Musa proclaimed Prophethood to deliver the Israelites from the yoke of Epyptians.
In the end I would like to further add that I fully repect the followers of all religions, cultures and communities. To add credibility to my point of view, you can find attached a small article on Circumcision written by a an English Doctor not in open favour of circumcision, but advocating it only if absoloutely necessary.
I hope Sir, that your questions have been answered. If not, then acknowledging my limitations, I offer my excuse in advance.
May Allah bless you and your family and let you find truth. Ameen.
With a lot of repects, Khuda Hafiz.
Re: Circumcision
our holy prophet (PBUH) was naturally
circumcised by birth....
What does that mean?
Re: Circumcision
Respectable Pakap
Assalam-o-Alaikum
Sir, Whatever, you have written, I was also trying to say the same but may be I was not that clear. What I really mean Sir, is that to punish or or not to punish, to exonerate or not to exonerate, to forgive or not to forgive, is strictly the prerogative of Allah Almighty. No man can say with certainty that such and such man will be put to hell.
Regarding Circumcision, what I want to say is that Farz or Wajib acts are the ones, which if not performed are liable to punishment by Allah Almighty. The Sunnah are the acts, which if performed, are very much liked by Allah Almighty and He rewards them with His extra blessings and Sawab, but if left and not done or acted upon, do not call for punishment. Since circumcision is a Sunnah, anybody who gets it done will be bestowed upon by more Sawab and rewarded more by Allah Almighty for the fulfilment of a Sunnah of His Holy Prophet. On the other hand, if anyone does not get it done on account of poverty, ignorance etc, although will not get the Swab or reward of the Sunnah but may also not be put to hell or punished.
To act upon a Sunnah is something else and to denounce, reject or doubt is an all together different issue. What I mean by denouncing is that Circumcision is an established Sunnah of Holy Prophet. Any body who does not follow may not get punished, but anybody who denounces, rejects or disbelieves it to be a Sunnah of Holy Prophet will be committing a sin and will be dealt accordingly, i.e., according to the punishment reserverd by Allah for this sin.
Moreover according to authentic sayings of Holy Prophet, anybody believing in a Sunnah and having the means to get it done, deliberately avoids it, is also committing a sin and will be dealt in the same way.
Since the Ahadith, propagating and recommending circumcision are authentic according to ILM-UL-HADITH i.e., the knowlegde of ascertaining the authenticity of a Hadith, or otherwise, therfore, we as Muslims should encourage it in our families. Regarding its recommendations from a medical point of view, please refer to my answer to worthy TRUTHFINDER and the article attached therewith.
With profound regards and prayers for you and your family, I say Khuda Hafiz.
Re: Circumcision
Dear Krash
Assalam-o-Alaikum
I hope you are fine. Regarding your query, let me explain. You might have come across babies with physical attributes different from ordinay i.e., more or less fingers by birth, presence of a few teeth by birth, presence or absence of certain parts etc. Similarly, our Holy Prophet Hazrat Muhammad peace be upon him, was born with distinct signs not present in ordinary people. First was the presence of a thing absent in ordinary humans i.e., a soft distinctive protrusion in between his shoulder blades, **THE SEAL OF PROPHETHOOD* or *MOHR-E-NABUWAT. Second was the **absence of a physical attribute present in ordinary humans requiring circumcision i.e., he was naturally circumcised. The honour, respect and dignity of the Holiest Prophet of Allah Almighty does not permit me to go beyond this explanation. I hope you must have got your answer.
Regards
Khuda Hafiz.
Re: Circumcision
Salam Dr.Sufi,
Long but it was nice reading your comment, I will certainly reply to it. Meantime you can introduce yourself, it will help me understand you more. Also how do you define word 'sunnah' and 'hadith'
cheers!
Re: Circumcision
Drsufi,
Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed reply
Re: Circumcision
Salam ARMUGHAL
The reason why the Quran does not contain information about how to cook a curry or how to drive our cars … etc, is given in the Quran. The function of the Quran is defined very clearly. The purpose of the Quran, is to provide us with the means for salvation. And therefore, since the way we cook a curry or the way we drive our cars does not affect our fate on judgement day, then their details are not included in the scripture.
**And We have explained to man, in this Qur’an, every kind of similitude: yet the greater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude! (quran 17:89) **
In this verse Allah says ‘‘we have explained to man, in this this quran every kind of example’’
Lets see what quran says,
Say: “I am no bringer of new-fangled doctrine among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear.” (quran 46.9)
In this Allah is telling prophet to say, "I am not different from other messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is revealed to me by inspiration.‘’ Extra bit of information we see that prophet does not know anything about the future.
It is Allah’s system on Earth “sunna” that He constantly sends messengers to warn and save communities before they annihilate themselves by following other than Allah’s perfect religion.
Also prophet has role to ‘warn’ the community as well as the world.
Thus have We sent by inspiration to thee an Arabic Qur’an: that thou mayest warn the Mother of Cities and all around her,- and warn (them) of the Day of Assembly, of which there is no doubt: (when) some will be in the Garden, and some in the Blazing Fire. (quran 42:7)
In this verse Allah is telling, that “We reveal to you an arabic quran to warn the mother of communities and all around it, and to warn about the Day of Assembly that is inevitable. Some will end up in Heaven, and some in Hell.”
It is this very ‘QURAN’ that has now reached over 1 billion human beings to save their very souls!.
**O you who believe! Obey Allah and Obey the Messenger and do not turn back from HIM <anhu while you hear (8:20) **
Here, those who were listening to the Messenger who delivers the Quraanic laws to them, as the singular pronoun anhu (from him) indicates. This confirms that Allah and His Messenger are not two separate sources of law to be obeyed, but that the source of Divine law to be obeyed is only Allah and only the people are able to hear these divine laws through the LIPS of His Messenger.
Finally one of my favorite verse from the quran
And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning). (quran, 17:36)
Do not accept anything that you have no knowledge of. 
cheers!