Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
Just a random thought:
What is so terribly abnormal about agreeing with someone frequently? If you and another person have similar views on something(s), does it not stand to reason that you are likely to agree with them quite a bit?
I’ve heard people bring this up in regards to several threads/posters. I don’t understand the issue with this.
We agree with some people more than others. Human nature, isn’t it? 
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
My simple message: if you think racial discrimination is wrong, then so is homophobia and discrimination based on sexual orientation. why its been hard over 6 pages for you to understand this simple point? yes they were refused because the owner doesn’t agree with gay marriage or homosexuality. he has every right to not be gay and not have a gay marriage himself if he thinks its wrong. but when you live in a secular society, there are laws which prevent such discrimination. next thing you know, someone can refuse to write a muslim name on a cake saying they dont agree with such names. you can say its a private business which can refuse service to whoever they want, but thats exactly why there are laws against racial discrimination and segregation even for private business owners.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
Well… At least this thread was a success, :halo:
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
If you can’t understand the difference between refusal to write a Muslim name and refusal to write ‘support gay marriage’, then there is no room for further discussion on this silly idea of discrimination. Everyone will get hurt for refusing something. Exercising freedom is good till someone doesn’t impose their ideology by hook or crook.
And please don’t lecture me on character of secular societies. Have you heard about India’s secular values, where Muslims can’t buy meat on Gandhi Jayanti, even if its its Eid day.
No meat-ing point: Eid, Gandhi Jayanti clash - IBNLive
You can easily find such hypocrisies all over secular societies, which you people bring to prove religious based societies as evil.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
this is not a silly idea of discrimination, its very much real and full of hatred. you are right that there are hypocrisies all over secular countries and thats why cases like these are taken to court so that such hypocrisies will come to an end one day. civil rights have come a long way in America. what was okay and acceptable 100 years ago is no longer acceptable today. marriage between ‘colored’ and white was also illegal but today its not the case. hopefully one day gay marriage will be legal in all 50 states as well. the only way hypocrisies like this will come to an end is if people take these cases to court and fight for equality.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
Are you associating hypocrisies with religion then? So, basically get rid of religions, and thereby we will get rid of restrictions? I wonder if you’re a proponent of the new world order…eliminate all religions and homogenize the people under one belief. Gays todays have many rights, they’re living alongside the religious, but it doesn’t have to mean that the latter should not be allowed any freedom at all. You’re in favor of the baker having nothing to customer having all rights. Live and let live is the motto the gay community actively champions. I’ll say it again…that while some members of the gay community might laud the customer, some should censure him for contradicting the same principal/motto they so heavily depend upon. Acknowledge this hypocrisy.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
baHs baraaye baHs…[argument for the sake of argument] … let it go guys, please! 
by now, we all know who stands where on this topic. let the courts decide.
cheer up…let’s enjoy iftaari and dinner!
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
This.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
Ok. Now we r counting frequency?
You know what is weird? Your desire to conform. To be sheep. Part of the herd. Not able to have one independent thought.
This is not the first time u have tried to say similar things wrt my liking bellas posts. I will say it again - when u reach her level of wisdom I will start liking ur posts
Get to work now.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
Or you could just accept her beliefs and move on? There is no need for you to enforce your views on a another person.
I think this thread has turned into personal spats rather than a debate.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
Dude, I don’t care if you like my posts or report them.
What we’re trying to understand here is the pov of the baker and the customer.
We’re NOT trying to understand what makes Bella special in your eyes. Koi is baat ko samajhnay ki koshish nahi kar raha, it is neither important nor relevant to the story being discussed.
Therefore it makes no sense for you to say things like the above. I don’t think that several people’s ability to understand an argument or their objection to it makes them extraordinary individuals. She is anti-religion. I tried to illustrate to her why this is a matter of concern/fear for a religious person. What has this got to do with being special? I don’t understand this periodic awarding of I dunno, certificates of overall worth?
The ‘sheep’ argument can apply to any group, not just the religious folks. It can apply to the masses like you and Bella. If you think that following a religion doesn’t necessarily make one right, then going against the religious grain doesn’t one right either. The same argument can be applied to you.
Also, Southie…get off your high horse. How narcissistic of you to assume that I am seeking your “likes” let alone that I’d even work for them.
Nobody appreciates your “kapishing” and your bossy commands of “Get to work.” Who the hell do you think you are? The master or dada abba of this forum to go about commanding people…commanding us “sheeeples.” You think you’re some friggin’ shepherd?
You constantly ask us to separate religion from government and science and marriage and what not. Islam is a way of life and it encompasses all these things and will shape the opinions of the members as it’s the predominant religion of the forum. So if this is an ongoing frustration for you, then take yourself elsewhere Lil’ Bo Peep…cuz you’ve lost your sheep…and they don’t want to be found.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
are you even serious? you are the one who was first commented about how southie likes my posts and that was somehow ‘ganging’ up on you., meanwhile you like diwanas posts and he likes yours, so should I say the same about you 2? did you see me making disgusting comments about you guys liking each others posts? you’re the one who seriously has a problem with anyone else with a different view. so if someone has a different view, they should leave this forum? okay. how kind of you. this post is not even in a religion thread, anyone can give their opinion here, including those who dont have any religion. its you who needs to get off her high horse, not southie whos already quite modest and non-judgmental. please look in the mirror before attacking others and see what kind of things you post.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
i didnt say religion has hypocrisy, i said laws are hypocritical if they allow discrimination towards them. please learn to read before quoting my posts. and no gays dont have equal rights everywhere, and thats why its necessary to stand up for them and fight for their rights. once again, if you thik baker has right to refuse them, then he also has right to refuse on other basis such as race. its you who needs to acknowledge the hypocrisy, not me.
i didn’t say religion must be eliminated,(once again you’re falsley accusing) but it cannot be used as a reason to treat others badly or to promote inequality. as far as this new world conspiracy theory, please dont bring it here, or associate me with such ridiculous things.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
Haven’t read last approximately 10 posts. A few posts ago, a gentleman said the following, and I paraphrase
Secular countries hypocrisy. India does not allow beef sale on Gandhi jayanthi even if bakra eid falls that day.
Let me first state categorically I am against even a 1 min ban. But let us get some perspective Here #DearReader](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=DearReader)
Beef sale is allowed 364 days out of 365. 365 out of 366. Or about 99.72 pct of the time. The glass is not only half full. But 0.9972 full. But our respected poster finds it hypocritical that for 0.28 pct of the time, or 0.0028 in terms of fraction, muslims are denied their right.
So as a Muslim, you whine when your rights are denied 0.0028 out of 1. But a tax paying citizen is supposed to be doing zyadathi and baghairathi for not being provided service due to his orientation. Thank you sir for showing ur hypocrisy. Zero credibility for ur position, I might add.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
The same gentleman adds - even if bakra eid falls on Gandhi Jayanthi, beef sales r banned.
I researched this. 2012 2013 and 2014 Bakra eid fell on days different from Gandhi jayanthi. Didn’t check earlier than that. So really a non issue sir.
Also my understanding is on bakra eid a sheep or goat is sacrificed. So come on sir. How is this denying the Muslims rights?
I hear the BJP is proposing a 9 day ban. Well. Never been a fan of right wing politics. That’s why truly liberal and secular govt is ideal. It is not perfect. In the beef issue, it is only 99.72 % perfect. Sorry about that.
Another classic instance of false equivalency. Lage raho munna.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
Also let me add , if anyone wants to eat beef on Gandhi Jayanthi, all he or she has to do is to buy it a day in advance. Complaining about this is beyond silly. It is shameful and dishonest.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
Okay I have no idea what’s going on in this thread. But I’m going to offer my opinion based on the local reception this news has received. So spare me all the sneers, malice and nonsensical one liners if you don’t agree with me or don’t even want to understand the point. I’d like be the bigger person and apologise to you in advance for hurting any egos.
Just to get this thread back on topic and invite more serious posters with different ideas and opinions, following is my understanding of the case:
Gay marriages are illegal in Northern Ireland, and this case is going to the court. I’m not a legal expert, but it’d be interesting to see how the court will punish someone for not supporting something that state itself calls it illegal. Although Equality Commission by default is obliged to proceed with any complaint they receive.
Secondly, I assume people are under impression that the bakery straight up refused to take order from the couple based on their sexual orientation? Wrong. The customers were not refused the services because of their sexual orientation - the order was taken (some say the cake got baked as well). However, baker simply refused to support a political message on the cake which which he found disrespectful (or whatever) to his values and belief, and ironically it’s also a message that the state itself stands against. If the baker was criminal for not supporting a certain political statement (not refusing the service) then where does this leave the idea of of freedom of conscience? Freedom of speech?
There’s no record of bakery refusing services to Gays in the past, however, it has refused to write foul language, draw offensive and pornographic images on the cakes. What shall we say about that? Seems like the baker would’ve objected the message even if it was requested by straight couple, single male or a female etc etc.
So this is bit of context for the overall controversy and the situation in Northern Ireland. Hopefully, it’ll lead to a healthy discussion and exchange of ideas from different posters.
If not, then let’s just say that I can’t be arsed about people who only see things in black and white order. My post isn’t to convince any of those poor souls. Just like I believe in freedom of conscience and freedom of speech, I also believe that downplaying discrimination is a slippery slope. If you allow one particular set of discrimination to cary on as normal, all other forms and types of discrimination eventually start to make sense in some twisted way. So on that note, lets see whether the Irish court calls it a case direct discrimination or individual’s right to freedom of belief .
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
^ Yes I agree … the defense of the bakers is that they did not discriminate … they would not put those words on the cake for anyone … so long as their principles are understood and respected.
Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action
Thanks for summarizing it @Jolie. It had to come from someone who was not ‘tainted’ by already being part of the debate here for people to see the point. If they still don’t see it, then there is no point in continuing this conversation.
I think the LGBT community is using this case to ‘legislate’ through the courts and make gay marriage legal in N. Ireland, but they latched on the wrong case to do it.