Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

[Shak]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@bella88

I wouldn’t go where i am not accepted either but at the same time, same thing could be said about those who fought segregation rather than just accepting to go some other place where they were welcome. Why do you think judge ruled in favor of a gay couple here in US and the baker was ordered to make the desired cake with the 2 male figures on top of it? why did the judge ‘force’? im pretty sure the couple could have gone some where else too but thats not the point. here is what the judge ruled in the case in US:
*baking cakes wasnot an issue of free speech, did not constitute part of the baker’s religious observance and therefore was not protected under laws that allow clergy to refuse to marry gay couples, for example. *
However, the courts considered that that right to free speech must be weighed against the rights of gay people not to be discriminated against, and thus far have come down on the side of gay rights against free speech rights.
My gay friend could go down the street, of course, to find another baker – but that’s a form of segregation and discrimination which we’ve long decided not to tolerate for other minorities of race and religion.

Can a Christian baker refuse to make a cake for a gay wedding? – Telegraph Blogs

I can see why there is arguments on both sides here (not here on GS as we can see there is pretty much just one side here, but i mean in US and europe) as one can see freedom of expression, speech vs discrimination.

As I said I am talking outside of what courts say or not.

If this was a public institution providing a service to the public then sure I would understand the court ruling but against a private enterprise this ruling is silly. I don’t understand why you keep quoting the law when its clear the court’s law doesn’t matter to people who consider doing something against their beliefs a violation of their individual rights. And as people who are running a private business they are entitled to that view. Whether its offensive or not. Just as I know a Muslim won’t be welcome going into a bacon shop asking for halal meat then this couple going to a Christian shop asking them to do this is either trolling or naive at an idiotic level.

Freedom must be carefully balanced. Where we force people to do things they do not like then those peoples’ free rights are curtailed. The couple would be 100% correct if this was a public org denying them their wish. But its not.

Hence they should move and shop somewhere else. It doesn’t make this not an act of discrimination, it just then is common sense for them to go elsewhere where they won’t feel targeted.

[bella88]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@Shak

As I said I am talking outside of what courts say or not.

If this was a public institution providing a service to the public then sure I would understand the court ruling but against a private enterprise this ruling is silly. I don’t understand why you keep quoting the law when its clear the court’s law doesn’t matter to people who consider doing something against their beliefs a violation of their individual rights. And as people who are running a private business they are entitled to that view. Whether its offensive or not. Just as I know a Muslim won’t be welcome going into a bacon shop asking for halal meat then this couple going to a Christian shop asking them to do this is either trolling or naive at an idiotic level.

Freedom must be carefully balanced. Where we force people to do things they do not like then those peoples’ free rights are curtailed. The couple would be 100% correct if this was a public org denying them their wish. But its not.

Hence they should move and shop somewhere else. It doesn’t make this not an act of discrimination, it just then is common sense for them to go elsewhere where they won’t feel targeted.

i am talking about laws and ethics here, not just my personal view on the matter. there is a reason why private businesses cannot discriminate by LAW. same goes for private companies and empolyers too when they are hiring. it is illegal to not hire someone only because of their race or religion. you can sue someone for that. do you think its wrong if a restaurant or bakery refuses to serve someone because they dont agree with their religion or dont like their race? if a restaurant tells a black person he’s not welcome, im sure he can find another restaurant, right? outside of law, do you agree that private businesses shouldn’t be allowed to discriminate? if it weren’t illegal, would you support a restaurant owner kicking out customers for their race? all law aside, just general ethics.
if you think they should be, then i can understand why you think the same can go for gay couples. but if you dont support one form of discrimination, then it makes no sense to support another form.
as far as that example of muslim demanding halal meat, thats not a good example here. you cannot sell what you dont have. if the baker didn’t have cakes, gay couple cannot demand a cake!

[diwana]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

So, anyone wanna try asking a gay baker to write

“Marriage is between a man and a woman”

[bella88]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

^gays don’t have a problem with straight marriage. its the other way around.

[bella88]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@Southie

There r two sides to this issue. Not one. Let the courts decide. Meanwhile let us examine what we truly mean by “live and let live”.

100% agreed. however, there only seems to be one side here on this thread, hence I felt the need to also show the other side as well.

[diwana]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

Gays do not accept marriage between a man and a woman. Seems a lot of education is required on what gays believe.

[redvelvet]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@diwana

Gays do not accept marriage between a man and a woman. Seems a lot of education is required on what gays believe.

Not necessarily, Diwana. They may not accept it for themselves, but could be accepting of other people’s preference for marrying the opposite gender.

[bella88]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

Diwana, thats absolutely false. just because you dont accept their marriage (or their right to even be gay), doesn’t mean that they feel the same way about heterosexuals. it’s one thing to not support gay marriage but to lie and promote such baseless false propaganda is absolutely wrong.

[diwana]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

^

Sorry, I know your English is poor. I never said they do not accept heterosexual marriage but they do not accept this statement as such and its value. There is a huge debate on it by itself. :sigh:

Anyways never mind.

[bella88]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

.

[Southie]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@bella88

100% agreed. however, there only seems to be one side here on this thread, hence I felt the need to also show the other side as well.

I knew where you were coming from. I was agreeing with the mast para in the link u provided. Which stated there are indeed two sides.

In terms of what the gay folks should have done, we both agree they have a right to exercise their civil rights. Clearly they r the ones who are adversely affected by being denied service. Good for those who would have simpky gone to another bakery. But the only persons who have a right to decide for themselves are the gay folks in terns of what their course of action should be. Nothing zyadathi in that.

[Southie]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@diwana

Gays do not accept marriage between a man and a woman. Seems a lot of education is required on what gays believe.

I don’t mean this to be a personal attack. So brother diwana, please don’t take it as such.

But ur claim simply is not true. It is a lie. Whoever told u this lied to you.

Cheers.

[bella88]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

Re-read your own post:

@diwana

Gays do not accept marriage between a man and a woman. Seems a lot of education is required on what gays believe.

you’re telling me my English is poor when your post is nothing but a lie and false accusation. gays have no problem in accepting heterosexual marriage, they would just like to have the same rights when it comes to marriage. thats all. you know that too but you’re purposely promoting false propaganda.

[Southie]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@bella88

Diwana, thats absolutely false. just because you dont accept their marriage (or their right to even be gay), doesn’t mean that they feel the same way about heterosexuals. it’s one thing to not support gay marriage but to lie and promote such baseless false propaganda is absolutely wrong.

I just realized after my previous post that maybe brother diwana was projecting. Also, I don’t think brother is naive to believe this. So that leads to the conclusion he is deliberately spreading lie.

Is lying allowed in Religion? Or is one encouraged to lie and spread wrong information for the “greater good”.

A rhetorical question- how many from the other side of the aisle will challenge the brother on this clear lie?
RQ 2 is this what was meant by live and let live? Seems more like Lie and more Lie.

[bella88]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@Southie

I knew where you were coming from. I was agreeing with the mast para in the link u provided. Which stated there are indeed two sides.

In terms of what the gay folks should have done, we both agree they have a right to exercise their civil rights. Clearly they r the ones who are adversely affected by being denied service. Good for those who would have simpky gone to another bakery. But the only persons who have a right to decide for themselves are the gay folks in terns of what their course of action should be. Nothing zyadathi in that.

absolutely. i have been trying to show the other perspective here, which seemed to be lacking.

[diwana]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

Let’s see, the name calling is continued but no credible answer.

Gays would go even that far to give evidences where they will support polygamy in order to refute ,

“Marriage is between a man and a woman”.

Let’s find a gay who agrees with it. Shall we?

If we make Gays accept it, then whole US supreme court judgement would be considered wrong. But not in Texas etc. because States were given freedom to interpret on their own also.

Like I said a lot of “so called gay supporters” themselves need education. Poor English coupled with lack of education and knowledge, yet argue…

This is off topic however. Later…

The thread has run its course I think.

[bella88]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

^just because you’re running out of things to say regarding this particular ‘cake’ issues, doesn’t mean you should start with your gay bashing posts now with false accusations. you dont have to support them, but at least don’t make up lies. I know you just want to have the last word here, even if its completely off topic and makes no sense even.

[diwana]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

Amused to see the desperation.

People come and bring fake support of homosexuality and so called liberties… just to argue and show Anti-religious sentiments, yet they don’t know jack about the issue.

[Southie]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@bella88

Re-read your own post:

you’re telling me my English is poor when your post is nothing but a lie and false accusation. gays have no problem in accepting heterosexual marriage, they would just like to have the same rights when it comes to marriage. thats all. you know that too but you’re purposely promoting false propaganda.

This. That is what the Right wing does. Keeps throwing lies till something sticks.

Ironically a guest in the Bill Moyer show stated - you repeat a lie often enough. And it becomes the truth.

What are the odds someone from the other side would challenge this lie?

[Kinzz]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

I Haven’t read all replies here. Just a question to those who support gay marriage. How is even gay marriage logical when they can’t have kids? The MARRIAGE is between man and woman.so that they can start a family and this is how its going on since forever.